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Mage players, what are your plans to sustain your mana with the item changes?

L0ve Is Blue··5 votes·3,130 views

As most of you probably know, Riot is removing mana regen from mages and switching it for small amounts of flat mana (yes 400 mana on morello is small. I'ts like 3-4 spells).

Those changes will make mana sustain almost impossible to get, since the 2 items that sustain mana are now item 3010 item 3174 , both of wich requires you to get damages to activate... I don't understand these changes since most mages actualy want to stay back and avoid damage as much as possible... And switching mana regen to flat mana is a clear nerf to every mages, since a mage WILL get out of mana at one point, and mana is their main ressource... AD can use lifesteal or Essence reaver to sustain, tanks have warmog and don't need that much mana, but mages have no way of sustaining themselves appart from getting hit...

Considering this, what do you fellow mage players think about doing to sustain your mana?

Personnaly, I think I'm gonna straight up go for item 3092 rush... The other option would be item 3048, wich is basicaly the only way to have a mana pool huge enough to not have to back for a long time, even tought you still will run out of mana at one point, it wil take much longer and the item is going to be straight up stronger than any AP item since flat mana will be everywhere and the passive gives you AP based on your mana. I mainly play Lux Syndra Orianna, my new build should probably look like

item 3048 OR item 3092 , item 3165, item 3135 , item 3157, item 3020 ,item 3089

58 Comments

Sona Ping9 votes

I'll just play a Mage that has very high base mana regen.

Like maybe Zed.

RocketRelm1 votes

But his maximum doesn't go up with level, you only get 200 to start with, and you don't benefit from all these shiny new Max Mana items. How will you not go OOM after 1 rotation?

Maximum Morde6 votes

I plan to kill my enemy laner then back and recharge on the fountain, walk back and take three turrets while they are still waiting to respawns

Pierce The Veal2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6tmb7Uc,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-04-14T13:36:44.105+0000)

I plan to kill my enemy laner then back and recharge on the fountain, walk back and take three turrets while they are still waiting to respawns

Funny cause you'd actually have enough time for that with how the death timers are going.

Privileged Jew3 votes

I'm abandoning mana-reliant champions and going back to my old season 4 main - Kennen if they butcher mana costs due to this update.

DrCyanide3 votes

Honestly, I'm already starting to abandon Mages, which have been my go to class for years. I can do more for my team as the split pushing powerhouse that is Nasus than I can on any mage, and that makes me sad.

I know everyone will be in a rush to play Mages after the update, and I'll probably try some of my favorites just to see how it effects them, but if I want to win I won't be looking to play them.

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

Unless they make update to all mages mana pool/base mana regen - like, double one them - I don't imagine playing mages anymore at all.

Regeneration from new Catalyst not only requires you to take solid pounding to have any effect - the numbers are absurdly low compared to old one. If you got old Catalyst on lvl 6, you got 800 mana when you hit lvl 10. Now, to get equivalent of mana from single Valor's Reward proc, you need to take like 1300 damage. I get how they prefer in-combat regen than passive regen, but isn't the point you should get more from it when you take risks, instead of getting almost nothing? I.e. ulting lvl 16 Swain will get like 5 HP every second from new Catalyst. Now compare it to Graves' lifesteal...

This is worse than pathethic. Like I said - I hope Riot will update mana pools accordingly.

Melinda May3 votes

Play manaless champs or even more ADC.

Thats exactly whats going to happen.

Shonjl3 votes

Easy, don't play AP champs anymore.

A large mana pool only works when its lategame when you have a lot, early game its basically you are fked. For trying to make Mages in a better spot, Riot seems to be making them in an even crappier spot.

So just play Assassins or AD champs mid since that is what Riot seems to want, since we all know all that will happen is Yasuo and Zed will rule mid as the already weak Mages now can't even cast their spells.

Zarkkast2 votes

item 3040 item 3027

shark music2 votes

My plan? MY PLAN???

I'm going to be like "Bam!" and they're going to be all "AHHHH!" and then I will go "KA-PLACK! KA-PLACK! KA-PLACK!" and they will be all like "Gahhhh! Nooo!" and I will consider showing mercy but instead I will be all "VAAAMAAAHHHBOOOOOOM!!!" and then they will hide behind a tree sobbing in their dirty little fish pants.

Sincerely, Ziggs

ChaddyFantome2 votes

Considering I play mostly mana champs like Malzahar Swain Lissandra Karthus Cassiopeia , Ill be just fine. Worst comes to worst, get double item 1056

I went item 3070 >item 3003 on Orianna anyway too.

What Im interested in is how this will affect Talon Probs not wort but still interesting to see if item 3004 might be a decent buy for him. Not that he needs it or anything.

As for the whole NERF thing, Im pretty sure mages are getting mana scalings like Kass now. Just a feeling.

Personally, I think I'm gonna straight up go for item 3092 rush...

Getting nerf'd

warpenguin5552 votes

i item 3092 really item 3092 wish item 3092 I item 3092 knew item 3092 of item 3092 an item 3092 item item 3092 thatitem 3092 could item 3092 help item 3092

yep this shit again

RocketRelm1 votes

TBH, don't even complete the Frost Queens. Just dip 850 gp into your mana item, and move on to your first big buy. You can get cdr from things like Abyssal and Zhoynas and Starburst Belt now, so just skimp morellos. Dorans + Frostfang will be +125% post nerfs.

I play Morgana Mid as my main, and just go Frostfang into Abyssal as my first item. Sorc + Abyssal + Rune + Masteries is something like ~50 flat pen at lvl 9. That won't dip below 45 with abyssal nerfs, and it'll scale up from lvl 12 forwards.

XPL Turdong2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6tmb7Uc,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-14T13:10:24.123+0000)

As most of you probably know, Riot is removing mana regen from mages and switching it for small amounts of flat mana (yes 400 mana on morello is small. I'ts like 3-4 spells).

Those changes will make mana sustain almost impossible to get, since the 2 items that sustain mana are now item 3010 item 3174 , both of wich requires you to get damages to activate... I don't understand these changes since most mages actualy want to stay back and avoid damage as much as possible... And switching mana regen to flat mana is a clear nerf to every mages, since a mage WILL get out of mana at one point, and mana is their main ressource... AD can use lifesteal or Essence reaver to sustain, tanks have warmog and don't need that much mana, but mages have no way of sustaining themselves appart from getting hit...

Considering this, what do you fellow mage players think about doing to sustain your mana?

Personnaly, I think I'm gonna straight up go for item 3092 rush... The other option would be item 3048, wich is basicaly the only way to have a mana pool huge enough to not have to back for a long time, even tought you still will run out of mana at one point, it wil take much longer and the item is going to be straight up stronger than any AP item since flat mana will be everywhere and the passive gives you AP based on your mana. I mainly play Lux Syndra Orianna, my new build should probably look like

item 3048 OR item 3092 , item 3165, item 3135 , item 3157, item 3020 ,item 3089

400 mana is 6-10 spell casts for most mages, not even close to 3-4

L0ve Is Blue3 votes

Lux E: 130 mana

Syndra Q: 80 mana every 1.6 second w: 100 mana

Orianna

W: 110 mana

Xerath

Q: 120 mana W: 110 mana E: 80 mana

Ahri

Q and E: 85 mana

Brand

W: 110 mana E: 90 mana

Lulu

Q: 80 mana E: 100 mana

Ziggs

E: 110 mana

Annie

Q: 80 mana W: 110 mana

Zyra

Q: 95 mana E: 90 mana R: 140 mana

Malzahar

Q: 100 mana W: 110 mana E: 120 mana

For all those champions, (wich is like the majority of mages) in the game, 400 mana is about 4, maybe 5 and in some cases like ahri maybe 6 spells. So with about 4-5 spells you used all the mana provided by morello, who used to be the main source of mana for many mages, and that mana wont come back since you have no regen to back it up.

So unless we get extreme buffs to their mana/mana regen or get their costs down by a lot, the mana changes are a nerf to mages in general.

XPL Turdong2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6tmb7Uc,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2016-04-14T17:20:16.526+0000)

Lux E: 130 mana

Syndra Q: 80 mana every 1.6 second w: 100 mana

Orianna

W: 110 mana

Xerath

Q: 120 mana W: 110 mana E: 80 mana

Ahri

Q and E: 85 mana

Brand

W: 110 mana E: 90 mana

Lulu

Q: 80 mana E: 100 mana

Ziggs

E: 110 mana

Annie

Q: 80 mana W: 110 mana

Zyra

Q: 95 mana E: 90 mana R: 140 mana

Malzahar

Q: 100 mana W: 110 mana E: 120 mana

For all those champions, (wich is like the majority of mages) in the game, 400 mana is about 4, maybe 5 and in some cases like ahri maybe 6 spells. So with about 4-5 spells you used all the mana provided by morello, who used to be the main source of mana for many mages, and that mana wont come back since you have no regen to back it up.

So unless we get extreme buffs to their mana/mana regen or get their costs down by a lot, the mana changes are a nerf to mages in general.

You're looking at strictly maxed spells. Before rank 5 most mage spells are anywhere from 40-70 mana with some costing obscene amounts. Don't get me wrong I agree they need more mana regen in mid-late but saying all of their spells cost 100 mana is a stretch before level 18.

Titanium702 votes

As Swain Main I'm really looking forward to these changes. ^^

Sure a single item 3027 wont be enough, but due to the reduce price I can easily get a item 3070 as well. And the combination of both... HOLY Maccamoly - that could be awesome. :D Additionally, item 3065 looke quite strong as well, and might move from a rare purchase to a core Item.

Overall I expect to deal less DMG but have a ton of sustain to compensate.

My second choice for Mid is Brand... I've never build any ManaItem on him, I wont start now.

I wont buy Zhonyas anymore - its quite garbage right now and I dont like to build it, and it's getting even weaker.

Stars Shaper2 votes

AurelionSol --> item 3010 Xerath --> item 3070

At least that is what I expect. I'm really curious about the changes to Xerath.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

You guys can always just accept that in the early game you'll need to play conservatively and back more often, and in the late game you will ALWAYS need to secure blue buff as much as possible.

You will also need the mastery that increases buff times, which means no more biscuits.

LV42 Haunter2 votes

Mana sustain? Such thing exists with the item changes? O.o

Morellonomicon killed, no more Mana Reg, flat Mana is garbage. Athene's gutted. Tear path just takes too damn long, hated that on Orianna for example.

Zhonya's gutted, again, will never run this item unless I have to and/or it's not getting gutted that hard.

So....yeah, going back to top lane and stomp away with the likes of Garen or Renekton, because screw Mana issues.

Gigahappytown1 votes

[{quoted}](name=LV42 Haunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6tmb7Uc,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2016-04-14T22:45:57.657+0000)

Mana sustain? Such thing exists with the item changes? O.o

Morellonomicon killed, no more Mana Reg, flat Mana is garbage. Athene's gutted. Tear path just takes too damn long, hated that on Orianna for example.

Zhonya's gutted, again, will never run this item unless I have to and/or it's not getting gutted that hard.

So....yeah, going back to top lane and stomp away with the likes of Garen or Renekton, because screw Mana issues.

zhonyas deserves the nerfs to its stats though

The price change didn't do anything since gold gain was increased

zhonyas will still be part of the trinity of mage items

morellonomicon was bought for its cheap power spike cdr and anti-heal

very few mages are desgined with early and mid game in mind

majority will buy tear however the pace of the game is too fast for tear to be effective riot is addressing this with turret buffs in 6.9

LV42 Haunter1 votes

zhonyas deserves the nerfs to its stats though

The price change didn't do anything since gold gain was increased

zhonyas will still be part of the trinity of mage items

morellonomicon was bought for its cheap power spike cdr and anti-heal

very few mages are desgined with early and mid game in mind

majority will buy tear however the pace of the game is too fast for tear to be effective riot is addressing this with turret buffs in 6.9

Won't argue on Zhonya's there, I just think gutting it by 30 AP when it already lost 20 AP not too long ago sounds harsh if you just see the numbers.

Morellonomicon I will argue tho, if it would've had the flat mana from the start I would've never bought that item ever unless I'm Kassadin, Ryze or Anivia, those are the only ones that come to my mind that really benefit from that stat, other than that every other Mage just relies more on Mana Reg, Athene's got mostly outshined by it, champions that benefit from this more would be again Anivia, Kassadin, also Orianna, Ziggs and Veigar even tho he already has his passive, comparing those 2 items Athene's wasn't in such a bad spot as it seemed until now.

Going back to the changes, Athene's will most likely outshine Morellonomicon by far simply by having Mana Reg which more Mages benefit from, unless MP/5 gets buffed this will be the case.

Buying Tear forces the meta going into late game, it just takes too long until it shines, then again new Morellonomicon might be useful with it due to Archangel's passive, still makes champions that tend to go that route useless if you don't hit late game.

I don't really see turret buffs because I just read something about being able to destroy towers that are on 25% health or less, eh......yeah.

Gigahappytown1 votes

[{quoted}](name=LV42 Haunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6tmb7Uc,comment-id=002000000000,timestamp=2016-04-15T22:12:47.606+0000)

Won't argue on Zhonya's there, I just think gutting it by 30 AP when it already lost 20 AP not too long ago sounds harsh if you just see the numbers.

Morellonomicon I will argue tho, if it would've had the flat mana from the start I would've never bought that item ever unless I'm Kassadin, Ryze or Anivia, those are the only ones that come to my mind that really benefit from that stat, other than that every other Mage just relies more on Mana Reg, Athene's got mostly outshined by it, champions that benefit from this more would be again Anivia, Kassadin, also Orianna, Ziggs and Veigar even tho he already has his passive, comparing those 2 items Athene's wasn't in such a bad spot as it seemed until now.

Going back to the changes, Athene's will most likely outshine Morellonomicon by far simply by having Mana Reg which more Mages benefit from, unless MP/5 gets buffed this will be the case.

Buying Tear forces the meta going into late game, it just takes too long until it shines, then again new Morellonomicon might be useful with it due to Archangel's passive, still makes champions that tend to go that route useless if you don't hit late game.

I don't really see turret buffs because I just read something about being able to destroy towers that are on 25% health or less, eh......yeah.

riots shifting mages from high mana regen to high mana pools

mages will have a moderate window where they can cast spells before having to recall

the problem is they need better penetration items and increased ap in offensive items to make up for not having infinite mana and being able to spam from 2 screens away all game

TheUltimateSpear2 votes

For Cassiopeia building tear is fine because tear's always been a decent item on her even before her rework.

But, I'm concerned for mages who can't use tear well nor are supportish mages. What in the name of jesus am I supposed to build on someone like Zyra ?

But, in any case, I might try double dorans into Morello's and hope the game ends really fast or else be screwed later on.

Kapppaccino2 votes

Steal junglers blue :P

KillerKell2 votes

I'm simply playing all my Mages as AD Marksman. :D

BornAgainVirgin1 votes

if item 3027 doesn't work out then it will be time to buy Lissandra Cassiopeia Katarina or just quit mid and quit mages completely, which is far more likely for me since i kinda only like Ahri

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

Rod of age is going down from 800 mana to 400 :/ wich is as much as morello... So not a good mana option anymore :(

Titanium701 votes

Nah Moreelo is quite strong in Laning, you're underestimating the power of 400 Mana. ^^

Let's take Leblanc as example, at Level 7 she has a Manareag of 10. With Morello you increase this to 20. So you generate 120 additional Mana per Minute. With those number the new Morello get worse after the 4 Minute mark.

That sucks in Lategame - but it's quite reasonable in lane.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I don't really plan to make any changes. I've been on the ROA hype train ever since they made it a 100 AP item. I'm a conservative mage player, I don't find myself running oom very often, and I rarely get blue.

Most of my mage builds look something like this: item 3027 item 3020 item 3165 item 3116 item 3135 item 3089

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

roa is going to lose 400 flat mana so it's sustain won't be as good anymore :(

The Bearded Bard2 votes

And morellos is gaining 400, so I'm in the same spot. Yea I lose the mana regen, but like I said, I don't really use it. If it's really a big deal, I'll grab a blue buff.

hOrnn1 votes

Thats a great build vs tanky comps id swap and lose the cdr on morellicom for lindries to become tankier double proc the health shred with rylias n with void and sorcs melr through any mr they may have.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Orianna Ziggs Karma Veigar

The mages I play need the CDR. Though for Karma I typically forgo ROA for just Morellos then rush Rylais into Liandries or vice versa.

hOrnn1 votes

True, i dont like athenes because only 60ap but its really solud to rush 45%cdr on fizz and abuse his kit, less dmg but more uptime equals more dmg, u find myself never rushing lichbane on him because u need a few items ti really make the proc work, but athenes morellocom, lichbane, deathcap sorcs and either that 100×4 120ap item or hoyrglass, they would need 3 tanks to make ne care about void with the raw dmg and cdr this build has, and i mean true tanks like rammus garen and malphite. I also live veigars new q and have 3skins including boss. But with e changes w is bassically a farming spell now, very unreliable vs smart players. Phone kb sucks hate edit.

Lauchmelder1 votes

No plans. They most likely UP mana regen

SSJTribe1 votes

It's going to be Frost Queens, and this is from someone who hasn't abused it yet.

hOrnn1 votes

Screw an item that gives 10less ap then athenes on ap carries that have 5 item slots

Anomander1 votes

item 1056 item 1056 Will prolly be my start. Might go Meditation on utility mages.

Veraska1 votes

I think vel'koz will still be my go to mage, I built him very mpen heavy and mana wasn't a major concern, I'm excited to try orianna with the new athenes

Blackmage91 votes

I played a single game with the new mage items. Well only one because it was 5 hour que to get into the PBE and another hour to find a non-urf level. I played one of my favorite mages and champion Xerath. It wasn't as surprisingly bad as I thought. The new item 3070 actually wasn't that bad. Unfortunately that one single game we got curbed stomped so it was over rather quickly so I couldn't really get a good feel for the item. But as far as mana is concerned I was doing alright.

hOrnn1 votes

Same as before building tank dmh lussandra while abusing her passive, or athenes ziggs. But if its easier to get both roa and tear early ill bassically go back to karthus, riot knows this wall nerfs inc.

The Whamboozler1 votes

I'm gonna sit back in lane and use NOTHING for fear of immediately going oom and being useless while Zed spams all his abilities and /laugh at me. If the jungler ganks I might toss a Q or something and hope it hits, because I'm not going to have enough mana for another.

The Illithid1 votes

It depends on how they change Malzahar, since I mostly play him and he has built in mana sustain currently.

Solidair31 votes

Assuming Morellos does indeed gain Athene's on-kill or on-assist %max mana restore, I imagine a combo of lost chapter/morellonomicon and tear of the goddess/arch angels staff.

I actually don't think it will be a humongous problem, to be honest.

And if it is, they are willing to make changes. Not worried.

Gigahappytown1 votes

Riots shifting mages from mana regen to high mana pools and doubling blue buffs mana regen

the point of this is have non tanky mages restricted to a moderate window where they can cast spells instead of afking from 2 screens away and spamming spells with infinite mana

while tanky mages that can survive in the middle of a fight will get items give mana regeneration

Big Lincoln1 votes

item 3070 item 3165 if I want to invest into mid/late game damage

For Viktor probably just item 3165 or item 3100 but Tear will refund mana now, so it's definitely worth trying, not to mention the synergy with his Hex Core.

agbudar1 votes

not play mage and finally just bend over and get myself to be a zed/yassuo main? idk im not really looking forward to it. they are most likely taking mana returns away from our skills as well.

Ironicio1 votes

Ill just play viegar item 3070

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