The predominant mids in competitive are already heavily poke/sustained damage oriented and nerfing RG (especially its active) just makes that style more dominant. We need items like RG to be strong so that we don't get a Varus, Jayce etc. every game. Long-range and poke is countered by hard-engage or it is simply a risk-free win. RG is critical to this. The only other counter to a poke comp. would be split-pushing and that's not something you can itemize for as well.
Sire Hippington7 votes
, you can itemize for splitpush....
anyway, poke comps dominate proplay lately, and i haven't seen RG in soloQ ever since the release, so i don't know why it gets nerfed. it neither is problematic, but rather needed in current pro meta, as it's a counter to the current poke strategie, and it also dosn't seem relevant in soloQ for me...
Dengeden8 votesThe item is still great on supports and junglers, I've seen it used in almost every pro game.
LongSh4dows1 votesI think everyone who isn't buying pure damage/AP uses it. ;)
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mtOdhl53,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-04T11:08:02.163+0000)
anyway, poke comps dominate proplay lately, and i haven't seen RG in soloQ ever since the release, so i don't know why it gets nerfed. it neither is problematic, but rather needed in current pro meta, as it's a counter to the current poke strategie, and it also dosn't seem relevant in soloQ for me...
since were already at this topic.
can we give the portal some more useful stats please? resistances without health have kindof become useless since the resistance formula was changed. and stat wise, its stepping on the toes of g.a. why would anyone every buy portal, if he needs an armor/mr item when ga exists?
even if its just changed into a a pure health + cdr item with kindlegem, it would feel more useful.
Sire Hippington1 voteswell, i guess the idea was that Zz'Rot's Portal is reason enugh to get i by times(and i actually love it on Shen) It also gives more stats for the same gold as GA. And for resistances without health: you can get it with an HP Item, like Warmong into Zz'Rot.(FH and thornmail also give resistances withou health and still get bought often) However, i agree that the stats could be slightly buffed, like 65-70 of both, even for 50-150 more gold. This would also increase the gap to GA, so GA is bought for the revive, Zzrot for hybrid defstats... thoug like mentioned early, Zz'rot should actually get it'S niche through the active rather than the stats, but it happens to also give a niche combination of stats.
Wheatloaf2 votesIt's been used in competitive to essentially turn every comp into a hard engage one, which wasn't really the intention of the item. It's supposed to help with engage, not be it. So they're nerfing its stats to make sure the ones picking it up are doing so more because of the active than just because it has good stats on top of it.
atomicwit6 votesIt's been used in competitive to essentially turn every comp into a hard engage one, which wasn't really the intention of the item. It's supposed to help with engage, not be it. So they're nerfing its stats to make sure the ones picking it up are doing so more because of the active than just because it has good stats on top of it.
The active CD was nerfed on the PBE too and that's my main objection.
Wheatloaf2 votesI think there was also the problem with it filling sort of the same space as Talisman (which is sort of Riot's fault, isn't it?), so I guess they're tying to make the cooldowns a big difference between the two, besides just the stats they offer? They buffed the hell out of Talisman's cd a few patches ago, so I'm not sure how necessary nerfing Righteous Glory's cd is. Since competitive teams are still building it in essentially every game, though, it probably needs something. Or maybe the supports that use Talisman need some love. Who the hell knows.
Sire Hippington1 votesactually, nerfing the stats rather than the active means it gets reduced to hard-engage on a stick. You would pick it on champs that don't need the stats that bad but want an engage option. The whole point of the item was to enable soft-engage comps.
Also, if it would be all that effecktive as hard engage, poke comps hardly would dominate as they do in proplay, as hard engage is the counter to poke.
Mandang01 votesAre we talking about pro play or soloQ?
Pro play has both poke comps and Righteous Glory. Solo Q I honestly see RG but not the Varus mid stuff (and Runeglaive Ez is already nerfed).
Sire Hippington1 voteshonestly, i rarly see RG in sloQ, sometimes on support or jungler, but not often. While varus mid isn't as comon, i see alot ap-ez, jayce, nida and lux lately.
VDc0zCqe0w6 votesdon't nerf one of the most broken items ever abused by a totally broken class of heroes (aka tank supports) making botlane a shitfest of tank support vs tank support every game?
what?
RisenDarkKnight4 votesI think it needs a minor nerf (it gives so much hp when talisman gives no real combat stats), but this is ridiculous. They buffed it from 500 hp to 650 because no one was building it, then they nerfed it to 600. Now they are nerfing it back to it's original state but also increasing the cooldown by 50%. It's like riot is screwing with us. ("Hey guys this item is good we promise. Oh you figured out it was good, so we are gonna nerf it a ton now because we don't actually like it when people use the items we encourage them to use.")
Aboylova922 votesI didn't see that they were nerfing it, but that would be really disappointing. Hard engage kills teams like that. And if you nerf it, it's only going to make it that much safer to pick some extreme poke team with less counter play to it.
Mandang02 votesIt's like the opposite of what's true at support, where hard engage is already pushing everything else out and poke supports are largely irrelevant.
Sire Hippington1 votesthats not really a problem itroduced by RG though, Tank supports are easier to use in ganks/all-ins, they have more snowball potential, and they are a bit saver if catched out of position.
However, if we look at Eu-LCS, Janna or morgana can still be dominant if used well. I've seen Sona, Lulu and zyra succede in qoloQ, and annie still is a high priority pick(janna, sona and even zyra are still the highest overall winrate supports with naut, based on champion.gg)
Mandang01 votesWell, I like to look at the different types of playstyle in a rock-paper-scissors fashion: hard engage beats sustain, sustain beats poke, poke beats hard engage. Given that we were playing in the cinderhulk/tank meta, I think it makes sense that players moved toward poke and disengage (Janna, Zyra) champions to deal with the hard engage jungles/tops. However, I think the problem is that Riot's historically broken the legs of decent sustain champs. That's where players should be going to beat poke - to poke's counter. IMO Riot trying to prop up hard-engage in its intended weak matchup is only going to enforce the meta.
Sure, I like what RG adds to the game, but where's my item to counter hard-engage? And, while we have item counters to sustain, I think it's clear those items could be a lot better, maybe even an active instead of a conditional passive. Basically, I'd just prefer Riot completes the rock-paper-scissors triangle rather than keeping players out of playing sustain (which propping up hard engage will do).
ShuffledPancake1 votesJayce and varus arent top 5 mids or adcs..
Dengeden1 votesWith pretty much every top laner jumping into those poke oriented mids when TP is up, I doubt they'll be too dominant.
buster kiton1 votesMaybe we'll see more supports going talisman now.
LadyRenly1 votesI don't even use RG, I tend to have it used against me, but I'll agree. I see the value of it not being tampered with. It ain't broke, so don't fix it
Schlachsahne761 votesIm tired of Maokai so nerf it
atomicwit1 votesToo late! LOL!
ofart1 votesIt seems to have been stalled a day but it's going through. I find this very disappointing and think that Riot underestimates the desperate need for RG to remain a powerful item (not one you have to make big sacrifices for) in the current meta.
I also hate the instability in the items too. I like to theorycraft and test builds. It's really frustrating to have items constantly tweaked back and forth within just a few weeks. It's also just pretty silly and shows a lack of competence if they constantly feel obligated to do this so frequently.