Dear incompetent design and balance team. You've ruined Garen.

DarwinTheory··2 votes·1,256 views

I know this is difficult to find the time to fix between the lines of drugs and hooker parties you get up to. But you need to fix Garen.

Garen was nerfed during the juggernaut rework. His early game was gimped, his E and silence gutted and then you shortened game length. He was absolutely guttered. His E isn't even viable in teamfights anymore with its reduced damage.

Garen was then systematically nerfed further via buffs to other champs and itemisation and ever shorter game times.

You then gave Garen a token 20 DMG Q buff then removed it months later when the noob low Elo players cried because Garens pick rate rose and you didn't give the community time to learn his weaknesses.

Currently the following champs gimp Garen:

Teemo Darius Renekton Keenen Sion Nasus Trynd (yes Reddit tryndmains list Garen as EASY. Thornmail doesn't work Vs conqueror) Vayne Lucian Jhin Heck even a good Riven now counters him!

Speaking of which have you laned as Garen vs any ranged now? With minion pathing being useless and damage so high it's a joke becoming a game of survival and praying. Juggernauts like Garen should have bully or at least surviving potential v ranged but after you gutted his E and Q all a Garen can do vs a good ranged is hit a little and run away before he is burst down......

It's also well documented at Gold Garen hits a wall where it's almost impossible to climb. Garen used to be viable higher before the jugernaught rework.

It's so bad Garen can't even counter Riven anymore. Again, just visit Reddit garenmains and see just how bad it is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GarenMains/

Garen is a dead champ. You killed him.

11 Comments

Dr Dog4 votes

garen only has a sub 50% winrate in 2 elos those being diamond and iron, garens not a dead champ hes a beginner champion with better outlined weaknesses making him worse against the more experienced and even then hes fine in plat and in masters+, id rather look into real stats than opinions on a sub where the bias is gonna be pretty obvious

and P.S his 20 dmg nerf wasnt because of "low elo crying" its because he was a top tier top laner across all tiers and was well deserving of said nerf

DarwinTheory1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mo18ykF1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-31T12:21:36.488+0000)

garen only has a sub 50% winrate in 2 elos those being diamond and iron,

and P.S his 20 dmg nerf wasnt because of "low elo crying" its because he was a top tier top laner across all tiers and was well deserving of said nerf

What are you on? Garens Q was nerfed because low Elo cried and the only reason they cried was because he started getting picked and noticed. Nothing more. That 20 DMG reduction was a placebo nerf to placate players because any Garen player with a decent skillset knows full well the core playstyle is farm, q if attacked and disengage until mid game and then try to be relevant.

And that's a fact. 20 Q DMG up or down does nothing for him.

Oh and you're wrong Garens winrate is below 50% in Plat. Diamond and above.

A buff isn't going to break him in low Elio either. You know why? Low Elo is an utter coin flip of randomness that's why. It has no consistency. No structure. It's random and that's why he should not be balanced around it.

Oh and one more thing....pre jugernaught Garen had a lane bully weak late powerspike. Back then he was much stronger, his E did full DMG to more than one person if hit, more damage at lower levels, and he could built crit with old IE. He wasn't running around then with insane winrates was he??

Dr Dog2 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/

doesnt look sub 50 to me and neither does his high win rates in lower tiers either, his q dmg nerf was because he was maxing q and trading way to well with one auto and grasp which again was a problem at ALL TIERS AND HE HAD A HIGH PLAY RATE IN ALL OF THEM just because a champions is a low elo curb-stomper doesnt mean every issue they have is low tier crying, he doesnt need buffs and a beginner champion having a eh winrate in higher tiers is expected because they are again a BEGINNER champ

DarwinTheory1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mo18ykF1,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T18:58:26.563+0000)

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/

doesnt look sub 50 to me and neither does his high win rates in lower tiers either, his q dmg nerf was because he was maxing q and trading way to well with one auto and grasp which again was a problem at ALL TIERS AND HE HAD A HIGH PLAY RATE IN ALL OF THEM just because a champions is a low elo curb-stomper doesnt mean every issue they have is low tier crying, he doesnt need buffs and a beginner champion having a eh winrate in higher tiers is expected because they are again a BEGINNER champ

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen

Below 50. So either one sites wrong or both are.

And for 7 seasons he wasn't considered a beginner champ. Stop trying to rewrite history, he was viable at high Elo in the past.

Dr Dog1 votes

below 50 over 3.8k matches in the past 2 days whereas my stats are overall from the entire patch thus far, and hes always been considered a beginner champ because he is literally designed as a beginner champ and was in the og 3 beginner champs where have you been?

Saezio3 votes

They need to either A: Ignore iron-gold players and buff garen as he is or B: Change him and give him a bit more skill expression than being able to hit W before CC hits you, in order to raise his potential ceiling and lower his floor.

Moody P2 votes

I agree buff Garen

kingDeDeDarius1 votes

I'm no garen main or anything, but why not buy into his coursgeous/in-built tenacity by being able to gain charges or perhaps absorb cc for fellow teammates. Perhaps he would need compensating nerfs but it would give him utility and or healthy skill expression to give him a little more depth. Here's my ideas and they could be trash: He could gains stacks on Q for every cc he eats. The stacks last up to 30 seconds and can be gain by slows, stuns, roots, etc. Only one stack per cc type, but things like rylais brands could tick his stacks 5 times. Each stack increases q damage by 5% until five stacks when q damage goes up to 50% bonus damage. After five stacks, each stack increases silence duration by .05, and at 10 stacks his q will deal 75% bonus damage, 25% longer silence duration, and healing equal to tenacity % times 300 plus (i.e. at 30%, .30 times 300 =90) plus 5/15/25 per stack. And sorry I'm lazy and do the want to rewrite, but the healing would begin at 5 stacks. This would reward garen for some patience and buying more tenacity and give a little in fight sustain along with select burst. The charges can only be consumed on champions, can only be held for 30 seconds, and must be activated by double tapping Q. This would also reward garen for protecting teammates before making his move in certain matchups. Against Darius, a full Darius combo would apply four stacks to garen (w slow, e knockup, e pull displacement, e slow. A teemo combo would apply multiple as well (q blind, r slow, one stack per second of slow). Of course I won't pretend that these are the right numbers or that I have any clue what would have to be nerfed to compensate, but I think this would be a rewarding type of mechanics that is more satisfying than the villain mechanic and more in line with his character.

Another mechanic could be that garen could activate a cc absorbing mechanic in small aoe field. He could absorb half of the cc duration and half the damage when holding w down as opposed to when he merely taps w for his normal steroid.

Moonscourge1 votes

Dear low elo player,

Garen is viable in high elo, what's your point? He is extremely binary, he cannot be changed without losing that part of his identity as a beginner champion and he is too good at what he does to get a Warwick-scale rework anytime soon.

Düff McWhalen1 votes

Give Garen's spin a slow and his W gives tenacity. Buffed.

DarwinTheory1 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gQ5XWJNa-sion-is-a-strong-pick-but-are-you-serious

Oh look people complaining about cheese picks top.

Said cheese picks counter Garen.

Missed out Aatrox too.

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