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Eve feels really, really bad with the change to her W

Aazzlano··88 votes·5,126 views

Passive - Shadow Walk COOLDOWN ON ENTERING STEALTH 6 seconds ⇒ 6/5/4/3 seconds (at levels 1/6/11/16) W - Dark Frenzy REMOVED GOTTA GO FAST Spell hits no longer passively grant stacking movement speed NEW ULTRA RAPID FRENZY Spell hits now lower Dark Frenzy's cooldown by 1 second

Long time eve main here (since season 2) I was really concerned with the removal of her stacking movement speed passive on her W when i first saw it on PBE, but I wasn't really sure how it would pan out overall with the addition of the cooldown lowering mechanic. After experiencing the change, honestly to me it feels really bad. Like.. her movement speed was absolutely gutted with this change (previously granting 16/32/48/64/80 flat movement speed which was just completely removed, which also scaled with her % movement speed gains from her build and such), and I don't really feel the cooldown reduction is satisfying at all, ESPECIALLY considering it already resets on kills/assists.

like yeah its cool to use her W more often but the whole thing is that it has a great impact on her playstyle in general, being mobile in fights and such in order to avoid and kite. This has been horribly nerfed.

Honestly I would give up her stealth going back to 6 seconds, hell I would even take it as a straight nerf and have it at 7 seconds, if the W change were to be reverted. It is just horrible and has ruined the champion for me :/ (and I've stayed with her through so many nerfs and changes, but this is just... ugh)

89 Comments

Oleandervine29 votes

Evelynn just needs an overhaul. She's a mess from all angles. She's got the vaguest lore in the game; She's got a schizophrenic kit that doesn't know if she's a tank, a mage, an assassin, or a bruiser; she's got a gaudy, juvenile model that looks like it's still rocking the N64 graphics. She's just a mess. Riot says they can't balance her because perma-stealth can lead to huge problems with her. In my eyes, they ought to just remove it and give her temporary stealth similar to Twitch, just so long as it would mean that Evelynn will become playable and cohesive.

ShadowParker2 votes

There's an item on PBE right now called Mandrake ward. It's an item designed specifically for stealthed units. What it does is it doesn't give vision, but when an enemy comes within X units of it, the item gives off a ping saying someone is there. If they manage to pull off the item.(It's been in testing for awhile) They will be able to safely buff eve due to her permastealth not being a problem anymore during laning phase.

Celeste Benal5 votes

Perma-stealth might be viable if the Mandrake Ward can detect her.

KingKong235026 votes

I knew I would run into one of the other 5 Eve players about this. It is a terrible change. Honestly, I don't need the stealth to make me disappear faster. What I need is to be able to stick to people during my assassination attempts. I mean really, at least the old W could keep you attached to someone. With this new W, you have to use it to gap close or you can wait, either wait that's it. Didn't get them in 3 seconds? Off they go. Why would they Veigar buff Eve

InvisaBishh17 votes

The W change is not good in the situations where you need it to be good. It's only a buff when you are being chased, it's a nerf for everything else.

DynamiteGazelle15 votes

And even then, the old passive helped plenty with escapes too. No reason for this change, and it just shows the balance team knows nothing about how Eve is played.

Jesus is Savior5 votes

{quoted}

And even then, the old passive helped plenty with escapes too. No reason for this change, and it just shows the balance team knows nothing about how Eve is played.

No, what shows how little the balance team knows about how she is played.... Is the fact that they actually called it a "buff" LMAO

kcStranger14 votes

I don't play Evelynn, but just thinking about it...

The cooldown on Dark Frenzy is 15 s. Even if you proc the reduction multiple times and have some CDR, how often are you really reactivating that ability in a single fight? So many fights are just over in the 6-10s (minimally) that it's going to take. The old ability gave you a movement speed bonus right away that had a chance to impact the fight right away; the new ability at best will probably just help with cleaning up a won fight or getting away from a lost fight (which isn't nothing, but isn't the same thing as actually helping you win the fight).

To be honest, I think this is a similar problem that happened with the Kassadin nerfs. They nerfed the ability but decreased the mana/cooldown to compensate. But, the most critical moments of an engage are usually the first few seconds, i.e. the first activation of the ability.

The only good news (I hope) is that they seemingly intended these changes as a buff so if Evelynn indeed performs worse they'll probably give her more love in the somewhat near future.

Rinky Dinky14 votes

Change would have been great.... IF IT DIDN'T ALREADY RESET ON A KILL

WADDAFUCK

The best part is, the labeled it as a buff. Not overall, but the w change specifically!

WADDAFUCK.

The passive buff was great, but they just removed one of her core mechanics. She can't even chase people down anymore -_-

kcStranger2 votes

Ha, I didn't even realize the ability reset on kill/assist. This change is horrible.

BLU Medic8 votes

As someone who has never played or properly understood Evelynn, I looked at this change and thought it was a nerf. Surely movement speed is better than a 1 second cooldown reduction?

Skia Asteri5 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLU Medic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=75zNKFJO,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-03-26T12:43:55.453+0000)

As someone who has never played or properly understood Evelynn, I looked at this change and thought it was a nerf. Surely movement speed is better than a 1 second cooldown reduction?

The cool down is better in the rare case that Q is consistently hitting multiple enemy champions or in a slightly more common case where you used W to get in range for a five person ult as it gets reduction per target so it comes off cool down fast enough to matter, and it there are slows that you need to be removing.

In small skirmishes where Eve is actually good these occurrences are especially rare.

BLU Medic2 votes

So basically it's useful once in a blue moon then. Pity.

LeeDark8 votes

I really don't understand why an ability that resets on kills ALSO needs another method of reducing the cooldown. Completely idiotic change.

Fear Popo7 votes

I feel awful about the change as well. Its a huge nerf, literally 80 less MS in teamfights. Frankly, I really want them to revert the nerfs to her ult that DFG caused. It's out of the game, make her useful again.

Borfin7 votes

It completely removes Eve's stickiness.

Eve is officially shit tier. I fear no Eve now.

Sorceress Soleil2 votes

I'd have to agree with this.

manbearswine5 votes

Did she need compensation for dfg removal?

Tentacle Love5 votes

And they don't have an excuse for it. We told them when we saw the PBE patch notes that it was a nerf and a bad one, and they said they'd consider changing it back if it didn't do what they wanted.

Apparently there aren't any Evelynn players at all on the PBE or in their internal testing pool. Go figure.

Abyssphere4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Love Tentacle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=75zNKFJO,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2015-03-26T16:41:21.354+0000)

And they don't have an excuse for it. We told them when we saw the PBE patch notes that it was a nerf and a bad one, and they said they'd consider changing it back if it didn't do what they wanted.

Apparently there aren't any Evelynn players at all on the PBE or in their internal testing pool. Go figure.

They did say the changes were in large part to do with a guy in Riot who plays Evelynn a lot, so at least one guy who actually plays Evelynn likes the changes. But his claim was that "it feels really nice to weave in and out of team fights stealthing and speed boosting" and I just don't think something that "feels nice" is enough to compensate for removing her chase potential, which is so core to her.

Jesus is Savior3 votes

{quoted}

They did say the changes were in large part to do with a guy in Riot who plays Evelynn a lot, so at least one guy who actually plays Evelynn likes the changes. But his claim was that "it feels really nice to weave in and out of team fights stealthing and speed boosting" and I just don't think something that "feels nice" is enough to compensate for removing her chase potential, which is so core to her.

Plus with 80 flat MS, triforce, and Luden's Echo.... Old Eve could weave in and out of teamfights better than new Eve ever can. You got a kill, and boom, 700+ movespeed. :(

InvisaBishh2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Love Tentacle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=75zNKFJO,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2015-03-26T16:41:21.354+0000)

And they don't have an excuse for it. We told them when we saw the PBE patch notes that it was a nerf and a bad one, and they said they'd consider changing it back if it didn't do what they wanted.

Apparently there aren't any Evelynn players at all on the PBE or in their internal testing pool. Go figure.

I played the changes on the PBE, but you cannot compare it to live, at all. I felt like it was a good change, and even now in live I don't actually feel it past early game.

Vermonster3 votes

How was it a good change? Maybe nobody else has tested the effectiveness that this change has had on her q. But she is being outrun to the point where her q is failing to even do ANY damage in several instances while she chases. Gut her ult, Gut her w, and gut her q. But hey. Dont worry her useless invis reset is lower. Incase you somehow get into a fight, do nothing with your useless kit, manage to get out without dying, with nobody in sight, and no DoT effects, then you get to be invis. Granted your whole team is dead and youre useless, but you turned invis..... yayyy. thanks riot. This is what us Eve players always wanted. item 2010 have a cookie for successfully gutting Eve even harder.

And btw, i too played on the PBE and posted multiple times on others boards to Riot that the changes should not be made, and that they helped Eve excel in no way, but infact nerfed her speed and her stickiness and her q doing damage in several instances (more than half the time it seems). Riot just did not listen.

Unedible5 votes

Wouldn't it be better if auto-attacks worked with the CD reduction? I mean geez...

AkabaneKun4 votes

Once again riot shows how little they understand Eve playstyle, just rework her again already.

AngelSpite3 votes

Her designer should work on her.

straight4free4 votes

Knew the instant I saw the patch notes that this was actually a nerf. Don't know what Riot was thinking.

rikelol3 votes

It's Evelynn. They don't buff her, what they only do are changes to her kit. She was trolled three times in a roll. 1) "double mana regen" - changed from 1% max mp to 2% current missing mp; 2) E applies on-hit effects, E no longer procs on-hit spell items ¬¬; 3) 16-80 MS removed to add a reset mechanic (even tough by the time you can actually get it even you are already dead or u already got the kill/assist and so her old reset). This is sad, i also thought the changes to her W would help her.

But the only real buff she received was to her shadow walk. The other ones simply aren't buffs, they are changes - maybe nerfs. Riot always remove something in order to compansate somewhere else in her kit. Wouldn't surprise me if in next patch Riot "buff" eve again adding some % hp regen to her passive in order to help her sustain, by removing the mana regen passive from shadow walk LOL

Aegis Meliae3 votes

Revert W change. Give her some variation of her old ult ... I think it was the second iteration of Malice and Spite?

Then maybe she can be an auto-attack based AD assassin again. I really miss playing her in Season 1, using ult to dive towers, getting the reset and a chunk of HP back on kill, then racing on out of the tower again. I dunno... maybe that's a stupid wish. That ult was basically broken down into her W and E anyway. I'd just like to recapture how she felt back then.

Why is it that in the 4 seasons I've been playing League, the vast majority of that time one of my favourites is considered 'weak'. Why is that allowed. Hell, people used to pick Eve just to make someone dodge in champion select for the longest while. I had to talk people into trusting me when I wanted to play her. We have the terms "Eve tier" and "Eve-d" when talking about something drastically weaker or over-nerfed than everything else.

Bah. Whatever. I'm just salty and frustrated.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

I think you mean "Olaf'd"

Althought I would agree, Eve'd would be more fitting.

Vermonster1 votes

Both terms exist. Olaf was just broken prior to being Olaf'd so more people use it. Eve was never broken in the early seasons of the game, or even played at a high level. She was nerfed because the community bitched about her people refused to buy vision wards.

Too bad Riot doesnt listen to the community, statistics, and the pros and nerf Nid. But now I've gotten off topic

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Buffing tanks was a nerf to nid, if you have not realized that.

That aside, I cannot say much about the original eve gutting, but from what I have read, she was broken due to

A: Stealth

B: Hard CC

and

C: Some of the highest Burst Damage in the game

Then she was reworked into the weird ass champion we have now.

Jesus is Savior3 votes

I actually Eve'd my way to gold one day before this nerf.

And man, am I ever glad I did. Because I don't plan on playing ranked ever again this season with this gutted horrible version of Eve Riot gave us by "buffing" her. It was not a buff.

Dar Raksada2 votes

It's dfg compensation, just like Veigar and morde got.

Jesus is Savior2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=75zNKFJO,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:55:25.962+0000)

It's dfg compensation, just like Veigar and morde got.

It's kinda sad, because my plan was to Eve my way to Gold before the "experimental maybe never released mandrake ward" got pushed to live, without Eve/Shaco/etc getting any compensation.

Then actual real Eve nerfs came. lmao

KaisadiIIa3 votes

They substituted a really common mechanic (gaining movement speed for hitting spells) for a new mechanic we've never seen before: cooldown reduction after landing a basic attack.

kappa

Now seriously, I know this pretend to be a buff to Eve (at least that's what RIOT said), but I can't see how. She lost her mobility in teamfights, just to give her a CD reduction she doesn't need because, as you said, her W completely resets on kill/assists.

Also, they want to "force" a "enter in stealth > deal damage > retreat > enter in stealth > deal damage > retreat > ..." playstyle that may seem cool, but it's actually useless in a serious game.

NavyDivea3 votes

While I completely agree that the change is horrid and eve has become UP as hell am I the only one disturbed that Eve has become a fighter rather than an assassin? When you think assassin you think Zed, Leblanc, Talon, Akali, pre-nerf Kha'zix, people that delete squishy champions in 1-3 seconds and don't really need to "stick" that hard. Her original kit and pre-DGF nerf rework let you do her job and assassinate select targets and GTFO like a good assassin should. Now shes like "hi, im ganking you with minimal damage that I had to use my W just to pull off". I Know Riot is afraid to over buff any jungle assassin but come on, with tanks taking over again its time to let jungle assassins back in too.

Awoof2 votes

Honestly, I don't think her assassin play is impossible. (at least not for reasons that make fighter possible) I just see her as the best that LoL has for a hybrid champ, I'm generally happy for any way that Eve works. (being primarly played as one doesn't mean you can't do the other) I'm not against making the AP assassin a little more viable of course, but if that would come from making the AD path more useless I'd be salty.

Ironhand2 votes

The issue is is that if Riot makes Evelynn good again, she will be another version of Vi/J4/Fizz and would be the only jungler picked. They want diversity and they fear that if they make Eve and Elise a bit too strong somehow, it will force out champs like Naut, Voli, etc

Abyssphere5 votes

{quoted}

The issue is is that if Riot makes Evelynn good again, she will be another version of Vi/J4/Fizz and would be the only jungler picked. They want diversity and they fear that if they make Eve and Elise a bit too strong somehow, it will force out champs like Naut, Voli, etc

This is baseless fearmongering. Evelynn being good does not make her automatically the only jungler who can be picked. She is far from a generalist and would push nobody out of the jungle.

InvisaBishh2 votes

See i'd be fine with the changes to her W if they gave her some compensation buffs for the lost movement speed. Firstly, increase her base MS from 340 > 350. Then i'd like to see them either remove the decaying portion of her hatespikes so she can actually chase.

Greenheath1 votes

Just played her. I was surprised when it read spell-hits, not auto attacks for the CD reduction, but it seemed fine to me. Idk it really helped to chase people down, or to just get the fuck outta there when bard screws up his ult again.

I went cinderhulk and it seemed to really help her sustain problems. I think she's a lot better right now.

I ain't no season 2 eve main however, so what do i know?

Riv x Kobe3 votes

{quoted}

Just played her. I was surprised when it read spell-hits, not auto attacks for the CD reduction, but it seemed fine to me. Idk it really helped to chase people down, or to just get the fuck outta there when bard screws up his ult again.

This makes no sense. How does the change help with chasing compared to her previous passive?

This is a bad change, I haven't even tried her with this nerf and I know its garbage. How? Because gaining movespeed on spell casts was/is a much better mechanic than reducing the cooldown on this ability (especially since it already resets on kills/assists). It gave you more freedom to choose to weave/run around the target or run away, it also made it so you didn't have to hit W every time it was off cooldown to go fast, you saved it to get away/chase faster(if you needed it) or, more importantly, to remove slows. Now you are using it as your only chase and escape option on top of what it already does. Its harder now to decide if you want to save it, because you have to use it to chase and escape.

Anyway, I really want this reverted.

Edit: Or leave it, but add it so AAs give the stacking movespeed. Or better yet revert it and add in that AAs reduce the cooldown.

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riv x Kobe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=75zNKFJO,comment-id=001d0000,timestamp=2015-03-26T19:16:39.374+0000)

This makes no sense. How does the change help with chasing compared to her previous passive?

The passive gave 16/32/48/64/80 flat ms. The active gives 30%/40%/50%/60%/70% ms. Convert this to flat ms: 95/115/134/153/172 flat ms. So the active is better at every level.

The question is now, how much CDR do you need to get the spell back after 3 seconds?

E hits twice, therefore it reduces the CD by 2 seconds. Q and R can hit multiple targets, therefore they can reduce the CD by multiple seconds at once. But lets say you hit only 1 champion.

The combo is WRQEQQQQQQQQ. The calculation is difficult but here is the result:

With 0% CDR you need 7 seconds. (8 seconds without using R) With 10% CDR you need 5.5 seconds. (6.5 seconds without using R) With 20% CDR you need 4.8 seconds. (5.0 seconds without using R) With 30% CDR you need 3.5 seconds. (4.2 seconds without using R) With 40% CDR you need 2.7 seconds. (3.0 seconds without using R)

Jesus is Savior4 votes

{quoted}

So the active is better at every level.

Except the active stacked with her old passive.

So your 80 flat MS would also get multiplied by 70%. Your 80 flat MS also stacks with any % movespeed items you buy (like Luden's or Triforce).

Eve moves waaaaaay slower now.

Widder882 votes

[{quoted}](name=UdyrWwYi Jg ONLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=75zNKFJO,comment-id=001d000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-27T14:02:21.849+0000)

Except the active stacked with her old passive.

So your 80 flat MS would also get multiplied by 70%. Your 80 flat MS also stacks with any % movespeed items you buy (like Luden's or Triforce).

Eve moves waaaaaay slower now.

Yes, if have already hit 4 spells and the W is still active or after getting a kill it is a nerf, because the passive will just be missing. But the additional bonus movement speed is reduced by movement speed softcaps.

Lets do the math: With Tier 2 boots Eve has 385 ms. The W active+W passive boosts her ms to 491/522/555/589/625 The W active alone boosts her ms to 480/500/519/538/557. That is 2%/4%/6%/9%/11% less than with active and passive.

The W passive alone boosts her ms to 401/417/433/442/465.

I think what Riot should do is, to give Evelynn just her old W passive and the new CD reduction passive.

FirstSergeantBim1 votes

Now I don't play Eve, but when I saw the changes on the PBE, my first thoughts were positive. I mean, the ability to break CC is rare in this game while the ability to gain speed is common. Furor, Trinity Force, MoveSpeed Quints, Luden's Echo, Iceborne Gauntlet, etc. Theoretically, the ability to break CC more frequently would give her more potential overall because she can find extra movement speed so many other ways.

Assuming you are able to get 40% CDR (which is entirely possible and easy to get by your 2nd or 3rd item) your Dark Frenzy is going to be on a 9s CD, 3s of uptime makes 6s of downtime. However, it does seem like she needs additional compensation for the stacking movement speed.

Now I'm not trying to tell all you Eve mains that you're doing it wrong. Not many champions have the ability to break CC and I bet if you could accommodate your builds to meet the new change, you might find it works out. Maybe sacrificing gank potential for team fight potential will make Eve a stronger champion. With jungle tanks becoming more popular, it's likely this game will shift to more team-oriented play. Just a possibility, try to keep an open mind.

Lord knows I'd love to play Eve, but she just seems kinda clunky. Base movement speed and her Q projectile doesn't seem fast enough. If a champion is a fragile, melee assassin then I feel like they should have a MINIMUM base movement speed of 350. Additionally, if their main ability is a 500 range projectile on such a short CD it better fly out of there FAST and it ought to be a skill-shot instead of some random attack move mechanic. She has so much potential, but it seems like nobody on the balance team wants to touch her without the new Mandrake Ward.

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted} MoveSpeed Quints

Eve's early Q damage was gutted several patches ago.

If you don't take damage quints (usually AP), you're fucked.

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