So Soraka's ultimate will remove Grievous Wounds before healing now... (PBE)

darkdill··7 votes·3,019 views

Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/09/911-pbe-update.html

That's nice, but there's something else that should remove Grievous Wounds as well: CLEANSE.

Seriously, why doesn't Cleanse remove GW? It'd make perfect sense, since giving it to Heal was OP. It'd finally become the hard-counter to Ignite that it was meant to be. Sure, might not work against an Executioner's Calling, but it'd still be acceptable against other stuff.

12 Comments

sp4413 votes

Yeah, sounds fair, you trade in mobility or damage for a better chance of surviving a last-ditch ignite.

Because really, we need to give more reasons to use the other Summoner Spells. Right now there's no reason to use anything outside of Flash, Ignite, Teleport, Heal, and the occasional Ghost.

darkdill1 votes

Took the words right out of my mouth. +1

Although Cleanse already purges the Ignite damage, it doesn't purge the GW. You still will lose a trade fight if you Cleanse an Ignite because your lifesteal won't work.

Old Man Teeto1 votes

Yasuo is glad you don't bring summoner 3

sp4411 votes

Nobody cares about what Yasuo feels, he's the human teemo.

Kao Atlantis2 votes

summoner 1 It's a cool idea, but the mechanical reason why cleanse doesn't remove Grievous Wounds is because cleanse only works on crowd control effects, and grievous wounds does not come with any CC.

item 3140 Quicksilver Sash on the other hand, is designed to work with all Crowd Control Effects, Damage Over Time and Debuffs. It also works on ignite and exhaust.

I don't think it should be changed as I believe it would be too powerful early game. However, I would like to see other people's opinions on it.

darkdill2 votes

Here's the thing, though: If you take Cleanse, you can't take Ignite or Teleport (since Flash is generally mandatory). That means for that early-game anti-Ignite, you give up something.

As for Cleanse removing GW, GW is essentially a quasi-CC in that it negates lifesteal, spellvamp, and other combat healing which some people rely on. If you're going to still say "it's not a CC", then it can be made an extra exception that gets removed by Cleanse.

67chrome1 votes

As for Cleanse removing GW, GW is essentially a quasi-CC in that it negates lifesteal, spellvamp, and other combat healing which some people rely on.

Counting Grievous Wounds as quasi-CC is a huge stretch - one which essentially counts all debuffs as quasi-CC.

Main difference between QSS and Cleanse is all debuffs vs. CC as well. Cleanse removing the DoT of Ignite is the only exception to that I'm aware of (it doesn't even remove the %DR of Exhaust). DoT's of Teemo, Darius, Cassi, and more are unaffected by Cleanse, same deal with armor-shred debuffs, %damage reduction debuffs, and so on from the likes of Urgot, Malphite, and Black Cleaver.


The big problem with Cleanse isn't that it's not amazing vs. Ignite though - it's that there are quite a few CC effects it simply doesn't effect. Knock-ups, Knock-backs, Flings, pulls, suppression, localized slows. A solid 1/3 of the champions in the game have something that counts as one of those "true damage" types of CC, which makes Cleanse pretty useless against actual CC heavy champions. Out of Alistar, Singed, and Blitzcrank - all you hit is Blitzcrank's 0.5 second silence.

Which makes Cleanse extremely unreliable and unappealing at doing what it's advertised as doing. Also - only Suppression and Silence actually disable the capacity to cast summoner spells that don't fall into the 'mobility' category, allowing Barrier and Heal to be cast in pretty much every situation Cleanse could be (barring silence). As it's entirely possible to run into champions like Alistar with CC completely unaffected by Cleanse/Tenacity, or it's entirely possible to run into champions like Corki, Zed, Ezreal, and Nidalee that have no CC or very weak CC - Heal and Barrier are just way more useful in most situations. Iceborne Gauntlet's slow is unaffected by Cleanse or Tenacity as well, so there's even Cleanse/Teancity-immune CC in items.

With Cleanse - you almost have to play Draft to know if it's a worthwhile spell to run. I still see it occasionally on Vayne against the right teams, but overall - it's extremely niche.

Dominion is the only map I've really been happy with running it in blind pick, as Jax, Pantheon, and Teemo are pretty reliable opponents to run into - and removing their CC can offer a significant edge against them. With a 5v5 brawl you can also easily focus that 1 guy you can actually cleanse CC away from, where in Rift you're generally matched with 1 opponent and can't go headhunting for any opponent.

MrBuffington1 votes

I never understood why QSS is more powerful than Cleanse. Most other (viable) summoner spells are more powerful than similar items (no item lets you Flash, Ghost works like Youmuu's active + PD passive, Teleport has no similar item, Heal and Barrier...I mean, I guess there are shield and heal items, but they usually aren't as powerful, or at least something that the person taking heal/barrier would get. Like, Mikaels heal and FotM shield might be stronger, but they're both support items; QSS is definitely an item you could get for ADC/mid)

Kao Atlantis1 votes

QSS is an expensive item that you wouldn't get early in the game, and cleanse is free. I would expect that QSS would be more powerful.

MrBuffington1 votes

Cleanse has like, three times the cooldown though, plus it takes up a summoner spell

Ironclad Dragon1 votes

Sure. Why not?

Hawkefire1 votes

I'd love to have this on mundo.

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