Lulu need some mirror changes

CoolKnightST··4 votes·584 views

I really like Lulu support but I feel her existing kit limit her actions by a hugh amount. Her playstyle is really trade oriënted what makes her really difficult to ballance out in solo lanes. I want to discuss some changes:

Stats

  • Base Mana Regen. 7 (from 5)

Glitterlance This ability has been nerfed really really hard to ballance out toplane Lulu. Even if abilities are hard to compair since every champion has their own kit. I would like to compair Karma's Inner Flame. Stat based it's like a copy of the ability. The only differents between them is that Glitterlance has a lower range, higher mana cost, higher cooldown but a more powerfull slow. In the perspective from a poke support Lulu is kinda Q depended since she can use it single or in combo with her E. I would like to see a slight change to Glitterlance to compensate for her nerfs on the toplane:

Cooldown: 6 seconds (from 7 seconds)

Whimsy This ability I would like to see again. What I would suggest is:

Mana cost: 80/75/70/65/60 (from 65) Cooldown: 16/15/14/13/12 (from 18/16.5/15/13.5/12) Ally Cast now gain 40% movementspeed (+ 5% per 100 AP)

What changes do you think Lulu and how are you towards the changes I suggested. Just let me known ;)

Credits

  • Ghiefelstein: Stats discussion

7 Comments

Ghiefelstein4 votes

The reason support Lulu does not use her Glitterlance more is her mana, not the cooldown. Solo lane Lulu can afford to buy mana regen, so she will benefit more from lower cooldowns and higher early mana costs. My fear is that your changes would make solo lane Lulu oppressive again while hardly helping support Lulu.

CoolKnightST1 votes

The reason support Lulu does not use her Glitterlance more is her mana, not the cooldown. Solo lane Lulu can afford to buy mana regen, so she will benefit more from lower cooldowns and higher early mana costs. My fear is that your changes would make solo lane Lulu oppressive again while hardly helping support Lulu.

Yes it's indeed an problem. I looked into the mana & mana regen of Lulu and the number are really low for a poke support:

  • Mana lv 1: 255
  • Mana Regen. lv 1: 5.5
  • Mana lv 18: 1190
  • Mana Regen. lv 18: 14

If you compair the mana value from other poke supports:

  • Karma: 340-1190 Mana, 7.45-18.5 Mana Regen.
  • Zilean: 320-1340 Mana, 7.60-18.7 Mana Regen.
  • Sona: 310-1075 Mana, 7.65-18.7 Mana Regen.

It's really impressive that Lulu's Mana Regen. is 2-4 points lower than any other poke support... Lulu has the 3th lowest mana regeneration in the early game. While in the lategame she's placed 7th. The only support that has lower mana regeneration than Lulu is Taric Taric...

You made a good point ;)

Ghiefelstein1 votes

It is actually really hard to buff support Lulu without making solo lane Lulu oppressive. For example:

Buff mana/mana regen: She starts to waveclear with Glitterlance. Her waveclear and poke become oppressive without mana gating. Buff CC: Lulu already has an AOE knock-up with slowing field, an 80% AOE slow and a polymorph. Any buffs give her Nautilus level CC. Buff cooldowns: She is primarily gated by mana so solo lane Lulu benefits way more. Buff survivability: Top laners already complain that Lulu is unkillable. Buff movement speed: Maybe, but her low movement speed (325) makes her distinct from other supports. Buff AP ratio's: Solo lane Lulu builds AP way more efficiently (magic pen, offensive masteries).

I see most in a rework of offensive E. Make it something interesting that is better with a lane partner. For example increases allied damage against the target or takes away vision for a short duration. Just my two cents ;)

CoolKnightST1 votes

It is actually really hard to buff support Lulu without making solo lane Lulu oppressive. For example:

Buff mana/mana regen: She starts to waveclear with Glitterlance. Her waveclear and poke become oppressive without mana gating. Buff CC: Lulu already has an AOE knock-up with slowing field, an 80% AOE slow and a polymorph. Any buffs give her Nautilus level CC. Buff cooldowns: She is primarily gated by mana so solo lane Lulu benefits way more. Buff survivability: Top laners already complain that Lulu is unkillable. Buff movement speed: Maybe, but her low movement speed (325) makes her distinct from other supports. Buff AP ratio's: Solo lane Lulu builds AP way more efficiently (magic pen, offensive masteries).

I see most in a rework of offensive E. Make it something interesting that is better with a lane partner. For example increases allied damage against the target or takes away vision for a short duration. Just my two cents ;)

That why mana adjustments on the abilities have to be made in combination with it. Mana sustain is something really important in the botlane. A support that is able to quickly restore mana has the ability to bully a lane. Lulu suppose to be a lane bully back in the previous season. She really need it to bully again. Still a note that currently I made her scaling unchanged what means even with this changes she still only have 16 mana regeneration. That's a pretty low number if you known most other supports have arround the 17/18 mana regeneration on level 18. Actualy she will still have the 3th lowest mana regeneration from all supports!! The only one she jumped over is Alistar Alistar. Her flat mana is actualy relative ballanced compaired to other supports. Like mentioned this would be a lane sustain buff for toplane Lulu. But I don't think this will be the gamebreaking change that would move Lulu back in the toplane. Not if you combine the Whimsy change with it what would be a hugh nerf for toplane lane. Maybe that combination is just what Lulu needs.

CC is indeed not the solution. Lulu has tons of CC.

With cooldowns I disagrea. Low cooldowns indeed gives a advantage in duel potentional. But this also counts for peeling and that was just what Lulu needed in her lane fase. You have to combine adjustments to create something new so the ability will be used effectly without having to rework her entire kit.

Lulu is indeed hard to kill. For that scenario the Whimsy would open more counterplay. A 15 increased mana cost is a big deal in the early game. Actualy an really big deal. Lulu will have to decide if she will use her mana offensive or defensively. If she tries someting aggressive with her W and it didn't work out she will pay the price. You already saw in the lcs how mana hungry Lulu can be. In the end she runs out of mana and the jungler can gank her for a free kill. Lulu is a verry inmobile champion. Without her W she has nowhere to go.

They already cut her AP ratio's in haf. This is the only reason why Lulu is a simple tier 1 top/tier 2 mid in solo Q. It's actualy only in team Q she's placed higher in the ladder.

The Enemy Cast E is indeed something really powerfull for the toplane and makes bush cheese really hard to pull off. However the revealing part is probaly something that defines Lulu and I'm not sure that it should be removed. I don't think that giving it a leona passive would solve anything on her E. Also any other alternatives would just make her kit stronger or would compleetly remove the function of using the E on enemies.

Champion Skin2 votes

Well it does make sense for Karma's inner flame to have a bit longer range as Karma needs to get around the minions while Lulu can just use Glitterlance right through the minion wave

CoolKnightST1 votes

Well it does make sense for Karma's inner flame to have a bit longer range as Karma needs to get around the minions while Lulu can just use Glitterlance right through the minion wave

Offcourse does this make sense. It are still 2 different abilities. However the power curse is still similar. That's why I decided to use that to compair it with. The reduced cooldown is actualy not intentended for giving Lulu support more damage. But to give her the feeling she needs to protect her carry. Currently 7 seconds is a big deal in the lategame. Most poke abilities that have as function to use it on a regualar basis with that flat and scaling damage often have a cd arround the 5 seconds on max rank. One seconds can really have a big impact for Lulu's early lane fase.

CoolKnightST1 votes

They buffed lulu Base Mana Regen before. They revert it the patch after that... Also they will never buff Whimsy just because it's to strong for solo lane lulu.

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