Kai'sa has a learning curve and counterplay. She does not need buffs. Dont pull another Ornn, Riot.

Frontline Fury·Mar 16, 2018·3 votes·1,213 views

I saw the PBE changes. That Kai'sa has a different playstyle that is difficult to learn does not necessarily mean she is weak. Please dont buff her through the roof just because people do not take the time to learn her - you did the same thing with Ornn, and we all remember how that went.

I understand that Kaisa has a weak early game, but her late game is already on Vayne level.

On a side note, Riot Jag is the real MVP.

https://i.gyazo.com/de38f4eeb87dce9aa868e8a43a017bfc.png

11 Comments

DOUBLE TAPPED EMar 16, 20182 votes

I love how everyone who's replied to the thread agrees with the OP but it still has more downvotes than upvotes.

TormentulaMar 16, 20182 votes

There is like no reason to pick Kai'sa over vayne unless you have a CC lock support so you can kill pressure and scale a lane.

All the kai'sas I seen pop off and the times I popped off, the games would've been over 10 minutes sooner on something else. A really fed kai'sa can be disgusting, but so is a really fed vayne, trist, xayah, draven, list goes on. Like nobody has given an arguement what her strengths are and why she shouldn't be buffed.. even the OP says "I understand that kaisa has a weak early game, but her late game is already on Vayne level"... ok so is she weaker then vayne early? weaker then vayne mid game? stronger or weaker then vayne late game? Why pick her and not vayne? Is there more or less counterplay to kai'sa compared to vayne? Is the mastery curve + results similar to vayne? How's laning in comparison? How does the support pick affect their preformance? Vs. what comps and in what comps would vayne or kai'sa be better picks? etc.

I don't think "learning curve syndrome" is the huge factor for her abysmal winrate after being out long enough.

Difference with ornn was his entire design trolled the players in the game. He wasn't mechanically hard, but his ultimate was tricky to get a good feel for at first, and on top of that the champ literally noobaited everybody with his passive.. his teammates were rushing items they shouldn't be rushing and losing the game for him, and he was doing the same thing sometimes as well.. "ooo bordered items, gotta get this ASAP it looks better then the regular item!". The buffs weren't necessary, the noobbait locks on his items were and thats when the real learning curves for everybody started to set in, a few weeks later then his release.

Kai GuyMar 16, 20181 votes

Adaptability. From the start of lobby your able to have more viable runes then vayne. Your item options are wider then vayne. You can be a strong late game champ with multiple AD item builds, with Hybred Rageblade builds, With off meta Gunblade builds. She has some really Gross team comp synergy vayne lacks. She can get to and pick off a back line target a lot better then Vayne due with Teammates or W set up then R Q.

She's a solid late game, her early can be rough but not crippling. Biggest issues I have with Kai so far is she has terrible matchups with teammates that you have to be worried about. Shes can be risky, shes late game, she does not fill the same role vayne does and can thrive in a match vayne would be subpar, vice versa thou.

TormentulaMar 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mqF6J8Ft,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-03-16T01:14:35.838+0000)

Adaptability. From the start of lobby your able to have more viable runes then vayne.

If you consider this a strength. Its not about variety in runes that makes a champ more viable then another champ, its a matter of if a rune in particular stands out and syngerizes the best.

Sure kai'sa can use sorcery runes better then vayne most likely, but you're also weakening your attack speed for laning and losing out on lane sustain without fleet and maybe overheal.

That's also assuming there even is variety to begin with:

https://i.imgur.com/aNAAaFF.jpg

Your item options are wider then vayne. You can be a strong late game champ with multiple AD item builds, with Hybred Rageblade builds, With off meta Gunblade builds.

but are any of her builds in particular, stronger then a vayne with one singular build? Will a kai'sa that goes AD, on-hit, crit, AP, hybrid, etc still match a standard vayne build? Yea it might surprise their top laner if they go full armor and you go hybrid, but vayne doesn't care, she doesn't need variety in builds with how her kit works.

The only real variety we can bring up is vayne vs. kai'sa outside the bot lane, but we don't know for sure if kai'sa is actually viable in those positions in comparison to other picks. (seen one really mean AP kai'sa mid but it was against sona mid so my expectations are in the air.)

She has some really Gross team comp synergy vayne lacks. She can get to and pick off a back line target a lot better then Vayne due with >Teammates or W set up then R Q.

She's a solid late game, her early can be rough but not crippling. Biggest issues I have with Kai so far is she has terrible matchups with teammates that you have to be worried about. Shes can be risky, shes late game, she does not fill the same role vayne does and can thrive in a match vayne would be subpar, vice versa thou.

Fair enough

Professor WardMar 16, 20182 votes

ive supported a lot of kaisa, and anything other than nautilus is the weakest lane in game.

You are required to run massive cc for her to be effective at all early.

PhantomPranksterMar 16, 20181 votes

i also believe she doesn't need buffs

Kai GuyMar 16, 20181 votes

I'm with Masked/Op/Hands on this one as well.

Taliyah RocksMar 16, 20181 votes

Agreed, especially since she has a tendancy to pop off out of nowhere.

Like, she won't do shit of the whole game, but suddenly the other team does a mistake, they all get low, Kai'Sa jumps in and cleans up, gets a triple or quadra, and then she snowballs into oblivion from there. A good Kai'Sa is great at punishing mistakes and turning it around.

She's a very deceptive champion. She's not as flashy as a Vayne going 1v5 with the big outplays, but her kit makes it easy to punish mistakes and snowball from there.