@Scarizard: You claim certain Champions (i.e. Fizz) should be more reliant on ultimates, right?

darkdill··1 votes·581 views

In the next patch, Fizz is gonna lose lots of damage on his basic abilities, but get a damage amplifier on his ultimate. Sounds interesting, but this topic isn't about Fizz's balance.

What I'd like to know is what you think about duelists who are ultimate-reliant. I presently can't think of any Champions who are classified as duelist material that are totally dependent on their ultimates to do anything substantial. As such, I'd like to know if that type of gameplay is a good idea or not.

See, my most recent Champion Concept, called Celes, is basically an AP/AS duelist whose ultimate, Verdict, brings out her true power when she's attacking the target she marks with it. HOWEVER, if she isn't fighting a Verdicted target, she loses more than 25% of her overall power against it, and becomes rather mediocre (this is INTENTIONAL).

For more context: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/aGuGtOEQ-celes-the-hand-of-justice

Good design or bad design?

8 Comments

disregardable4 votes

I presently can't think of any Champions who are classified as duelist material that are totally dependent on their ultimates to do anything substantial

I can. Fiora

Drunk Rummate1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nEsTjmTq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-22T20:10:52.346+0000)

I can. Fiora

Me too

Tryndamere - If you're looking for an extremely obvious one.

darkdill1 votes

{quoted}

Me too

Tryndamere - If you're looking for an extremely obvious one.

I've done alright without needing to ult as Tryndamere. Sure, it lets him live through team fights, but when 1v1 dueling he doesn't absolutely need it.

darkdill2 votes

Well, Fiora's ultimate kinda doesn't fit her, and Riot wants to rework her. Let's say she doesn't count ITT.

ravenswolfy1 votes

If you want to get nit-picky about classification of roles and about champions who are ultimate-reliant then we should take a look at what are the current archetypes of champions available.

Assassin Fighter Mage Support Tank Marksman.

What we call duelist are basically champions who have abilities +/- their ultimate that makes them extremely good in a 1 vs 1 fight. This usually means that the champion uses their ultimate during the 1v1 instead of relying solely on their basic abilities. But if we're talking about only ultimate-reliant champions as duelist then we're basically only talking about:

I would think these champions are duelists:

Warwick Veigar Tryndamere Talon Syndra Poppy Malzahar Fiora FizzJax Kayle Trundle Quinn Riven Their ultimate ability gives them a strong advantage in their favor, either through suppression, burst damage, or out sustain. They should be relatively scary to fight against 1 vs 1 in any situation if you're fighting them on equal terms.

But dueliest isn't an archetype anymore. Its more like a suffix or secondary role.

Duelists who are ultimate reliant are not bad but It really feels like there's no counter measure to be taken in a 1v1 if you're not a duelist. Kinda like a Rock / Paper / Scissors triangle.

So like for 1v1:

An Assassin should always be able to kill a Mage. A Fighter should always be able destroy an Assassin. A Mage should always be able to blow up a Marksman. A Support should be able to fend off a Mage/Assassin. A Tank should be able to fend off a Marksman/Assassin. A Marksman should be able to kill a fighter

However its not like that and we have multirole champions who excel in all those aspects if itemized/played correctly.

Fiora Can be an Assassin and a Fighter. Fizz Can be a Mage and Assassin. Trundle Can be a Fighter and a Tank Quinn Can be a Marksman and a Fighter.

So ultimate-reliant champions as "duelists" are cool but they need to have be able to have multiple roles otherwise it generates a flawed design hence why we have champions like Zac Urgot Anivia who don't excel and have an identity crisis because of poor kits.

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