Riot will automatically make you fill if queue times are too long

Aazzlano·Jun 1, 2016·10 votes·2,865 views

"To address position shortages, we’re adding an autofill mode that can trigger when queue times are too long. If players enter queue with excessive estimated wait times, the matchmaker will potentially assign them a role other than the two they selected."

Probably won't affect almost anybody reading this because there are enough players for your elo to work, but RIP high elo.

Especially those accounts who only have champions for their role. Enjoy supporting with no champ pool!

34 Comments

Cenobite AzazielJun 1, 20164 votes

"Hey it's fun to play as a team right? The new team select is greeeeat right? So guess what, diamond will get 3 max teams and if it took to much we will shove you into fill. Top and mid? Nope you will fill. We are perverting the whole purpose of this queue and make it feel like soloq, without being solo q."

You know they could make you could only go ina premade if someone picks support.

DrCyanideJun 1, 20161 votes

You know they could make you could only go ina premade if someone picks support.

For premades of 4, they do enforce that (at least, someone has to be willing to play support).

Deep Terror NamiJun 1, 20162 votes

Prior to the New Champ Select, making sure you had something to use in all roles was a necessity. Being forced into a role you didn't play because the priority picks took what you wanted sucked, but it was expected to happen occasionally and wasn't a big deal. I don't see how it's being seen as a worse problem now even though it's still better than pre-NCS. The highest elo players that will have to fill more often should probably be expected to have a more varied experience than the lower elos that will very rarely have to fill.

I don't necessarily agree with auto-fill, but we should at least wait to see how exactly it will work and how often it is used.

ErockandrollJun 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6G8u4rx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-01T00:36:10.302+0000)

I don't necessarily agree with auto-fill, but we should at least wait to see how exactly it will work and how often it is used.

I'd imagine it would create a hard cap on those Q times. If say, you selected top and mid lane as your primary and secondary, And a notification, that says you may get a different role because Q times exceed 10 minutes, what actually guarantied? The 10 minute wait time, cause if you get deferred you get a role that will be more in demand, and if you don't it means your position is available within 10 minutes.

But why is this important? Because if more people line up for top/mid lane than there are games found. That line will continue to get longer, which would drive the wait times even higher. The only way to bring the wait times down would be to decrease the length of the line, or increase the speed in which people are served. and This actually does both, since it quarenties a maximum length to the line, while filling in the in demand roles, thus increasing the speed they are serviced.

ShonjlJun 1, 20162 votes

It is entirely your fault and you deserve to get flamed and lose if you don't have champs for other roles.

Regardless of how Dynamic que works, there is NO EXCUSE for anyone that plays this game to not at least have a champ or 2 for each role. Just because you don't like a role doesn't mean you shouldn't have something for it if you have to play it from time to time. I myself am not a big fan of mid and Adc, but I still have a few mids and Adcs I can play if I get put into the role.

People need to stop being selfish and learn the game.

AazzlanoJun 1, 20162 votes

What about the fact that unless you purchase champs with real money, grinding for IP takes a decent amount of time, especially to unlock THAT many extra champions. Plus the runes needed to play them, and the runepages as well.

Congrats that you only play blind pick, you are not in Diamond+ (which this applies to) nor will you ever be, so this won't ever affect you. However, for a lot of people (numerically, not percentage wise) this will add more randomness and solves literally nothing. It will cause hundreds of losses for no reason over time just because someone got a role they couldn't play. And it will also cause hundreds of dodges which wouldn't have happened. Making queue times go UP most likely.

ShonjlJun 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What about the fact that unless you purchase champs with real money, grinding for IP takes a decent amount of time, especially to unlock THAT many extra champions. Plus the runes needed to play them, and the runepages as well.

Congrats that you only play blind pick, you are not in Diamond+ (which this applies to) nor will you ever be, so this won't ever affect you. However, for a lot of people (numerically, not percentage wise) this will add more randomness and solves literally nothing. It will cause hundreds of losses for no reason over time just because someone got a role they couldn't play. And it will also cause hundreds of dodges which wouldn't have happened. Making queue times go UP most likely.

Again, if someone is in Diamond+ and by then still doesn't have a varied champ pool, they still deserve to get fked for it. Also its cute you try to insult about rank. It is adorable, as if I would be impressed or even care.

I mean cmon, people make it sound like its so hard to buy champs, its not hard, and this is coming from someone that usually plays maybe 2-3 games a day, if not just outright not play for a few days.

Still fail to see the problem here other than someone being an idiot and putting all their eggs into a single basket and falling flat on their face when that basket isn't picked.

AazzlanoJun 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Again, if someone is in Diamond+ and by then still doesn't have a varied champ pool, they still deserve to get fked for it. Also its cute you try to insult about rank. It is adorable, as if I would be impressed or even care.

I mean cmon, people make it sound like its so hard to buy champs, its not hard, and this is coming from someone that usually plays maybe 2-3 games a day, if not just outright not play for a few days.

Still fail to see the problem here other than someone being an idiot and putting all their eggs into a single basket and falling flat on their face when that basket isn't picked.

Lol. You can talk all you want but it doesn't matter because you won't ever face our issues. I guarantee you would do a 180 if you were in our position, you don't know what it's like or what the community is like up here.

ShonjlJun 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol. You can talk all you want but it doesn't matter because you won't ever face our issues. I guarantee you would do a 180 if you were in our position, you don't know what it's like or what the community is like up here.

You are a pretty sad excuse of a Diamond player if getting to that rank and you still aren't capable of handling all roles. I figured people would learn that by Silver or even high Bronze to have a varied champ pool lol. I do know that most Diamonds aren't bad like you that complain if they get put into a role other than the 2 you want since most people that get that high are smart enough and not selfish and know they will get roles they don't want every now and then.

I am losing interest in this, you are sad is really all that can be said. Try to defend yourself all you want, but there is nothing you can say to justify yourself for not having all roles covered. Just because you don't like 3 other roles doesn't mean you shouldn't have champs for them if you have to do them. Thats it. I guess even Diamond players can be stupid too if there is people like you that don't get that.

AazzlanoJun 2, 20161 votes

I own all champions.

Also, if winning is so simple as playing every role, why aren't you Diamond already?

Miror BJun 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What about the fact that unless you purchase champs with real money, grinding for IP takes a decent amount of time, especially to unlock THAT many extra champions. Plus the runes needed to play them, and the runepages as well.

Congrats that you only play blind pick, you are not in Diamond+ (which this applies to) nor will you ever be, so this won't ever affect you. However, for a lot of people (numerically, not percentage wise) this will add more randomness and solves literally nothing. It will cause hundreds of losses for no reason over time just because someone got a role they couldn't play. And it will also cause hundreds of dodges which wouldn't have happened. Making queue times go UP most likely.

It's one of the reason "flex picks" are so popular. Realistically, if you don't have a couple of those by the time you hit diamond then you're either a smurf, and/or shouldn't be that rank to begin with.

GeauxxJun 1, 20161 votes

kind of says alot for the low elo players who have those oh so many champions they preach of and yet still cant climb anywhere.

Makes you wonder whose really in the wrong. The high elos with no champ pool, or the low elos with every champion.

AptestJun 1, 20162 votes

The effect of this change on queue times and role selection for diamond+ players is completely irrelevant. You guys are <0.5% of the player base, and the decisions are made for the benefit of the 99.5% who are not you.

As for not having IP for supports, you can get a bunch of still effective support champions at 450. Takes you like 7-8 games to get Soraka and Janna and you're set.

AazzlanoJun 1, 20162 votes

What? It DOES NOT AFFECT LOW ELO. It ONLY affects high elo. So 100% of the intended target bracket is at risk to be screwed over. There is absolutely no benefit to low elo and you won't see any changes from that because your queue times are way shorter than ours. We will see some benefit in shorter queue times, but a massive decrease in the quality of those games as someone is going to be placed somewhere they don't want to be, and don't play. And even if they own all the champions, they are not going to be as good as a random champion in a random role than their main role or on their main champion, period. At that point it will simply be luck as to who got more fills. GG competitive integrity.

AptestJun 1, 20161 votes

well.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's say we're at high elo. At high elo there's not a lot of players. So lets say there's only 10 people in the queue that "qualify" for the game, elo-wise.

let's say that supports are under represented 20% (that's close to reality in bronze); relative to mid/top players. meaning, there are 3 mid/top players and only 1 support.

Now, you can't have a game. What happens next?

Either all 10 people wait until the elo criteria of the game gets wide enough such that there's another support that qualifies, or one of the 10 original players switches roles to support.

if the elo criteria of the game gets wide, the support that you're gonna get is going to be either above your pay-grade, or some boosted, useless fool.

end result: you wait 30 minutes for an inferior game.

OR, one of you switches to support, and you get to play without any plat/gold plebs in your game.

TL;DR: you are grossly under-estimating the loss of match quality that follows the variations in "player quality" resulting from a long queue time - a figure that is not visible to you.

For what it's worth, I'm on your side. You chose to wait 30 minutes for an inferior game; if you wanted to not wait you'd put "fill" in the box and had a game in 5 min top.

So i think, RIOT can maybe respect your choice to pay with a long wait time.

But I think what's bothering them is a lot of people not understanding that they are making a choice. A lot of people can't understand why they can't pick mid and have a game in 5 minutes. So they scream at riot and riot thinks changing the game is easier than educating fools.

Maximum MordeJun 1, 20161 votes

F yo couch, I only play AP champs.

Mysticman89Jun 1, 20161 votes

I feel like there aren't that many diamond+ elo players who hadn't played in the days of occasionally being forced to play off-roles, and on top of that I expect most high elo players have accumulated most champs for the sake of trade potential if not actual usage.

It shouldn't really be a big deal, even if it might be a bit frustrating at times to not get your main (but thats already true even with this system).

AazzlanoJun 1, 20162 votes

Yeah but the thing is, in actual high elo, in the old system, you would get the role you wanted probably 95% of the time. Now you get it what, 60% of the time? Unless you main support. You get your role FAR less now in high elo than you used to.

Mysticman89Jun 1, 20162 votes

The old system of people just calling out what they wanted?

Surely the the distribution of high elo <role> mains is the same as before, so it's not clear to me why people wouldn't have been out of luck more often than not in the old system, rather than 95% getting what you wanted.

And I mean if just calling out what you want and organizing yourselves worked then, isn't that still an option in the new system? People can still totally ignore whatever the system assigns them and organize among themselves, and just use the system assignment as a tiebreaker if theres disagreement.

ParoeJun 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The old system of people just calling out what they wanted?

Surely the the distribution of high elo <role> mains is the same as before, so it's not clear to me why people wouldn't have been out of luck more often than not in the old system, rather than 95% getting what you wanted.

And I mean if just calling out what you want and organizing yourselves worked then, isn't that still an option in the new system? People can still totally ignore whatever the system assigns them and organize among themselves, and just use the system assignment as a tiebreaker if theres disagreement.

Calling out what you wanted was generally a blind pick thing. In draft, most players respected pick order.

GeauxxJun 1, 20162 votes

in high elo, most people respected what others call out, unless they were generally a person who played the same role. High elo is more understanding and compromise than the "im here first so i get what i want".

AptestNov 24, 20161 votes

in that case, high elo is also bronze and silver. because people respecting others and letting them get the popular roles is definitely my experience.

Demon King MaouJun 1, 20161 votes

Generally i just hit "FILL" when i que anyways then i just pick a champion i like and go from there Sure people get mad at me when i don't play the "META" but is there any rule saying i can't play something im good at as support or jungle? no .. No there isn't

AptestJun 1, 20161 votes

A) The % effect of support-player-shortage on queue times decreases as your elo increases. A.1) Reason: The ELO-dependant part of queue times increases to the point of becoming the dominant factor. B) The absolute effect of support-player-shortage on queue times is Elo-invartiant (I.E. does not change with Elo).

Looking at queue times, the way to make them shorter is to make more people play support. The people who play support come from 3 sources:

Main support players. How to increase number: make support role more attractive. Main issue with support role lack of player agency. Increase agency by reducing agency of other roles (agency is relative) specifically jungle and mid, replace redundant costly useless stats from support items (mana regen overabundance in support itemization) and replace with combat stats, re-purpose play-making items (zonya, protobelt) and counteryplay-removing items (sheen line, specifically luden's echo and iceborne gauntlet, hextech revolver and blade of the ruined king) into support items, find ways to encourage support roaming and support lane switching.
X primary /support secondary players How to increase number: These guys get to play support all the time so they learn not to use this option. Make this option only yield support 30% of the time and we'll see a bunch of people using this pick option.
X primary / fill secondary players: How to increase number: These guys get to play support all the time so they learn not to use this option. Make this into a lucrative option by prioritizing these players over the mid / top choosers. If you pick this, your chance of getting your primary should be greater than the guy who put a high demand secondary role to try and ensure his primary.
Fill players How to increase number: **Force people to choose it. **

kyocrisisJun 1, 20161 votes

So you're worrying about Diamond+ but also complaining about IP grind. People that are that high elo more than likely have tons of ip/champs anyway.

I play a few days a week and have several champs for each role and ip to spare, as well as 4 rune pages and extra runes as well.

This will only decrease Q times and you could always exit Q and Re-Q, if you're worried about it in lower elo's.

OleandervineJun 1, 20161 votes

If you don't have champions other than your role, you deserve to lose. Flexibility is what makes a great player great, and it also helps a good player understand how each role functions and how best to counter each role at various stages of the game. If you don't have the champ pool and role knowledge that would make getting filled into any role a simple thing, maybe you need to reevaluate your own skills. Also, it is incredibly easy to get a few champs for roles you don't play. A few good games and your first win bonus will get you Annie, Ashe, Soraka, or Garen (if you don't have him for free), and within a few days you can have all of them. All of these champions are quite viable, and if they're not, a good player can at least make the best of it if it comes down to it. You make it sound like getting champions is this long drawn out chore, and it is if you want nothing but 6300 champs. As it is, there are a vast many good champions at the lower ends, so your argument about having to blow real money or grind IP falls really flat on its face when you have champs like Garen and Annie dominating in certain areas of the game.

It all boils down to this - would you rather sit in queue for 30 minutes waiting for your ZOMGIMAINZED role, or would you rather wait at most 10 minutes and actually play the game? For me, I value my time, and games are a way to escape. Being in the game is escaping. Waiting waiting waiting is not. So get versatile and learn other roles, you'll be a better player for it.

AazzlanoJun 1, 20162 votes

I have every champion.

Does that mean I deserve to lose if I get someone on my team that doesn't have champions for the role they got autofilled to?

Also, what you say is objectively false. You don't need to have a broad champion pool to be good, in fact, you can perform better with a select few champions or in a single role or a single position. That's why pros play a single position and rarely deviate from it. You perform at your best on your best position/role. Why do I deserve to lose because someone can't play a role they got autofilled to? Or that they cannot perform at Diamond level?

For example, if I got ADC, my team would be at a huge disadvantage. I am terrible at ADC. With that said, I am still far better at ADC than most players ever will be, by the simple virtue of being a better player, but I am not able to consistently carry in the role and will perform subpar FOR MY RANKING on that role. It's not that I cannot play the role, it's just that I am not at the level a Diamond adc would be at. Like if I played on a smurf and only played adc, it would take me a lot longer to climb than it would on my main roles. I would still easily stomp bot lane until mid-high plat, but is that what my Diamond team wants, a mid-Plat adc? No.

And yes I would rather wait 30 minutes for my role than get a random ass role. Apparently there will be a notice that the autofill is active, and I will NOT queue during this time. Not only because of the risk of getting some random role, but the risk of some random getting a role they don't play or are not specced for. No thanks.

AmelieJun 1, 20161 votes

I was under the impression that high elo people figured out roles amongst themselves since many of them queue "fill" to lower the times. I don't see how auto-fill is any worse than old draft pick, where you were stuck with whatever you got due to pick order (but could still communicate preferences).

AazzlanoJun 1, 20161 votes

Not sure what gave you that impression... but as far as I've seen, it isn't how it is. If anything, trading is relatively rare.

And the reason it is worse is because it is taking the only benefit that we've gained since the previous seasons, and throwing it out the window. Now we will have bigger premades (even if its only 3, still worse than 2) as well as more boosted players compared to previous seasons (since you can still premade to Diamond even with the change) and now you can just like, not get the role you picked (or someone on your team)

So it's basically all the bad things of Dynamic Queue and none of the good things from the New Champion Select.

HOWEVER, now that I have found out that it will give a notice when auto-fill is in effect, I have changed my opinion. Now I can know when not as many people are queuing up to have a quality game, and will just not play at that time. Queue times being high means less people are queued, meaning less possibility of getting an even match. More possibility of putting terrible players on my team. And now the possibility of getting auto-filled. So instead of waiting 20 minutes and STILL getting a shit quality game on top of getting my off-role (in the current system), I can just see the notice, not queue, then play when a better match is available.

AutomatisJun 1, 20161 votes

The downfall of high elo one tricks

RIP Annie Bot

Mountain WardenJun 2, 20161 votes

I always fill. I think this game is more fun when you get to move around and not always play the same champ in the same lane. Variety is the spice of life!

lArmorlNov 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mountain Warden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n6G8u4rx,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-06-02T02:39:35.995+0000)

I always fill. I think this game is more fun when you get to move around and not always play the same champ in the same lane. Variety is the spice of life!

You must like playing support then summoner 3

A GreY BuSh Nov 20, 20161 votes

This is not right. If I decide to sit for 5 minutes because I am best with a role, then thats my choice. To be forced to support, because thats most likely open is bs. I do not want to q into a game and play for an hour if I did not pick that role! q dodge at its finest.