Can Darius be less obnoxious to lane against as a melee?

feintfiend··5 votes·1,565 views

I saw a suggestion that Noxian might is unlocked when he levels his R similar to Evelynn's passive.

He's way too strong against melees. I'm sure other melee toplaners know that shitty feeling of becoming a glorified melee minion because Darius zones you out for 25 minutes.

Also the fact that Darius can stack 5 bleeds on a tank than instantly transfer them to a squishy doesn't seem fair.

16 Comments

Smokin Penguin2 votes

doesn't seem fair.

Life's not fair!

team really bad2 votes

He has clear and easy to beat weaknesses.

TheSingularity4 votes

To be fair his Q is the only spell with counterplay. He kind of just wins unless you picked the right champ

team really bad1 votes

He's a short range melee juggernaut with no mobility, so he should have some power when it comes to close range fighting. You also need to remember a lot of his power is in his q and I'd argue almost his entire kit has counterplay. His passive damage is negligible provided you dodge his q and avoid long trades. His e has an extremely short range and is fairly easy to bait out most of the time. Noxian Gulliotine is reliant on stacks as well, which if you avoid his passive, you shouldn't be taking much damage from.

TheSingularity2 votes

The issue is most top laners aren't good at short trades. Another comment below mentions a few that come to mind that can go in, avoid Q, wack him a bit then leave. However for other juggernauts, some divers/skirmishers or just about any tank. You fight long or you don't fight at all because they lack both an engage and disengage spell. Or you are forced to play an uninteractive champ like gp or singed.

eg kled/renek dash in and out. jax jumps in, stuns then runs out, irelia dashes in then out. I know because I can do it, kled's my go to vs darius

If you pick a counter, u have a chance at winning provided you (not the darius) don't fk up. If you don't you lose and die no matter what.

Few champions are like this and imo any champion that requires a narrow pool of champs be picked just to have a chance, has flaws in their design. Another champ that ppl have problems with: Donger, while able to zone you doesn't have amazing kill pressure if you know what he does. You can let the donger shove, farm ur wave and repeat.

Edit: if push comes to shove, let's agree to disagree <3

feintfiend2 votes

{quoted}

He's a short range melee juggernaut with no mobility, so he should have some power when it comes to close range fighting. You also need to remember a lot of his power is in his q and I'd argue almost his entire kit has counterplay. His passive damage is negligible provided you dodge his q and avoid long trades. His e has an extremely short range and is fairly easy to bait out most of the time. Noxian Gulliotine is reliant on stacks as well, which if you avoid his passive, you shouldn't be taking much damage from.

"His passive damage is negligible" This made me chuckle

team really bad1 votes

PROVIDED you dodge his q and avoid long trades. Understand context lmao.

feintfiend1 votes

{quoted}

He has clear and easy to beat weaknesses.

Why do people say this. If someone picks Darius into your melee top laner get ready to get shit on for 20 minutes or be half his farm and a level or 2 down with little counterplay other than enter his Q, but if you do he will outdamage and kill you. Also your jungler will be afraid to gank since its a fucking Darius who can transfer 5 bleed stacks which is so bullshit

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

No Noxian Might until level 6 doesn't sound that bad, but the instantly transfer max Hemo stacks needs to be there or his ult late game is kinda useless.

feintfiend2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=muz2w5ol,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-21T13:18:06.009+0000)

No Noxian Might until level 6 doesn't sound that bad, but the instantly transfer max Hemo stacks needs to be there or his ult late game is kinda useless.

If he keeps the instant transfer of stacks than his 550 pull range should be decreased to 500 because his pull makes his lack of mobility irrelevant since he can just pull + W + R to instakill a squishy with his 5 stacks

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

If he keeps the instant transfer of stacks than his 550 pull range should be decreased to 500 because his pull makes his lack of mobility irrelevant since he can just pull + W + R to instakill a squishy with his 5 stacks

Actually, pull range is only 535 according to LoL wikia:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Darius

But yes, 500 range sounds fine. It's not like it's that big of a difference, I don't think it'd break the champion as a whole.

TheSingularity1 votes

Tbh you just need a champion with a decent dash, which you use purely to escape or to get within the inner ring of his Q. Fiora Illaoi Renekton Kled Irelia Jax

Or a champ who wins simply because they can YorickSinged Teemo

Will agree he's a bit too strong vs melee, as without one of these champs you have almost no chance of winning. Personally I'd make his Q hitbox smaller, remove the armour pen from his E and/or change his passive to magic damage or lower true damage (so it doesn't stack cleaver)

feintfiend4 votes

{quoted}

Tbh you just need a champion with a decent dash, which you use purely to escape or to get within the inner ring of his Q. Fiora Illaoi Renekton Kled Irelia Jax

Or a champ who wins simply because they can YorickSinged Teemo

Will agree he's a bit too strong vs melee, as without one of these champs you have almost no chance of winning. Personally I'd make his Q hitbox smaller, remove the armour pen from his E and/or change his passive to magic damage or lower true damage (so it doesn't stack cleaver)

Singed doesn't beat Darius , Darius is actually one of Singed's hardest counters Irelia can't even lane against regular bruisers so what makes you think she can lane against Darius lmao Illaoi only wins post 6 Teemo kinda counter Darius early game but at level 6 Darius can just pull him in and kill him in one ability rotation, since Darius' pull is longer than Teemo's range Fiora needs to be much better than the Darius, which is honestly bullshit since Darius is a huge crutch champ and way too oppressive for such little skill

Vanic9981 votes

I’m glad my main counters all juggernauts Velkoz. I know he’s not melee.

D357R0Y3R1 votes

where did you see that suggestion

DarukongSr1 votes

This post doesn't really consider just how many melees stomp Darius even from behind. I don't mind if he's less of a lane bully, but then he darn well better be compensated with better mid/late game scaling as he is super easily outscaled or simply made useless due to endless CC and kiting. Not to mentioned his naturally high ho and armor growth are near useless in this meta. Literally any mobile or AA reliant fighter (excluding Camille or irelia, who are still more useful) outscaled him post 6, sometimes even before, and often with fewer items. Examples you may ask? Jax, tryn, fiora, and even Yas these days. These three are my bane, and guess what? They're all melee. Who else beats dar in lane these days? Or at least post 6? Mundo, aatrox, Yorick (always), teemo (depending on itemization and kiting skill), jayce, quin, heck even yi. Most other champs can at least wait out the laning phase without feeding, this causing dar to have a miserable mid and late game contribution. His pull isn't nearly as OP as people make it sound, as it is long CD( usually longer than the opponent's dashes), and unlike a dash, cannot be used to escape, only to engage or sustain a fight. As mentioned by others it is short ranged. Dar also has the slowest base AS and scaling in the game. His q is highly telegraphed and easily punished. Any mobile champ (including riven) has the potential to our play darius. If they are of equal experience or more than the dar, then they are nearly guaranteed to bully and harass him with him being able to do very little at least until he grabs a few items to keep up. Even garen, who is countered by dar, can outplay or at least outsustain Darius due to his passive and not being Mana reliant. All of this counterplay and don't even get me started on team fights when the enemy has a vayne, annivia, malz, brand, or orianna lol. Dar is only good when other people screw up, but unlike them, he doesn't really have the same upside or contribution. Even when fully stacked and fed, he can have a difficult time reaching his targets and executing them, even if they're barely more than a pull away. He can't split push worth a darn even with tri force because of bad escape, and his objective control is garbage. Perhaps you guys should just admit that Darius is more frustrating to play against or as, than he is actually op. If you remove anything to fix that, he will need compensation because he would literally drop to like 40-45% winrate (he's only about 48% right now).

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