Make Cull like Eleisa's Miracle (disappear after requirements are completed.)

Irelia Bot·Nov 30, 2015·79 votes·2,820 views

When you get the 100 stacks from killing minions the item disappears from your items and you get 200 gold (might be more or less depending on what is needed to make it within reason) while the 5 AD, 3 on hit healing and the +1 gold on minion kills becomes a permanent buff for the rest of the game.

Now it has a reason to be bought over doran's blade which is overall more stat efficient. You don't have to bother with selling this version of cull it if you can farm. You are 80 health and 3 AD worse off for stats with cull making it a risk for a reasonable mid to late game reward.

35 Comments

OwntrolfNov 30, 20159 votes

Screw cull I want Elesia's Miracle back GLORIOUS HP/MP REGEN WITH HEAL CD REDUCTION \O/

ZT XperimentorDec 1, 20151 votes

I know right? They removed it because it made tanks 'too strong', meanwhile carries can 3 shot them from off screen.

Miku Lv99Nov 30, 20154 votes

That permanent buff is so small that losing the 100 more gold + the gold from selling it is probably more significant so this would probably end up as a nerf.

Irelia BotNov 30, 20154 votes

Would you rather keep the 5 AD and 3 on hit healing or sell the doran's blade?

I am trying to make it an option worth considering over Doran's blade not for it to overthrow Doran's blade in all situations.

also if you are trying to make comparison once the cull is fully stacked you have in effect payed 150 gold (assuming it gives 200 gold for getting fully stacked + the 100 from creeps) for 5 AD and 3 on hit healing. It is completely reasonable

If that is not enough then allow it to keep giving 1 gold on CS as part of the passive but reduce the gold given for it becoming a passive to 150. Basically it would be the late game alternative to Doran's blade either way.

KrinuNov 30, 20153 votes

I buy Cull on lanes I know I'm going to be farming for the mid-game power spike in. It doesn't have to beat (or even meet) Doran's Blade in terms of efficiency, as long as it still provides a bigger power spike later on.

Doran's Blade = I want to have a strong early lane, and build on that advantage to a good mid-game. Cull = I want to farm early lane and then wreck faces with a mid-game power spike.

Chicken4dinnerNov 30, 201523 votes

Dorans blade = my first 3 items don't have to be lifesteal

HayRossNov 30, 20153 votes

I can see it now: Cheese builds based off of getting as many item 1083 as possible and getting as many passives as you can

SteelflameDec 1, 20153 votes

full lategame build could maybe have 3.

Also, one big phrase...

"UNIQUE : Passive"

TeCoolMageDec 1, 20151 votes

It would work like tear... Which doesn't stack until you complete one.

Starfish HDec 1, 20153 votes

So you want the Cull to collect the money it needs, give you a small amount for compensation and dissappear? Wow sounds like my Dad. item 3070 summoner 7

Irelia BotDec 1, 20153 votes

do you want me to make it sound worse?

Based on this you were likely an accident.

Starfish HDec 1, 20155 votes

Nah I'm loved by my Mom! Everytime I talk to her she mutters "Should have aborted the mission." Wow that must means she's from the CIA or something!

Wait......

flibitydooNov 30, 20152 votes

...it already gives you 300 gold for hitting the 100 CS mark.... (which would make your change a nerf)

perhaps you mean raise the gold bounty to 500 for hitting CS cap and consume the item and it's stats.

Irelia BotNov 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

...it already gives you 300 gold for hitting the 100 CS mark.... (which would make your change a nerf)

perhaps you mean raise the gold bounty to 500 for hitting CS cap and consume the item and it's stats.

No I am not trying to make it a item that is overly rewarding like that

If the buff did however increase the gold from all minions by 1 after the item became a buff that might be realitic for making it worht starting with but not a huge boost over shawoing the vlaue of Doran's Blade.

So basically stats like Cull (450)

5 AD restores 3 health on hit Unique passive: minion kills give 1 gold and a stack to this item, When 100 stacks has been reached this item this item disappears form the item slot and becomes a permanent buff granting 200 gold when becoming a buff, 5 AD, restore 3 health on hit and increases gold from minions by 1.

It would pay for itself at 250 minions in this case making it a good late game investment for a bit of a weaker early game.

Besides you will likely be selling doran's blade in a long enough game. This is a risk VS reward option to get in place of Doran's blade. It should not be excesivly rewarding but 5 AD can do something in a game.

Chicken4dinnerNov 30, 20151 votes

That is too strong since it is largely more powerful early game then the doran's blade, when most people just want a kick to their snowballing. If you were to make it like that no one would buy a doran's blade as eventually they are going to sell it anyway and with better early game stats then doran's it becomes a must have (because eventually it drops from the slot and you get free permanent stats). Plus they get a kick of gold and farm better then anyone who is gaining equal cs throughout the entire game

EDIT: Correction cull has worse stats but better early sustain

Irelia BotNov 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That is too strong since it is largely more powerful early game then the doran's blade, when most people just want a kick to their snowballing. If you were to make it like that no one would buy a doran's blade as eventually they are going to sell it anyway and with better early game stats then doran's it becomes a must have (because eventually it drops from the slot and you get free permanent stats). Plus they get a kick of gold and farm better then anyone who is gaining equal cs throughout the entire game

EDIT: Correction cull has worse stats but better early sustain

It has no health and lower AD but basically comparable sustain overall.

It would still be give and take since 80 health can easily be a matter of life and death.

Chicken4dinnerNov 30, 20151 votes

I sometimes run 80 hp seals

FastAsHeckNov 30, 20152 votes

This is a great idea, but the 5 ad and 3 life are incredibly tiny mid-late game. You forget however that if it is consumed, you can no longed sell it, which means RIOT can make it give more stats when it disappears without making it unbalanced. You lose 180 gold (I think) because you can't sell it, so why not increase these stats as the game progresses to remain relevant? 15 ad + 9 life on hit sound pretty good at the 40 minute mark. It would also solidify it as the go-to scaling ad starting item.

Irelia BotDec 1, 20151 votes

It have it stay tiny so Doran's blade still has a reason to be bought instead of this item which is clearly capable of being more gold rewarding for playing passive and/or smart.

If you make it too rewarding no one will bother with Doran's blade because not taking cull will be hurting your power by about 15 minutes a fair amount.

Omega360Nov 30, 20152 votes

Well if you are going to make it disappear, at least make it disappear upon opening the shop next, so you don't lose the stats it gives (albeit not losing much) randomly, so that you have an opportunity to make up for that lacking of a healing source.

ChaddyFantomeNov 30, 20151 votes

lrn 2 read

Irelia BotDec 1, 20151 votes

When it disappears from your item inventory it becomes a permanent buff giving you 5 AD, 3 on hit health restore and + 1 gold on all minion kills for the rest of the game.

You get to keep the stats in addition to the 200 gold for reaching 100 CS.

FantasySniperNov 30, 20151 votes

You get back 400 gold, and deal.

Yordle XayahNov 30, 20151 votes

It's actually over 500 because you get even more when you sell it after you are done with it.

LorinneNov 30, 20151 votes

580g, 130g if you subtract the original cost of the item.

KaisadiIIaNov 30, 20151 votes

But you spent 450 to get it, so the benefit is marginal. One could argue that you got 5 AD and 3 HP on hit for free but I think that can't be compared with the stats Doran gives.

FantasySniperDec 1, 20151 votes

No, see, the point of his suggestion was to remove the "reselling" part of it, and just give a gold drop and permanent stat boost when you max the counter, removing the item automatically from your inventory.

Kr3wLTUNov 30, 20151 votes

It should also refund Cull's full price upon respawning to the base and the 1 gold on unit killed should be permanent too.

Anu3isIINov 30, 20151 votes

I loved to build that item <3 (RIP with old Karma)

Your idea sounds pretty cool , and I had some concerns about it , but the fact that your suggestion affects the game when people have already built 3-4 items , kinda makes it fair (taking into account the fact that its stats are that significant as in case of Eleisa's Miracle).

I Main SwainDec 1, 20151 votes

wouldnt that be worse? after all, you would be getting less gold for hitting 100 stacks and you wouldnt get the gold from selling it...

Irelia BotDec 1, 20151 votes

Let us put in in context.

This is making it so that you get 200 gold + 1 gold for every creep killed so in a long game (should long games ever return) when you get to 250 CS this item has payed for it's cost while also giving you 5 ADand 3 health restored on hit which no longer is taking up an item slot once you get the first 100 CS. And yes if you were to get 600 CS in a game for some reason you would in effect have a net gain of 350 gold from this passive.

On the other hand you have doran's blade. When you reach the point where you would be selling a doran's blade which in a long enough game will happen you only get 180 gold back for it.

Once you get to that 100 CS threshold this version of Cull is all around going be have been a better investment in the long run the doran's blade unless you were either killed because of the lack of health or barely didn't get a kill on an enemy champ within like 30 health of them dying.

In reality this would make Cull an item to consider in lanes that are most likely to be a major farm fest such as Ashe and Soraka VS Janna and Ezreal.

It is a decision that you have to calculate for yourself based on your ability to CS and what is likely to actually happen. As such I do not expect it to be a good item for bronze 5 players who are not good at CSing but for players who are good at CSing this item might be a worthwhile investment with real consequences be them good or bad for choosing it.

The idea is not to make Cull all around better then Doran's blade but to have a clear reason to be bought over Doran's blade in some situations which it is somewhat lacking in it's current live form.

Irelia BotDec 1, 20151 votes

At 100 minion kills you would get to keep the 5 AD 3 health restored on hit and the + 1 gold on minion kill passive in additon too that 200 gold while it no longer takes up an item slot.

It is not worse especially if you have a longer game.

OyddAWqJ5rDec 1, 20151 votes

It's extremely efficient in lanes you know you'll win and know won't have a problem with the enemy jg. Unfortunately those conditions are pretty impossible to meet at higher levels of play and even then sometimes you want Doran's to hold an even greater dueling edge over your opponent. All in all i agree it's rather lackluster.

The life on hit should dissapear honestly since it's kinda adverse to what you would be doing in a farm lane. Instead they should change it to be 10 life on minion kills.

My Waifu VanillaDec 1, 20151 votes

Or just bump up the health/AD on Doran's and remove that item's lifesteal so there is no competition in that department that way Doran's is clearly made for fighting champions (with better combat stats) and Cull is for farmfesting on minions (with better sustain stats). I am not saying that your change wouldn't be better (in fact they should probably do both) but Doran's and Cull do need to be looked at at the same time since they offer too many "similar" stats.

OyddAWqJ5rDec 1, 20151 votes

That makes extreme amounts of sense. Doran's really doesn't need the lifesteal. I do think the reasoning for it though is that it establishes a want to hit minions more aka push more to get more out of the lifesteal. So in that regard removing lifesteal may actually make those stale bot lane matchups even more stale (not that freezing won't happen anyway, but now shoving is a worse idea).

But I do agree with the overall concept that Doran's should be a 0 sustain 100% offense oriented item whereas Cull should be THE farming item. Perhaps instead bump up the lifesteal on Doran's but make it only affect basic attacks against champions?