Seriously 50% of this games balance issues would be clear if we just removed keystone masteries

I miss the old mastery system.

The defensive tree actually had many useful masteries which scaled well throughout the game. It was of similar strength as the offensive tree.

we didn't had keystone masteries before last season... guess what? we still had plenty (if not more!) balance issues

i agree, keystones were a horrible idea. riot sticking to them despite their plethora of inherent problems proves they really want to run their game into the ground

[{quoted}](name=L0ve Is Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mZppOjbR,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-04T18:29:26.358+0000)

Seriously 50% of this games balance issues would be clear if we just removed keystone masteries

lol no

I love big ol tittles

Personally enjoy the keystones, actually. Been playing since Season 2 and I prefer keystones and find them interesting.

Them some nice tittles you got, hun.

Let's remove masteries and runes. Make it so it's just champion balance.

I honestly don't think half these people have played long enough to flee in terror from a kass with silence...

Sure, we had busted stuff like Devourer, and old Cinderhulk, and a few fringe cases like Kassadin and such, but back in Season 4-5 we didn't have the absurd damage creep we do now, a shit-ton of removed items in favor of cancerous new ones, cycles of oppressive class reworks, every new champ being both safe and high-damage, and plenty of other questionable balance decisions.

Thanks to keystones we've seen tanksassins, probably every mage, fighter, and ADC being balanced around TLD and Fervor, every tank balanced around Grasp and CotC, and a jungle meta where if you didn't take SotA you were subpar. Keystones have warped how League champions are played and balanced when it should be the opposite - masteries should be tailored as minor in-game buffs, not gameplay-altering effects half of which could be champion passives.

Totally agree.

thunderlords is dope

but i would rather it be on a high priced item

that shit is way to good and ruins the way the game works

one small combo = half your health bar

Good idea on paper, but bad execution.

Agreed. Anivia was fine balance-wise and was hardly touched until Keystones were introduced. Then she gets nerfed over and over because of how well she synergizes with TLD. And then she gets a fuckton of band-aid fixes like the MYMU and another mini-rework last patch (which was overall a buff but doesn't feel like one because of how clunky she is to play now.)

Pretty sure TLD is the reason Anivia got a bit too oppressive (that and the slight E range extension which was bypassed by most). And now her kit's been all messed up after 6 years of never being a real issue. Thanks keystone masteries

Unpopular opinion here, but I actually love the keystone system.

The old system was mostly micro-math optimizations which gave no ingame interaction (dangerous game is probably the only one that did). With the exception of hybrid champs/Mundo, you would have 1 page for ADC, 1 page for mages, 1 page for tanks, 1 page for fighters, and 1 support page.

With the keystone system, you are presented with DISTINCT choices that have a REAL impact on your playstyle.

Keystone having balance issues isn't a reason to get rid of them. Riot can always buff or nerf as needed, and TBH they do a pretty good job at it. At the end of the day, keystone masteries are superior to pre-s6 masteries by a long shot, because they give players playstyle choices.