Why Command Protect Needs to Be Buffed

JarodDempsey··1 votes·448 views

...even if only when used on allies. Ok firstly I'd like to point out that the math in general has been done since her early e was ruined in 7.16 and her shield while before was in strong competition with similar shields is now still in competition with those shields albeit notably weaker.

There are four shields that are similar to ori's:

  1. Inspire
  2. Triggerseed
  3. Eye of the storm
  4. Help, Pix!

I will focus on 3 and 4 mostly since inspire is used just as much for the speed boost as the damage mitigation unless it is mantra'd in which case it is more of an ultimate and triggerseed's shield is used primarily as a way to do damage and proc a slow instead of absorb damage which is evident by its 2 second duration.

Oris shield has weaker base stats(early when they actually matter) and lower ap scaling than either jannas or lulus shield and it also has a lower duration. She does however have a lower mana cost (offset by significantly lower mana regen at early levels), and lower cooldown (i will not include range due to ball travel time offseting efficacy). To make her shield more competitive it also offers a base resistance boost of 10-30 pts which transfers to about 5-10% extra damage reduction depending on how squishy your target is. At level 1 you're looking at an effective mitigation of 64 and at level 6 it's about 140 depending on the damage of the attack blocked this is vs 70 and 140 for janna and lulu not counting ap which by lvl 6 is likely to be around 20 for most ap supports. This makes oris shield slightly weaker than comparable shields although not by notably much.

So then why would it need a buff?

Well if we look at both jannas and lulus kits compared to oris they both offer ways to prevent enemies from further damaging a shield target. (Excluding ultimates since both janna and lulu have more reliable defensive ults) janna has her q which knocks (preventing attack, also good for peeling), and lulu has one of the best cc's in the game which is nearly a point and click stun but without the root aka polymorph. All three champions have a way to slow enemies as a separate skill. Because ori lacks meaningful stopping power her shield should be buffed to be a more viable skill in ralation to her kit as a whole rather than just being a way for most ori players to get a little more damage from a rotation.

I have two potential solutions:

  1. (potentially on ally cast) change the bonus resistances to 30/40/50/60/70 while the shield lasts and revert to current values while the shield is down
  2. provide ori with incentive to change up her combo while helping her e-related team play by creating special effects for certain skill sequences aside from q>w>e. This could be like e(to ally)>q(to enemy)=enemy stun or e(to ally)>q(hold)+w=ally blink

Obviously solution 1 is significantly more simple and straight forward and solution 2 may require a xin level gameplay update but overall I think it'd be a great addition to league, especially now that we have champs like ivern, tahm, and kal who can quickly move allies around. Additionally these changes (assuming solution 1 is on allied cast) would have little effect on mid ori gameplay as it relates to duels and self defense. The only real change to mid ori would be seen with her ability to assist engagement during ganks but this would really only give her the option to play higher risk for higher reward since shed have to put at least half of her kit on cooldown at once.

15 Comments

Śhunpo3 votes

Her shield already gets to be like 800 at mid-late stages of the game, and that thing is on like a 4 second cooldown. It's ridiculous as it is.

JarodDempsey1 votes

Her shields ehp during midgame is like 600 (~300 if looking at actual hp + factoring in added resistances vs not). 600 ehp in midgame is only a shield of about 20% ehp on squishy targets (less for tankier targets). At late game when building purely ap her shields ehp will be ~1000 which is still only a 20% increase to squishy targets. Tanky targets can expect to have an effective ehp increase of about half of that. None of this even accounts for the fact that every damage dealer builds some penetration which effects oris shield more so than all other comparable shields both due to innate weakness as well as part of the durability coming from added resistances. In today's league of damage this doesnt get you very far.

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

If Orianna is getting any kind of balance changes, it sure as shit better be a nerf.

JarodDempsey1 votes

She was decimated in 7.16, why do you think she still needs a nerf?

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

oh nooo, she's at a near flat 50% win rate. Whatever shall we doooo

Ori has been bordering (or flat out) OP for years now. Having as much utility as she does, with the damage she carries and the safety is just not ok, and it shows with her pro play pick rates.

As for another thing: Ori isn't supposed to have a shield equal to actual supports. She's a mage.

JarodDempsey1 votes

Ori is not op, she is easily killed due to having 0 mobility and only one (delayed) cc skill, people who think she's op likely suffer the same problems fighting soraka -- though less directly since soraka cannot directly harm them as much -- which is lack of appropriate target selection. If you let her stay back and fight thats what she'll do but if you engage her directly you significantly weaken her ability to assist in teamfights (since she has to reprioritize peeling you instead of attacking your team).

With regard to your "actual support" comment, the most recent riot post i can find (which was from 7 months or so ago) regarding her sub class lists her as a burst mage. Which is clearly erroneous. only her w and r have moderate ap scaling and both rely on a different skill to provide position which makes any "burst" unreliable at best and constantly delayed/slow. ori has alwyas been more of a chunker and never a nuker. Ori is clearly more of a hybrid catcher enchanter (under the old subclass she was clearly a disruptor hybrid enchanter), her ball innately provides zone control, she also has w and her ult which is one of the better aoe catching skills in the game. Half of her kit also provides direct bonuses to allies as well (hence hybrid enchanter). And if you think her damage is too high to be a controller then please build ap blitz, morg, zyra, karma, or sona and then get back to me.

scribbles7822 votes

TL;DR, I have to go to school in like 5 mins, all I'm gonna put here is that if Ori's shield is going to get buffed something else in her kit is going to have to get nerfed. (Preferrably W damage)

JarodDempsey1 votes

After having looked at her w and e damage (as well as a glance at q) I'd have to disagree. For her mana costs her associated damage is adequate especially when you consider how her damage is spread relatively evenly through all four of her skills (which means to do a lot of damage she has to use 4 skills which requires positioning her ball as well as the travel time mechanics -- her damage is fair considering all of this).

scribbles7822 votes

{quoted}

After having looked at her w and e damage (as well as a glance at q) I'd have to disagree. For her mana costs her associated damage is adequate especially when you consider how her damage is spread relatively evenly through all four of her skills (which means to do a lot of damage she has to use 4 skills which requires positioning her ball as well as the travel time mechanics -- her damage is fair considering all of this).

Well when I think of Orianna I instantly think of her super safe laning. She can generally lane about a mile away from you if you're almost any assassin and poke/farm with her ball which is something that needs to be considered. It's similar to the old Azir.

JarodDempsey1 votes

So what youre saying is that she as a ranged champ can zone you as a melee champ? Also, azir has a dash as well as significantly more reliable and quick cc on ult not to mention its persistence and prevention of enemy pass through.

nm10102 votes

it also offers a base resistance boost of 10-30 pts which transfers to about 5-10% extra damage reduction

Please for the love of god Riot make a video and shove it down our throats for 5 years so maybe people will learn how resistances work.

Anyway I hope you like excel :D I calculated out how much extra raw damage each shield gives to its receiver. I assumed standard builds for both (Starting items for rank 1 3 item build rank 5).

https://i.gyazo.com/9526a5eac665cb07e24f2fcc3c20fa25.png

As you can see Janna has slightly better shielding early on but later she has worse shields than Ori (without including +healing and shielding power). Ori would be absolutely bonkers with the changes you suggested. Ask for other specifics if you want them, these charts already take me like 20-30 minutes as is to do so I can't start off doing every possibility.

JarodDempsey1 votes

Unfortunately the sites i looked at regarding damage reduction formulas erroneously used armor/(100+armor) which does make my calcs a bit off. over all though their conclusion still holds since this error was mitigated by my intentional lack of accounting for damage resistance in relation to converting the shield healths into ehp since my point was to compare the resistance-added damage mitigation vs not (with the other two shields). Additionally my focus on early game stats (which is where ori's shield suffers most and is yet most needed) helped to prevent skew from the model error. With that said, you neglect to account for jannas 75% higher ap scaling which will close that ehp gap by about half at any given time based on your chart assuming ap doesnt reach ~340 in which case jannas shield would outpace ori's.

This is all well and good but you completely neglected the point of my post which was that it's not just the base stats that are a potential concern but the kit that comes along with the shield. Ori has no stopping power aside from ult which is not the most reliable skill in todays world where almost every new champ has a hard mobility(aka more than a speed buff) skill. One thing that i might have been more clear on is the focus on early game which is where her shield is weakest but also where it is most needed (especially since she doesn't have ult for much of it). Also one item that I didnt add was how ori has almost half as much mana regen as lulu and janna at the beginning of matches which makes her weaker but more spammable shield effectively a larger burden than janna and lulu's stronger but less spammable shields.

As an aside we might also look at how the shield skills themselves offer more utiility as a way to show overall usefullness as a skill and in doing so we would see how jannas shieldoffers the moderate ad buff as well as how she can uniquely shield a tower which imo is extremely useful and I think ori's shield should be able to do the same since it's a robot ball projecting an energy field. Looking at lulus shield, it also doubles as a point and click damage which allows her to augment the range/angle of her AA and q as well as the added utility of truesight and effectively guaranteed slow if combo'd with q. Ori's e does offer damage but is effectively only reliable after comboing with q.

I would have to disagree with your assessment of my proposed changes being "bonkers" since her kit lacks any other significant defensive utility (ult not withstanding as explained in op), her mana regen making her need to recast frequently significantly burdensome, her shield being at its weakest when it is most needed (early game/lane phase when pokes and trades are more often than full out engages and teamfights), and the skill's overall utility being subpar when compared to other shields in its class.

edit: also great job on the excel I <3 charts

JarodDempsey1 votes

Your post got me thinking and it occurred to me that a simple way to (while not directly increase the effectiveness of her shield) improve her shields efficacy when used as team support could be to reduce the mana cost on allied cast by 50%, which would preclude any tangible effect (or side effects) to mid ori while allowing her (especially in early game) to keep pace in roles opposite similar skill users like janna and lulu.

Shadòw1 votes

how about no

JarodDempsey1 votes

Why do you think that?

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