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I feel like Sion's passive should be buffed...

Shroom Junkie··9 votes·1,104 views

I mean, its useful sometimes, such as against immobile champions... but come on, most champions are mobile nowadays, and any who aren't have CC. Heck, immobile mages are getting an update soon and for all we know some could become mobile. But, on track, for the most part Sion's passive is pretty useless. You come back to life... slowly... slowly... slowly... there we g-- wait where'd everybody go?

Seriously, that's my thoughts every time I die as Sion. "Okay, about to get them, and... fuck they're gone." His passive just needs a buff... period. Not going to say he's in the worst spot right now - though he's definitely not in the best - but his passive might as well be there for extra farm after you die, or possibly secure a tower kill, or in rare cases, suicide for the end of the game. But even then, anyone who has CC that didn't use it on you while you were alive can just CC you down and kill you before you can do anything.

So first of all, as plenty of people have thought of... Sion's passive should activate faster. Maybe take 0.5(apparently it is 0.5 seconds) 0.25 seconds at most. Probably not instant, but, pretty fast. Secondly... he needs some way to get on and keep on his target. He has his speed boost, but he easily gets CC'd. Maybe he could have tenacity? Or heck, be immune to CC in general. He's already dead and his sole purpose while dead is to dish out as much damage as possible before passing on to the grey screen, so it would only be fitting, as he is the "Unstoppable Juggernaut."

Maybe he could slow his enemy with AA's? Or maybe with every couple of AA's for a small amount in a small period? Thoughts? Ideas? Feedback, dammit!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/20160108/5283737/cowards-o.gif

24 Comments

junglerboy165 votes

They need to shorten the time frame between dying and his passive activating. Right now it takes about half a second for him to turn berserk, and shortening that time to roughly 0.25 seconds would be a substantial help to him. Additionally, the could do something a bit more extreme, like causing "death surge" to reset its cooldown if he kills someone while berserking.

As for the on-hit slow, buy a item 3022, it helps a LOT, and actually works pretty well on him if you also pick up a item 3748.

Cremepie3 votes

As for the on-hit slow, buy a item 3022 , it helps a LOT, and actually works pretty well on him if you also pick up a item 3748 .

In my opinion this should be sion's core, with swiftness boots he actually becomes viable for most teamfights.

junglerboy162 votes

My thoughts exactly. My preferred build right now (in no particular order) is: item 3022 item 3748 item 3110 item 3065 item 1413 (for jungle)/item 3083 (for lane) item 1305/item 1306.

Since BotRK is pretty weak right now, stacking a lot of health with only a moderate amount of bonus resists is actually an acceptable build, especially with Titanic's insane late game damage on him (the Active easily deals 500 damage with this build).

TotalJerk2 votes

The Issue is that 40% CDR is so good on him right now combined with half his kit having no AD scaling and dealing magic damage. Ulting every 36 seconds is more appealing than powerful autos. Also he's a caster when he's alive, so building around his autos particularly isn't very good. Titanic Hydra is good for the burst, but Frozen heart's passive is worthless on a living Sion because he has CC up the ass already.

Ralanr3 votes

Actually those on hit items aren't a poor investment. Titanic hydra is an item that he can use as his only AD damage item since it has scaling health damage. Frozen mallet is stupid good with his passive (though I only buy it if I'm in his passive a lot).

Items like IBG and FH are great for reaching 40%CDR, but since neither provide health (I know he has infinite stacking health, but grabbing a health item is always a great option on him) they aren't as appealing to everyone (though I get them first if I can't afford to waste defense).

Slamurai Jack4 votes

You're missing the point. The purpose of Sion's passive isn't to do meaningful damage, although it sometimes does. The purpose of his passive is to force the enemy to move. You're viewing Sion's passive in a vacuum as if you have no allies, but you have several that can easily take advantage of the chaos that Sion's passive creates even if it doesn't land a single auto. It also makes overcomitting to kill Sion dangerous in 1v1 situations because he can very easily kill you even after dying if you don't preserve tools to get away from him once his passive activates. It's not supposed to be a really reliable passive because Sion is already so strong when alive, but it does add a little extra power to round out his kit.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFyiIFa8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-01-09T10:07:26.295+0000)

You're missing the point. The purpose of Sion's passive isn't to do meaningful damage, although it sometimes does. The purpose of his passive is to force the enemy to move. You're viewing Sion's passive in a vacuum as if you have no allies, but you have several that can easily take advantage of the chaos that Sion's passive creates even if it doesn't land a single auto. It also makes overcomitting to kill Sion dangerous in 1v1 situations because he can very easily kill you even after dying if you don't preserve tools to get away from him once his passive activates. It's not supposed to be a really reliable passive because Sion is already so strong when alive, but it does add a little extra power to round out his kit.

True, in some cases. But in others his passive is actually a liability. Sometimes as an ADC or a melee AD that can outdamage and lifesteal his AA's(like Yi), I'll just hit him when no allies are quite in range to get lifesteal and heal up from past injuries. Granted that's a pretty rare case, because usually you'll be helping to kill Sion in the first place, but its still happened to me before.

Honestly, Sion is a good champ but... he's not that good. He doesn't put out enough peel to be better than other supports, he has no mobility other than his ult so he can only engage every so often, and though when he does land his kit it can be devastating, its hard with the amount of time it takes to charge up any of his abilities besides E to land anything. Most people can just walk or dash away before you do any real damage(CC or literally).

And in laning phase, his passive is useless. It might as well not even be there except for a bit of extra farm after you die, or the red-buff Sion cheese. If he dies in lane against his opponent, even if he's so close to killing them, he's not going to because they'll just walk away. The best chance he has is to land his Q or E just before he dies so he can catch up to his opponent and land his hits.

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

i just farm minions when i die. its funny too.

Ralanr1 votes

Sometimes I just keep smacking an objective.

Olath Quortek3 votes

Slamurai Jack explained it pretty well... His passive does what it is supposed to do; zone control after death. I mean honestly... your dead... the fact that your corpse gets to do anything is powerful. Extra farm is winning; securing tower kill is winning; suicide to end the game is literally winning... XD When done right the damage in a teamfight is pretty decent and if they're using CC on the corpse of a tank they aren't using that CC on your carry and that sounds like winning to me. I don't think he needs a buff at all. His kit is debatably the healthiest kit in the game with it's balance of power vs. counterplay. On top of that, I'd actually argue that if they were going to buff him they should avoid his passive because he's a tank; you want people to hit and kill Sion and a more powerful death passive would make them want to hit and kill you less.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Olath Quortek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFyiIFa8,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-01-09T16:22:45.968+0000)

Slamurai Jack explained it pretty well... His passive does what it is supposed to do; zone control after death. I mean honestly... your dead... the fact that your corpse gets to do anything is powerful. Extra farm is winning; securing tower kill is winning; suicide to end the game is literally winning... XD When done right the damage in a teamfight is pretty decent and if they're using CC on the corpse of a tank they aren't using that CC on your carry and that sounds like winning to me. I don't think he needs a buff at all. His kit is debatably the healthiest kit in the game with it's balance of power vs. counterplay. On top of that, I'd actually argue that if they were going to buff him they should avoid his passive because he's a tank; you want people to hit and kill Sion and a more powerful death passive would make them want to hit and kill you less.

True, it would, and being alive after death is pretty odd but...still, I mean, he has no other passive because of it(I guess he has his W passive but that's pretty weak, even in higher level play).

Olath Quortek1 votes

Due to the power in his kit he really doesn't need much in the way of passive power imo. His passive is inconsistent sure but has a lot of potential... As far as his W passive goes we can argue numbers and such but at the end of the day it's an infinite stack passive; weak early for potential late. I think it's fairly balanced number-wise and has the somewhat interesting effect of making his health scale with skill as opposed to just with lvl like most champions; if Sion is playing well and focusing on stacking he's rewarded for it especially since his W scales directly off itself (and Cinder/Titanic too if you have). Does that make it good? Shrug... Not really... XD But I still like it and there's not much I enjoy more than being a fully built 6000 health Sion! >:3

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Olath Quortek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFyiIFa8,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T20:09:04.234+0000)

Due to the power in his kit

His kit is one of the flimsiest, most unreliable kits in the entire game. Look at Riven where her entire combo is pretty much impossible to miss unless the Riven player is a mouth-breathing r-tard.

Even his ult announces itself to the entire enemy team and has strictly terrible control. Basically there is no character with more counter-play than Sion. His entire power budget is way too long for a character with such severe limitations.

Olath Quortek1 votes

Yes, his kit does have the most counter-play in the game but that doesn't mean it doesn't have power. His kit is debatably the healthiest kit in the game when you compare power vs. counterplay. If your trying to argue that Riven has an unhealthy kit then I agree to some degree. If your trying to argue that Sion's kit doesn't have power then I disagree with you completely.

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Olath Quortek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFyiIFa8,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T20:49:30.029+0000)

His kit is debatably the healthiest kit in the game

How do you figure? there's a reason why he has such terrible performance in ranked, with a pick rate of 1% an a win rate of about 52% which is very low for such a low pick rate.

He sucks.

If your trying to argue that Sion's kit doesn't have power then I disagree with you completely.

His power is very low for the unbelievably high amount of "counter play"(Aka weakness) in it. Riven has zero counter-play and has a kit jam-packed with power (Two AoE stuns, MANALESS, huge mobility, incredibly hard to miss "Skillshots", etc.)

Olath Quortek1 votes

Thank you for proving my point? I mean when I say "Healthy" I'm talking about power vs. counterplay; strength vs. weakness... However you want to say it... I never said his kit was "good" nor did I say it was "better" than Riven's; I said it had power... and honestly I think your underestimating it. :P

Comparing his kit to Riven's doesn't deny his kit's power... it just shows how unhealthy Riven's kit is compared to Sion's... XD

PhantomGG1 votes

Sion is a strong champion right now, I always saw him as the more skillful version of nautlist with more reward if you can pull him off. as for the passive I completely agree, for 95 percent of the time if you died to sions passive, it was more then likely your own fault and not him doing a good job.

TotalJerk1 votes

He'd be buying Frozen Mallet if he didn't love CDR so much.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Number of buff ideas here

  1. Cut the time in which Sion gets up again after dying in half will help alot.

  2. And maybe Sion could gain an increasing movespeed boost ( 15%) when running towards enemies and have deathsurge remove cc and tripple the movespeed boost. have it reset on kills/assists.

  3. Another buff could be his decay rate not getting faster with levels.

  4. Allow Sion the use of summoner spells during his passive.

Gigahappytown1 votes

assist or kills will fully heal sion and grant another charge of death surge.

Sion is also immune to slows while in glory in death

death surge removes 1 crowd control instead of removing slows.

Fat Bastard GOD1 votes

I feel like this ability could be really overpowered, and underpowered. In general his massive CC isn't the most reliable, but extremely rewarding when landed, and same seems to go for his passive. I feel like his passive should be something that is very impactful besides "Oh, his passive proc'd, let's just walk away and any CC completely stops it". Yes, I have heard many people say he is one of the healthiest champs in the game thanks to massive counter play, but I think he is a bit too fair with some of his abilities. I do have a few small ideas that could make the passive more reliable.

PASSIVE BUFFS

•"Respawn" time is half as short as mentioned before (0.25 seconds).

• During this time, Sion is immune to all slows/massive tenacity

Aezanthya1 votes

DONT buff his passive.

Are you crazy ?

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mega Minun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nFyiIFa8,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-01-09T20:58:05.127+0000)

DONT buff his passive.

Are you crazy ?

No, why would I be crazy to buff something in the game with minimal to no use? I mean, I guess a pro could make use of it with lots of redirecting and baiting the enemies but... aside from that I don't see much how I would be crazy for wanting to buff his passive.

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