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Good job Riot! We asked, you answered. You gave us...DIVERSITY!

PalPlays··83 votes·10,308 views

Think about it, summoner 4/summoner 12 isn't the be-all-end-all choice for toplane anymore. You can take summoner 4, summoner 11, summoner 14, summoner 12 , or summoner 6! Riot has achieved their goal, there are more champions being played in the LCS than there ever were; we're seeing Urgot (Mid/ADC), Varus (MID), Cassiopeia (top), Shyvana (top), Jax , Xerath , and Elise! Smite doesn't just have to be taken by Junglers, THAT was a lack of diversity. We complained in 5.4 that there was no variety, that Vi, JarvanIV, LeeSin, and RekSai were the only worthwhile picks in the Jungle. Now that Riot has kept those champions viable WHILE opening up possibilities NEVER explored before, are we really going to complain? We got what we wanted, so please don't let Riot lose all hope in its fanbase. Learn to be grateful for what you wished for, because it's here.

League has finally become what I've wanted for so long, a game where almost any pick is viable. I can play Skarner and not get flamed, Amumu and not be irrelevant, and Rek'Sai to be a tank OR assassin/fighter. Riot, if you're reading this, you did right by me. Don't let the complainers influence you. Those who truly enjoy the game will commend you on your successes and suggest how to fix any shortcomings. May Season 5 be known as the time that Riot, the LCS, and loyal fans finally created a thing called Diversity.

BRAVO!

127 Comments

P0IS0N IVY50 votes

Did you just tell me Elise is viable?

PalPlays9 votes

{quoted}

Did you just tell me Elise is viable?

She was played in the LCS, despite needing some love.

It Hertz When IP34 votes

Well, if she was in LCS she must be OP! NERF ELISE PL0X!

EDIT: /sarcasm for those who missed the joke...

PalPlays3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0YNsqKEA,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-05-08T19:26:14.208+0000)

Well, if she was in LCS she must be OP! NERF ELISE PL0X!

I didn't say that, and that's the entire point of my thread. No champion is inherently OP at the moment, which paves the way for champions like Elise to be at the very least, usable. I would certainly agree that she needs love, but in this meta, even the most under-powered champions are still usable. The most unbalance is found in the AD Carry category, but it's much better than it was. Riot is aware right now, which is a fantastic thing to be able to truthfully state.

It Hertz When IP3 votes

Ah, I see I forgot my "/sarcasm" note. I will go rectify that.

PalPlays3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0YNsqKEA,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-08T19:43:22.695+0000)

Ah, I see I forgot my "/sarcasm" note. I will go rectify that.

Oh...well at least I didn't fly off the handle. Add a "Kappa" to the post, that will make everything better. Kappa

It Hertz When IP3 votes

What does that even mean? I've seen it used before.

Morsigil2 votes

There once a guy who worked at twitch.tv by the name of Josh Kappa. An emote was made out of his face, and now it's the equivalent of trollface.

Example of usage: "Kappa is a reference to a Japanese river demon by the same name. Kappa."

Abyssphere7 votes

When did Elise become usable?

And why is Xerath being good surprising.

Transgressor6 votes

How many times do we have to go over this: LCS is jack shit compared to the massive playerbase. What they do, doesn't matter, what they play doesn't matter, they don't define the meta and how the game works. So stop identifying diversity with LCS or whatever. 100 or so players don't do shit compared to the millions that play daily.

ItemsGuy2 votes

Considering that a lot of what the pro players do is what sets the standard (since apparently League players make up a lot of the viewership for LCS/pro streams/etc.), I'd say that yeah, what they do is kind of important--maybe not for the best reasons, but it's tough to deny. Many players who take League seriously (or at least really, really like winning) tend to learn by watching people who are the best at what they do, and what they do influences those they play with and against. That, and with how much Riot is pushing eSports, they're pretty much always either on the launcher or the main client page.

They may only be 100 or so players, but they have the spotlight.

RiotAeon Eternal6 votes

Thanks for posting this thread! We've been really excited to see the gains to champion diversity over the past couple of months too --- by focusing on making more champions viable within each position and role, we're hoping to foster the fun sense of experimentation where players can find new champions they want to try out... or position... or role... or build... or strategy.

We want to remove the oppressive champions and items who are overshadowing other options, and look for opportunities to carve out a more unique or special space for champions who may not stand out within the rest of the champion roster today. And all the while we'll continue to look forward to the next new and creative innovations that we know you all will make using those tools in ways we expect (and ways we don't).

Titanium702 votes

Thumbs up for diversity! ^^ By intoducing Cinderhulk you achived alot more than making tnaks viable - you made champs viable that are good against Tanks, you made Champs viable that are good against Champs that are good VS Tanks, additional you broke this damn cycle of "Be an Assassin - Counter an Assassin or GO HOME" :D

Thanks you Guys - this Game is alot more fun to play recently! (still, i´m mad at you because Veigar q.q)

Keevalroy6 votes

We want to remove the oppressive champions

Might I make a few suggestions? Kalista Nidalee YasuoLeblanc Zed

Cuix2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Aeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0YNsqKEA,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2015-05-12T02:33:31.926+0000) We want to remove the oppressive champions and items who are overshadowing other options, and look for opportunities to carve out a more unique or special space for champions who may not stand out within the rest of the champion roster today.

I hope this will be done EXTREMELY cautiously. This diversity feels like it's on a knife's edge, and any knee-jerk changes or sudden nerfhammer strikes could toss a lot of work down the drain in an instant. In particular, I fear for Cinderhulk and its users, and I'm sure many of us are casting worried glances at Lee Sin off to the side chomping at the bit.

Arcade Andrew4 votes

Diversity? that isnt diversity thats just the meta changing like it always does

Adrian Blackbear7 votes

I was thinking the exact same thing. They call it "tank meta" for a reason. The only reason people use summoner 12 summoner 11 top lane is because the immolate passive is better on item 3717 than item 3068 and you get more benefits of going tanky (who doesn't like 25% bonus health?).

That being said, I think that there is some diversity, but even still, you see the same champions being played in the pro circuit.

warpenguin5553 votes

true ya, riot is doing a good job of trying to get every champion viable again. Once MissFortune gets a rework and the 4 full relaunches happen, then im not sure exactly who i left out

Marthian4 votes

Miss fortune is actually really good right now. I have an excellent win rate with her. Edit: I wouldn't mind if her passive got some love though. Namely minions killing the bonus at level 18 is kind of ridiculous.

warpenguin5553 votes

{quoted}

Miss fortune is actually really good right now. I have an excellent win rate with her.

is she really? huh

Marthian2 votes

Definitely. You build her as a classic ADC like (IE/BT/PD/LW/BG) and she can still be a threat. Her passive makes her roam very well, and is excellent for kiting/dodging abilities/champions.

A Miss Fortune4 votes

Literally one of the few people who understand Miss Fortune.

TheBostonTap4 votes

{quoted}

Miss fortune is actually really good right now. I have an excellent win rate with her. Edit: I wouldn't mind if her passive got some love though. Namely minions killing the bonus at level 18 is kind of ridiculous.

No one ever said MF didn't have damage or power (In fact, she's actually very strong when paired with an AoE comp.) The issue is the fact that she isn't a safe choice in any situation. With no self-peel, her passive deactivating upon taking damage and no escape abilities, MF has no way of escaping the super tanky jungelers like Gragas or Sejuani and eventually just dies. If you want someone to do magic damage so you can use a ad heavy comp, you take Corki. If you want a hyper carry, you take Jinx or Cait. If you want an AD caster carry, you take Graves or Lucian.

Again, MF does pack a punch, but its hard to wind back for a punch when a boar is on top of you.

Pinker 103 votes

She's not though Sure, her damage is decent(ish) but she's really only GOOD in a couple match-ups, and a lot of her teamfight ability is based on her allies. She feels ok, but she's so .... backwards that she can't be optimized without a rework. Every spell scales with a damage type that it doesn't deal - except q and e - which scale with different things. In a tank meta, that's pretty much the opposite of really good. She can't use pen. For anything. Except her autos and q. Well, unless she builds void, and then her autos don't have pen - but on the bright side, everything else that uses AD will.... If autos are all you want, there's better champions. If AoE is what you want, there's better champions. Mf isn't good right now, just like my favorite isn't good right now. You just have enough experience playing a sub-par champ you don't notice the deficit as much.

Dat ez doe

Sona Ping4 votes

Mixed damage isn't good against defense stats.

You should definitely sell whatever it is that you are on; You could buy yourself a boat.

Marthian3 votes

Here's the thing: You don't focus on trying to deal both types of damage. Building her as a classic ADC lets her deal plenty of physical damage, even with autos. The magic damage, even without pen, should not be under-estimated (considering carries rarely itemize pure defense, much less of both types.) That Attack speed boost does wonders for her too, able to ruin others' sources of healing.

HeWolf10 votes

Gangplank

warpenguin5556 votes

{quoted}

Gangplank

im guessing you have never seen late game critplank

HeWolf16 votes

I've seen Baron buffed Cannon minions does it count?

Kapppaccino1 votes

{quoted}

I've seen Baron buffed Cannon minions does it count?

I don't get it but it seems funny. Explain

HeWolf2 votes

Nah it was a comparaison between GP and a cannon minion. I saw it a while ago and I thought it seemed very funny to me :D

Kapppaccino3 votes

{quoted}

Nah it was a comparaison between GP and a cannon minion. I saw it a while ago and I thought it seemed very funny to me :D

Oh I thought you meant to say critplank is as useful as a baron cannon minion

HeWolf12 votes

I wouldn't dare to do so! Baron cannon minions have more range to destroy towers!

Transgressor9 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't dare to do so! Baron cannon minions have more range to destroy towers!

Kapppaccino2 votes

Not like anyone in silver knows how to siege anyways

Vesarixx2 votes

Critplank is part of the problem, GP either gets behind and doesn't really do anything or chunks people for over half their health in one hit, I've done this myself and there isn't much people can do about it at that point, it's pretty feast or famine.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Please no.

He may not be strong overall, but he's fun. Riot's reworks have a 40% chance of preserving him.

HeWolf1 votes

Well, GP's fun is also dependant on around 40% crit chance anyways. That champion is so unique that has the same nature out and in-game.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

I favor TankPlank, personally; and almost never use CritPlank. I also run MagePlank, BruiserPlank, & SupportPlank.

His kit is also versatile enough that you can almost buy items at complete random and still be relevant.

HeWolf1 votes

He's an item-whor* indeed, but he's a cheap one. Underwhelming compared to the ones who can fill his roles. Not cc for a Tank, not a "combo" to be a burst mage. He needs too much gold to par other champion's stats. That's why I think his kind of "Full crit trying to one shot" is his only "viable" option.

Fun: 10000/10. But calling him relevant is asking too much IMO.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Underwhelming compared to the ones who can fill his roles.

My original reply:

He may not be strong overall, but he's fun.

HeWolf2 votes

Then you may understand why he needs to be reworked. The game is competitive oriented (5v5 at least), and that means that every champion must be useful at least in certain situations. If there's no role or little thing where he excels, he should get changed.

Please don't think I'm a god-complex player, I'm just trying to explain my point of view.

Sona Ping3 votes

Fortune is fine. Y'all need to stop using her ult to engage in front of Malphite.

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

Don't forget, Urgot also has been played as an ADC, and Cassiopeia went top lane yesterday at MSI

My Desired Name3 votes

Now, they just need to work on item diversity....

But I agree, Riot is doing an excellent job!

I Main Swain2 votes

you forgot summoner 3 top lane

KoKoboto2 votes

I get flamed when I play Ashe support

The Bearded Bard2 votes

That's a really good point, OP. You've changed my mind about taking smite top. They just need to balance it so it's not as crazy strong as it is now, particularly how challenging smite works, and how you basically get a free level advantage just by bringing smite to lane.

ItemsGuy2 votes

Riot has begun to deliver on their promise of greater competitive diversity, but your tone here worries me--it seems a lot like "things are starting to get better, so you shouldn't continue to criticize Riot on the current state of their game".

Riot's finally made a nice step (compared to the S4 competitive scene, where you could guess off-hand just about every champion that would be picked or banned more than once), but they still have a long way to go. I think right now is a good time to stop and take a deep breath, appreciate the atmosphere, but not long enough to let complacency set in.

Has League reached a state of perfect competitive balance? Are current champions viable for the right reasons (unique and strategy-defining niches, compared to "well, Urgot's ult can counter Zed even though it makes no sense with the rest of his kit")? As someone who watches as much competitive DotA as I do, I'm going to have to say that while the progress that League has been making is good, it's not as good as it could be--and that until then, it's important to stay critical.

Dataless2 votes

Your blind optimism is adorable OP.

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