CDR Itemization on Tanks

PalPlays··4 votes·3,672 views

It's no surprise that a wide range of character archetypes like to have CDR. We have mages, AD casters, and tanks all alike that want to have a reliable way to hit 40% CDR during a game. While the first two can do so fairly feasibly, the latter distinctively runs into issues, due to having to vary their build more with the enemy team comp.

Mages seem to be in a fairly good spot right now, in terms of CDR options available to them. Morellonomicon is an excellent slot efficient item, providing useful mana regen, AP, and 20% CDR. It isn't hard to pick up a Twin Shadows (10%), Will of the Ancients, or blue buff (10%) to then hit the cap (or go 5% over with masteries). As for AP Junglers they only have to get Magus to be halfway there! Athene's serves at a higher cost, lower power alternative to Morellonomicon. There's also Banner of Command which is definitely a niche item, but it isn't bad!

Even AD champions are in fairly salvageable condition, in that Cleaver (10%), the Warrior Jungler enchant (10%), masteries (5%), Youmou's Ghostblade (10%), Essence Reaver (10%), and Zephyr (10%) are all viable picks.

The problem comes when trying to outfit a tank. With Spirit Visage having 10%, that is the only CDR a tank will ever have in their build when building MR. On most champions the passive will be useless, so Banshee's Veil is a much better pick (but it gives no CDR). Should the enemy team will have full AD, comparatively that is easier to itemize against for CDR. Frozen Heart, the tank's sole 20% CDR option, is a niche pick against teams with heavy AD, specifically as a counter to heavy autoattackers. A tank that wants to hit 40% CDR will often have to pick up Frozen Heart, which is, frankly, an extremely suboptimal buy against certain team comps. If the enemy's only source of AD-based damage is their ADC, once that threat goes down, Frozen Heart becomes a 2450 gold purchase for 20% CDR and some mana. Even if they have multiple AD users, building health and armor is nearly universally preferred over building just armor. Especially now that armor Pen is so widespread.

The other tank options for CDR give only 10%, and are limited to Iceborn Gauntlet (which shares Frozen Heart's problem of providing large chunks of mana and armor, with no resistance whatsoever against magic and no health) and Locket of the Iron Solari (which is supposed to be a support item to begin with). That's about it. The only tanky Jungler item won't give CDR as of patch 5.5, and Face of the Mountain is for supports! Top laners do not pick up these items. Tanks have a pretty strongly invested interest in their boots; the opportunity cost for picking up Boots of Lucidity on a tank (thereby not taking Ninja Tabi or Mercury Treads) is much greater than the opportunity cost on an AD caster (not taking... Berserker's Greaves?). But then you are missing out on Tenacity which is almost essential on a tank, or the passive on Ninja Tabi!

So, the tank that gets both Visage and Locket has 20% CDR, and if they don't particularly want Frozen Heart or Iceborn Gauntlet, they're immediately screwed. This is significant, because against teams with heavy AP, it is extremely disadvantageous to invest in an armor item that does not also provide either health or magic resist; no matter what the tank picks next, it will be suboptimal.

The simple fix to this problem would be to create a tank item that offers 10% or 20% CDR and either health or magic resist (though not necessarily both, otherwise we end up with Spirit Visage mkII). This could be done by reworking Zeke's Herald to make it a more desirable buy in general (this item is incredibly slot inefficient presently, and due to its build path, most supports don't even buy it). Alternatively, creating a whole new item might be only way to go.

Credit to Leaf of the Lake for posting this. I just updated it to fit the newest patch. You can find the original thread here! http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4291485

Suggestions:

Thawed Heart (melee only): 60 Magic Resist - 1300G value 20% Cooldown Reduction - 633G value

Unique Passive: 25% Base mana regen to allies within a 1000 range Unique Passive - Grants a shield that absorbs up to 30 (+15 per level) damage. This shield will regenerate over 3 seconds after 9 seconds pass without taking damage. Cost: 2500 Gold

This fills a very empty niche. I see this being purchased on Junglers like Amumu who suffer from mana issues and love CDR. The shield is mostly helpful for clearing camps or as an anti-poke. The item also good on tank supports, as it can benefit your allies with mana regen.

Righteous Glory: 650 HP 300 Mana 10% CDR (the 100% HP regeneration removed)

Passive and active unchanged

This has enough sustain from the passive. A trade of some sustain for CDR, I'll take that any day!

Current Tank Items:

item 3401: (Support Item) Grants HP and CDR, but is only for supports.

item 3050: (Never Built) This thread probably wouldn't have been made if this were a worthy investment. It gives 20% CDR! However that comes with the price of having horrible stats for its cost.

item 3083: (Any Tank) Fantastic item that offers sustain but no CDR. Of all the items I think that this should never give the stat. It's enough as is.

item 3800: (Jungler/Few Supports) HP, sustain, a gapcloser, CC, mana...This item has everything a tank needs but CDR.

item 3027: No resistances but it does give a bucket-load of HP. No CDR but for all the stats it gives CDR should not be added to them.

item 3022: (Never Built) Not only is this item way too expensive for what it gives, you also get none of the golden stat I'm asking for.

item 3056: (Support Item) Gives CDR but isn't that tanky. It's mostly buffing the *utility *of a support tank.

item 3068: (Any Tank) Passively does damage to all nearby, offers HP and armor, but still no CDR.

item 3143: (Any Tank) It's the ultimate armor item, once again though, no Cooldown Reduction.

item 3102: (Any Tank) No CDR.

item 3065: (Only Tanks with Sustain) This gives everything I want in a tank item except for most champions the passive is wasted. Unless you're playing a tank with innate sustain you forgo this for Banshee's Veil which...yeah...

item 3190: (Situational) It's mostly used for supports, but I guess Junglers could run it. Don't take it as a top laner. It does give CDR but as I said before, it's too situational fix the tank itemization problem. So if you're looking at the average tank that does NOT have built in sustain (so most of them), this is the ONLY MR CDR item...

item 3060: (Support Item) For the stats it gives, you shouldn't call this a tank item. It's meant for non-tank supports to get AP and also give their team some resistance.

The problem really lies with Jungle tanks. These are the items that they can build that grant tankiness and CDR.

item 3110: Armor and 20% CDR. If you need to build more health then look elsewhere. It also gives mana so if you are Shen or Shyvana then forget it.

item 3025: Pretty much only good on tanks that can utilize the spellblade passive. No health. If you are Mordekaiser or Zac then don't get it because of the mana.

item 3190: It is a good item but doesn't give that much tanky stats. 15 less Magic Resist than Banshee's Veil and Spirit Visage, so it is meant to supplement an already tanky build.

6 Comments

ProfDrDeath2 votes

item 3190 : Tank item with CdR.

item 3060 : For AP scaling tanks.

item 3025 : Need more CC?

item 3401 : For support tanks.

item 3110 : Big Armor + CdR.

item 3056 : Also CdR.

PalPlays2 votes

{quoted}

item 3190 : Tank item with CdR.

item 3060 : For AP scaling tanks.

item 3025 : Need more CC?

item 3401 : For support tanks.

item 3110 : Big Armor + CdR.

item 3056 : Also CdR.

Notice something about those items? They are almost all armor.

item 3190: Is a support item that doesn't really do much for Jungler, nor does it help top laners for most of the game.

item 3060: Also a support item, however this has such limited utility that it should not even be mentioned as a tank item. 200 HP and 40 magic resist, hardly tanky when you compare its other stats. It's more for Soraka or another ranged support who wants to benefit their allies more.

item 3025: Like I said in the thread, this gives armor, no HP and mana. When building against MR this does NOT help. You'll be killed before you're in range to apply the slow.

item 3401: Once again a support item. It's a great item, but not for top or Jungler champions.

item 3110: Sure, it's good, but if the only AD on the enemy team is their ADC, and that ADC isn't the main threat... See what I'm getting at? It's useless at that point.

item 3056: Once again, this is a support item. You will hardly EVER see a top laner or Jungler get this. It also doesn't give much in the way of tanky stats. It's mean to supplement a pre-existing build, not be the tankiness of a champion.

qetzel2 votes

To start, you should be buying Frozen heart practically every game. If you were to work out the damage dealt to you as a tank throughout a game, the adc will almost always deal most of the damage - not counting the stats, it reduces the damage you take from Auto attacks by 15%! This is massive.

That is 20% right there. If you are a sustain tank then you will buy Spirit Visage, otherwise, Banshee's Veil. Normally you wouldn't buy both (the exception is when the opposing team has duo AP). That is either 30 or 20% CDR. Depending on the champion, you can also take masteries.

Iceborn Gauntlet is a good item for tanks that like to get into the middle of a fight, particularly against imobile squishies - the slow field practically guarantees their death if flash is down.

Actually, CDR for tanks is comparable to that of other classes, given slot efficiency. A mage can't buy both a Grail and Morellos (well, they couldm but that would be stupid) and is practically forced by efficiency to take both Zhonya's and Rabadon's - often Void Staff as well - as earlier items. At that point in the game I would normally be looking for a defensive item, and the game doesn't normally last long enough for a 6th item.

Your typical caster won't buy the CDR items either for the same reason. They will need a last whisper, often a BT and a GA o/e. While they have options, they can't get CDR without giving them big problems on the damage or survivability fronts.

tl;dr: Tanks CDR options are actually in line with the rest of the cast (except support, but they don't get to buy many items anyway).

PalPlays2 votes

{quoted}

To start, you should be buying Frozen heart practically every game. If you were to work out the damage dealt to you as a tank throughout a game, the adc will almost always deal most of the damage - not counting the stats, it reduces the damage you take from Auto attacks by 15%! This is massive.

That is 20% right there. If you are a sustain tank then you will buy Spirit Visage, otherwise, Banshee's Veil. Normally you wouldn't buy both (the exception is when the opposing team has duo AP). That is either 30 or 20% CDR. Depending on the champion, you can also take masteries.

Iceborn Gauntlet is a good item for tanks that like to get into the middle of a fight, particularly against imobile squishies - the slow field practically guarantees their death if flash is down.

Actually, CDR for tanks is comparable to that of other classes, given slot efficiency. A mage can't buy both a Grail and Morellos (well, they couldm but that would be stupid) and is practically forced by efficiency to take both Zhonya's and Rabadon's - often Void Staff as well - as earlier items. At that point in the game I would normally be looking for a defensive item, and the game doesn't normally last long enough for a 6th item.

Your typical caster won't buy the CDR items either for the same reason. They will need a last whisper, often a BT and a GA o/e. While they have options, they can't get CDR without giving them big problems on the damage or survivability fronts.

tl;dr: Tanks CDR options are actually in line with the rest of the cast (except support, but they don't get to buy many items anyway).

They aren't in line with the cast at all. As for buying Frozen Heart every game...no... It does nothing against armor penetration. Should the enemy ADC be the ONLY one dealing physical damage, then he won't deal much damage sure, but the other four AP laners will be shredding you. I assume you don't play tank much, because if you did than you'd know how bad this situation has become. It's been a popular issue for over three years.

qetzel1 votes

I do play tanks, and I think that Frozen heart is incredibly important. How often do you actually face 4 AP champions, really? Even now, you only sometimes get a double AP.

Frozen heart also does as much against armour penetration as it does against any other damage coming from Auto attacks. 15%. Yes, it does slightly less against spells, but it is still useful.

(Rude/jokey comment coming up here) I assume you don't play League much. The start of Season 3 was great for tanks, as was the start of Season 4. Over three years? Not at all. For the record, I don't think that last whisper is a problem. While full tanks are suffering a little bit, that has little to do with armour penetration. Bruisers do enough tanking and also deal some damage. Balancing items around tanks makes bruisers far too strong.

PalPlays1 votes

{quoted}

I do play tanks, and I think that Frozen heart is incredibly important. How often do you actually face 4 AP champions, really? Even now, you only sometimes get a double AP.

Frozen heart also does as much against armour penetration as it does against any other damage coming from Auto attacks. 15%. Yes, it does slightly less against spells, but it is still useful.

(Rude/jokey comment coming up here) I assume you don't play League much. The start of Season 3 was great for tanks, as was the start of Season 4. Over three years? Not at all. For the record, I don't think that last whisper is a problem. While full tanks are suffering a little bit, that has little to do with armour penetration. Bruisers do enough tanking and also deal some damage. Balancing items around tanks makes bruisers far too strong.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1729104

http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/champions-and-gameplay/31422-looking-for-viable-options-for-cdr-on-tanks

http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2xgc9m/so_uhwhere_do_jungle_tanks_get_cdr_now/

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vZBLRa9X-can-we-get-a-mrcdr-item-for-tanks

I found these in under two minutes. CDR on tanks, especially Jungle tanks is a big issue.

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