Something else to build from Phage

CoolKnightST··122 votes·4,673 views

Ever since patch 3.10 they reworked Phage and removed it from item 3022. This change made item 3044 pretty situational since ones you buyed it you realised you are forced to build it into item 3078. When you are looking to the other items that can be build from tri-force their plenty of options to go with:

  • item 3086 => item 3046 item 3087
  • item 3057 => item 3100 item 3025
  • item 3044 => item 3184 (not available on summoners rift)

Whe are now on patch 4.21 and still no changes. I think it's time todo something about it.

33 Comments

Bandle City Bot20 votes

I remember reading on another post on the forums about a proposed method of building it back into Frozen Mallet: Steal Move Speed from person on hit. Still does the same thing of effectively slowing down the opponent on hit, has the feel of phage speeding you up still.

If the revision of Frozen Mallet isn't an appealing idea, including Entropy on other maps might not be a half bad idea. Seems more for the offensive people who want bulk but still offensive power instead of bulk+defensive power (Omen comes to mind)

Third idea: Perhaps an On Hit giving item that is like the summoner spell Exhaust.. (Either extremely small amounts that stack and add up if hit in succession before the last one fell off or a moderately powerful one ala the slow in Iceborn Gauntlet.)

Kingsgrave4 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Shiny Psyduck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AuBzMmtw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-14T17:45:52.140+0000) I remember reading on another post on the forums about a proposed method of building it back into Frozen Mallet: Steal Move Speed from person on hit. Still does the same thing of effectively slowing down the opponent on hit, has the feel of phage speeding you up still.

If the revision of Frozen Mallet isn't an appealing idea, including Entropy on other maps might not be a half bad idea. Seems more for the offensive people who want bulk but still offensive power instead of bulk+defensive power (Omen comes to mind)

Third idea: Perhaps an On Hit giving item that is like the summoner spell Exhaust.. (Either extremely small amounts that stack and add up if hit in succession before the last one fell off or a moderately powerful one ala the slow in Iceborn Gauntlet.)

Lol that was my idea where I basically proposed Phage build into like 10 different items

The general idea is that by stealing MS you get a lot more out of it even if you are only effectively slowing them by 15% instead of the usual 35ish

Chaotic Reks1 votes

heh Malphite

Chaotic Reks1 votes

This would make more sense than its current build (pickaxe, giants belt, health gem = hammer?)

Elphrihaim16 votes

imo?

#Guinsoo's Rageblade (2730) Phage (1325) + Aether Wisp (950) + Recipe (455) 30 Attack Damage, 40 Ability Power, 275 Health, 5% Movement Speed Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks grant 20 MS for 2 seconds. Kills grant 60 MS for 2 seconds instead. This MS bonus is halved for Ranged champions. Unique Passive: Basic attacks and spellcasts grant you 3% Attack Speed and 3 Ability Power for 6 seconds, stacking up to 10 times.

Would be a perfect fit d:

ShadowNinetails1 votes

Would be except the game has been progressively moving away from hybrid builds and items for a long time.

Elphrihaim1 votes

{quoted}

imo this isn't a problem

The reason why hybrid items have been moved away from is because of cost efficiency reasons. The people that can use a hybrid item extremely well lose b/c they're going to have some nerfs based on the fact they can abuse the power of the hybrid item, but it needs to be strong enough for non-hybrids to still get use out of it.

My Rageblade incarnation does suffer from a similar problem, but I just wanted to combine some items that did not have a lot of build paths.

#Executioner's Calling (2500) Phage (1325) + Vampiric Scepter (800) + Recipe (375) 30 Attack Damage, 225 Health, 12% Lifesteal Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks grant 20 MS for 2 seconds. Kills grant 60 MS for 2 seconds instead. This MS bonus is halved for Ranged champions. Unique Passive: If an enemy you have damaged within the last 3 seconds restores Health, the healing is instead spread out over 3 seconds.

#Ionic Spark (2300) Phage (1325) + Dagger (450) + Recipe (525) 25 Attack Damage, 20% Attack Speed, 200 Health Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks grant 20 MS for 2 seconds. Kills grant 60 MS for 2 seconds instead. This MS bonus is halved for Ranged champions. Unique Passive: Basic attacks grant you 3% Attack Speed for 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. At 5 stacks, your next basic attack consumes all the charges and deals bonus Physical Damage.

I should just stop thinking

TheKingDodo1 votes

{quoted}

Ionic Spark (2300) Phage (1325) + Dagger (450) + Recipe (525) 25 Attack Damage, 20% Attack Speed, 200 Health Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks grant 20 MS for 2 seconds. Kills grant 60 MS for 2 seconds instead. This MS bonus is halved for Ranged champions. Unique Passive: Basic attacks grant you 3% Attack Speed for 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. At 5 stacks, your next basic attack consumes all the charges and deals bonus Physical Damage.

Rip Ionic spark :( can't handle it T_T

Killstrado1 votes

Hmmm why not just make a new phage item like hydra for melees only

8yVkmwxq0D1 votes

Man, I would love this on Eve!

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted} imo? 30 Attack Damage, 40 Ability Power, 275 Health, 5% Movement Speed Unique Passive - Rage: Basic attacks grant 20 MS for 2 seconds. Kills grant 60 MS for 2 seconds instead. This MS bonus is halved for Ranged champions. Unique Passive: Basic attacks and spellcasts grant you 3% Attack Speed and 3 Ability Power for 6 seconds, stacking up to 10 times.

Would be a perfect fit d:

If it gave entirely AD and was melee only I could see Riot doing it.

Oleandervine5 votes

I was under the impression that Guinsoo's Rageblade and the Frozen Mallet were both on the chopping blocks for being removed from the game entirely.

Edbwn1 votes

Nah, Riot has been kind of promoting the idea of Frozen Mallet recently. That Gnar guide one of the Rioters put out after his release suggested Frozen Mallet, and Rek'Sai has Frozen Mallet in her suggested items. As for Rageblade...you're probably right.

Solaxo3 votes

*bought

Elphrihaim6 votes

{quoted} *bought

"ones you buyed it you realised"

Really, of all the errors in that phrase, you ONLY CORRECT ONE?

xGvPx1 votes

lol item 3070

Pyro3 votes

Whe are now on patch 4.21 and still no changes. I think it's time todo something about it.

Current Phage is a placeholder. The fighter class is due for a huge rebalance, but it's still in design.

You can add a new Phage upgrade, but it's just a drop in the ocean. It doesn't solve any problems with existing items, only potentially creates new ones.

TheRainInSpain1 votes

Little off topic, but needs to be said too. If they'd only split the Fighter class into Fighter and Bruiser classes, Riot would go a long way to differentiating Master Yi from Mundo, both of which are "Fighters". All of the Fighters aside Ryze and Urgot are melee champions and WANT to get in your face, but there are "Carry Fighters" (Yi, GP, Tryn, etc) that act as a melee ADC, "Light Fighters" (Wu, Fizz, Irelia) that want to dive and disrupt, but aren't that durable, and "Bruiser Fighters" (Voli, Garen, Nasus) that have considerable bulk but don't have the hard team wide CC found on actual tanks.

The problem is that they're all classified as the same thing! (With some differences like comparing j4 and Yi's recommended items)

Enemy Bonjwa2 votes

Should just make frozen mallet an AOE slow like gauntlet except more slow less damage. Really just a garbage item on anyone without lots of gapclosers, and at that point why would you even need it.

Teridax681 votes

I'd really like to see item 3044 as part of an autoattack-centric item. item 3078 is good on a lot of AD champions, but mainly for those who cast spells a lot. On the other hand, there are tons of champion who would absolutely love to use Phage for its movement speed boost, but who just don't have spells on low enough cooldowns to make good use of Trinity Force.

For example, an AD + AS item that built from Phage and generated AD/AS stacks on-hit in a manner similar to item 3124 would make Phage a super-attractive pick for autoattacker champions, while also avoiding the issue of the item being too good on bruisers: Phage is a dream item on nearly every top laner due to its combination of tankiness, damage and mobility (all at a fairly low price), and implementing a bruiser item that built from it would risk making the item a must-pick in every matchup (one of the many reasons item 3022 was made harder to build).

CoolKnightST1 votes

I'm not sure whe need another asp item. I think it will be better to have one for AD bruisers & one for hybrids.

Teridax681 votes

I disagree on both counts: I feel any kind of good bruiser item with Phage in its build would be a must-buy in the same manner as pre-nerf item 3068 , since just purchasing it gives you cheap access to damage, tankiness (against all forms of damage) and mobility. Perhaps this would warrant a change to Phage itself, but I would be extremely careful about making an item that gives every stat a bruiser wants palatable to them in the long run, as well as the short term. I dislike hybrid items because they're only viable on a select few champions (hybrid champions are rare, and not every hybrid wants to buy hybrid items) and could easily be just as interesting if they were full AD or AP: hybrids could purchase those items and complement the AD purchase with an AP item or vice versa, which would make for a hybrid build, and non-hybrids could also have the option of building them without wasting too many stats.

Jillfinger2 votes

{quoted} I disagree on both counts: I feel any kind of good bruiser item with Phage in its build would be a must-buy in the same manner as pre-nerf item 3068 , since just purchasing it gives you cheap access to damage, tankiness (against all forms of damage) and mobility. Perhaps this would warrant a change to Phage itself, but I would be extremely careful about making an item that gives every stat a bruiser wants palatable to them in the long run, as well as the short term. I dislike hybrid items because they're only viable on a select few champions (hybrid champions are rare, and not every hybrid wants to buy hybrid items) and could easily be just as interesting if they were full AD or AP: hybrids could purchase those items and complement the AD purchase with an AP item or vice versa, which would make for a hybrid build, and non-hybrids could also have the option of building them without wasting too many stats.

I dont see that being a problem since abominations like Kalista exists.

Teridax681 votes

I dont see that being a problem since abominations like Kalista exists.

Wait... I don't see the relation. Why would Kalista or her kit have anything to do with AP/AD hybrids?

Rebonack1 votes

Rage blade should be remade as a hybrid penetration item. Just axe its low health passive and add in 20-25% resist pen instead. Just make sure that it doesn't stack with Whisper or Void.

As for Phage, just enable Entropy on Summoner's Rift. Then make Mallet Melee Only and give it the Cripple passive (target is considered Rooted, can't use flashes or dashes). That would be such a wonderful item to build against Riven or Fizz. The tears would be sweet.

Saevum1 votes

What about:

Phage + raptor cloak = ???

junglerboy161 votes

I like where this is going, maybe a more bruiser oriented split push item (Phage for the passive MS proc, and Raptor's cloak for some variant of point runner)? Maybe the Eagle maul, or something like that? The only problem is that it would have AD, HP, AND armor. That is a lot of different stats to have on one item.

TheRainInSpain1 votes

Frozen Mallet could give a speed boost upon hitting an enemy, rather than slowing down the target. We have a ridiculous number of slows in game. Nearly every champion has a slow, and the ones that don't tend to have hard CC anyways, or infinite mobility (ahem, like LeeSin)

"Time" freezes around a Frozen Mallet owner, allowing him to cover more distance.

Wullf1 votes

It is TODO time.

RyuPhalian1 votes

Don't forget Seeker's Armgauard item 3191 and Haunting Guise item 3136 which are in the same boat as Phage item 3044 . I know that Riot wanted to make Frozen Mallet item 3022 basically an AD version of Rylia's Crystal Scepter item 3116 but it seems they forgot to give Phage a second build path even though they said they wanted items to have multiple build paths.

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, the thing they forgot is that they think perma-slows are toxic. With Rylais, it can have a slow and be fine, since most spells have a long enough cool down that the target isn't always slowed. But FM's slow on auto attacks is broken and bad because it makes it so that the slow is constant after getting one attack off (since you can get them all off on the target). They really should just change its name and give it the normal rage passive (and of course build out of phage) it is a simple fix, and not anywhere near as toxic to play against since you can speed yourself away when not permaslowed. Seeker's should be able to build into either a support item (not likely, since most spring for a phony's who build AP) or a tank item. Something with a lot of armor, and then a bit of AP (It would almost make sense if it built into Iceborn gauntlet, but not enough to make it a good idea). Haunting guise should build into some sort of low AP high penetration item, or an item with an active (I've always thought that Haunting guise and Liandry's ought to have some sort of active to do with being masks).

Celeste Benal1 votes

I would like to see Frozen Mallet reworked. I can't remember how many times as an AD champ that I have wanted something that will allow me to stick to an opponent. But building item 3022 is often not a good choice because of its rather lack-luster stats and high gold cost of 3300 gold compared to other similar items.

item 3025 is the hybrid version. It gives much better stats, has an AoE slow, and costs significantly less at 2900 gold. But it depends on the spellblade passive to do its work.

Then there is item 3116 that does the same thing as icy, but only upon dealing spell damage. This item also costs only 2900 gold. But note that it gives a crap-ton of AP and not so much HP.

Poptart Evelynn1 votes

It needs a tanky route to buy. Sometimes you buy phage on bruisers but the game starts to lead against you so you don't have the luxury to finish tri and have to go tank. So it needs a tanky option.

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