Everyone's So Busy Freaking Out Over Riven's Buff...

FlashNeko·Aug 24, 2016·0 votes·604 views

They're completely ignoring the fact they're giving a single but substantial buff to Vayne, who's a hell of a lot more toxic to the game when she's strong.

She already does tons of damage early, mid and late game so why does she need more? And her ability to casually dodge poke/attempts to CC her/escape from her/try to close in on her is already aggravatingly high so why bring it into play more often?

Is this a Master Yi-like thing, where there's this perception that she's really weak at higher levels of play despite always dominating Gold Rank and lower?

12 Comments

Restless SlumberAug 24, 20162 votes

I don't think Riven's buff was needed as a riven player myself, but I don't think it should cause that much of a problem. She is a champion that requires you to be better than your opponent most of the time to win, this buff just makes her a bit more potent.

FlashNekoAug 24, 20161 votes

Yeah, as someone who alternates mainly between ADC and Top Lane, I don't have any real problem with Riven or this particular buff to her. She has set patterns to how she has to come at you most of the time so if you see it coming you can get out of the way or counter it.

It's just that it's just as much of you to read right as it is on the Riven player to know when to go in. And yeah, she can snowball pretty hard but so can any super-aggressive play-style top laner and she's nowhere near as bad as stuff like Ekko, Yasuo or Fiora (and I'd argue Tryndamere and Olaf are more aggravating too but I seem to be alone on those counts).

My concern is more that Vayne... doesn't really have any of those weaknesses and her numbers seem way out of whack with what the stated intention of her is, so I'm not sure why it seems like the issue is being exacerbated instead of fixed.

Restless SlumberAug 24, 20161 votes

Agreed

ApocalypsicAug 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think Riven's buff was needed as a riven player myself, but I don't think it should cause that much of a problem. She is a champion that requires you to be better than your opponent most of the time to win, this buff just makes her a bit more potent.

Treune81Aug 24, 20162 votes

Vayne's win rate 46%.Riven's win rate 51%.

FlashNekoAug 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Vayne's win rate 46%.Riven's win rate 51%.

What's the pick ratio in combination with that though? Because for every 1 Riven I see about 10 Vaynes.

Treune81Aug 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What's the pick ratio in combination with that though? Because for every 1 Riven I see about 10 Vaynes.

20% popularity: Vayne 12% popularity:Riven

Riven has both.High win and pick rate.So Riven was strong.Vayne was a little bit weak.

FlashNekoAug 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

20% popularity: Vayne 12% popularity:Riven

Riven has both.High win and pick rate.So Riven was strong.Vayne was a little bit weak.

So an 8% increase in play only sees a 5% drop in wins? That stills seems out of whack to me... granted, it's hard to tell what generally equals one percent in a game the scope of LoL.

magee101Aug 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So an 8% increase in play only sees a 5% drop in wins? That stills seems out of whack to me... granted, it's hard to tell what generally equals one percent in a game the scope of LoL.

Remember that vayne is almost as high of a mechanical champion as Riven is. However, only people that play riven often and know her well tend to player her in ranked, where as almost anyone will play vayne because they think she's OP or that they are good at her when they are not.

That being said, because vayne is an adc, she can be more easily carried than a Riven can, since she can sit back and avoid dying at the very least and just poke/condem things, then once her team mops everyone up she can go take towers. Riven is more in your face and thus is more likely to die than survive a full blown team fight, but a decent Riven player can take out 2-3 people with their suicidal combo easily.

KaiokoAug 24, 20161 votes

The buff affects her bonus AD damage on her Q. Considering Vayne typically at full build might reach 200 bonus AD we're talking about her doing 40 damage on her tumble when she's at full build. Vayne's priority will always be attack speed. 40 extra damage at full build before even calculating armor reduction is honestly more of a joke than it is anything else.

dominusxAug 24, 20161 votes

Vayne is a trash champion simple as that champion balance needs to be based off high elo. Not lcs not low elo either there are champs that do well in competitive communcation based games and there are others who just rolfstomp soloque cause people are bad at this game. Doesnt matter if she is dominating low rank we dont have to CARE about dominating low rank the only reason some champs are strong in low elo is cause people dont sit their asses down to learn the champs and then nag about them. I used to nag about Zyra alot and still do dont mind me... but i actually sat my ass down and played her to learn her projectile speeds so i can dodge accordingly you low elo players dont do that that's why you are low elo and your oppinion about champion balance doesnt mean shit imo. you can talk about matchmaking fucking you by putting you with smurfs yeh ik it's annoying but telling me that champs like Yi/Riven/Vayne/Trynda are OP just stop.

FlashNekoAug 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is a trash champion simple as that champion balance needs to be based off high elo. Not lcs not low elo either there are champs that do well in competitive communcation based games and there are others who just rolfstomp soloque cause people are bad at this game. Doesnt matter if she is dominating low rank we dont have to CARE about dominating low rank the only reason some champs are strong in low elo is cause people dont sit their asses down to learn the champs and then nag about them. I used to nag about Zyra alot and still do dont mind me... but i actually sat my ass down and played her to learn her projectile speeds so i can dodge accordingly you low elo players dont do that that's why you are low elo and your oppinion about champion balance doesnt mean shit imo. you can talk about matchmaking fucking you by putting you with smurfs yeh ik it's annoying but telling me that champs like Yi/Riven/Vayne/Trynda are OP just stop.

I'll freely admit, this may be my frustrations talking more than anything, as I HAVE tried to learn Vayne in the past (and kind of ended up feeling like I was cheating the other team when doing so) but learning how to play her never really seemed to teach any meaningful counterplay beyond "Hope the Vayne player is really really bad/tries to build her as AP/their Q button breaks" so I don't know if it's something incompatable with my play-style or there is something inherently problematic with the Champion's design (and past experience leads me to lean more towards the latter).