Boards›Gameplay

Now that we're getting a tank update...

Melledoneus··9 votes·878 views

Can we get an item that reduces how much carries lifesteal off of tanks? I have had games where I stack armor and health and CC the enemy ADC, but god forbid they get mercurial, bloodthirster, and LDR and boom, I'm a lifesteal bag that doesn't last long.

I'm fine with not having Grievous wounds on a tank item (that'd be pretty f#cking busted), I'd like to see some counterplay to mass lifesteal. When a Leblanc gets out-bursted by a Jinx and your team can't kill an ADC because of AoE crit lifesteal, you feel useless because if you could find a way to convince your shitty Ezreal to buy an 800 gold item you wouldn't lose every fight.

Specific example, yes. But this is one of many. Even thornmail is useless against the mass lifesteal ADCs can access without impacting their damage much.

I only ask for the Randuin's for lifesteal. Like, 30% less healing from damage inflicted on you. Or something that applies a mini-grievous wounds exclusive between you and your attacker. This way you don't become a blood-bag for the enemy ADC.

16 Comments

dunder kill4 votes

Champs are balanced sold the existence of lifesteal. Thornmail also negates a lot of the effects of lifesteal anyway

Melledoneus2 votes

Thornmail is good early if your champion can utilize it or your enemy is someone like Tryndamere.

Otherwise it becomes just another item that becomes forgotten about, especially if the enemy carry gets MR.

Also, lifesteal should be something that helps carries restore health when they are peeled for, mainly to sustain back from AoE damage and attacks that do not kill them. Right now ADCs can become drain tanks thanks to the interaction between crit and lifesteal. Spell vamp used to have this issue, why can't lifesteal be dealt with, too?

dunder kill2 votes

I'm confused. You're saying it is only good if your champ can utilize it, but you're playing a tank right? How can you not utilize it? And how is it only good against Trydamere? Lifesteal only applies on auto attacks period. So if they're life stealing off of you they absolutely have to be auto attacking you

Melledoneus2 votes

{quoted}

I'm confused. You're saying it is only good if your champ can utilize it, but you're playing a tank right? How can you not utilize it?

Resistances are useless without lots of HP to back it up. Malphite and Rammus can utilize it thanks to how they interact with armor, but other than that not many tanks can build a thornmail and not have wasted an item slot for something far better. Additionally, most teams have an AP threat you must itemize for.

And how is it only good against Trydamere? Lifesteal only applies on auto attacks period. So if they're life stealing off of you they absolutely have to be auto attacking you

It's true it works on champs other than Tryndamere, but when carries have an item that ignores almost half the stats on an item like thornmail, you have no choice but to rely on HP items instead. Also, life-steal far exceeds thornmail's pitiful damage, so it's not like it's the be-all-end-all for dealing with excessive amounts of lifesteal.

I want something that specifically targets healing, not something that works on a niche few champions against a niche few champions.

dunder kill1 votes

You dont get to have that lifesteal GW for free. It would be an extremely powerful mechanic so there has to be power allocated to it. As a result of this, you aren't going to get an item with Armor, HP, and the AA GW you want. That item doesn't make sense.

Thrornmail does pretty much exactly what you want. It reduces a lot of their lifesteal by dealing damage back to them which cancels some of the health gained out.

The item you want already exists in the game

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Well thornmail is no synergy item. It's a counter item. And even against autoers such as jax, aatrox, Quinn, trynd, randuins is just better.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Thornmail is actually the exact item OP is describing: Its effect reduces how much ADCs can lifesteal of tanks, in more ways than one:

  • It gives Armor, which generally reduces the HP regained from Lifesteal, due to Lifesteal being a function of damage dealt
  • It gives a damage return effect, of which a part scales on damage dealt
  • The other part of the damage return effect scales on the user's Armor, thus scaling with both itself and all other sources of Armor you got

What people like OP like to forget is that Lifesteal is effectively supposed to help ADCs counter tanks, as it ensures that the ADC will not die to a tank's sustained damage output while retaining ADC's overall weakness to burst and being interrupted in their damage output (Survival by Lifesteal is tied to actively putting out damage). If Lifesteal was removed or even severely weakened, ADC average uptime will go down - which, to be balanced, would need to be compensated by giving ADCs more strength during the time they are alive.

And I don't want to play League in a World where every ranged AD can kill you like a Yi if he is not stopped by CC.

ShaolinToilet1 votes

"like randuins" then asks for 30 percent reduced healing.

Melledoneus1 votes

Randuin's is effective against crit carries because it reduces attack speed and damage from critical strikes.

doiminat0r36001 votes

summoner 14 item 3165 item 3033

I know some champions are meant to build tank, but if you really need GW, buy or take one of those. It may be counter intuitive, but itll be worth it (assuming your team mates are stupid and dont build it)

Melledoneus1 votes

Say I'm playing Shen and I need to build MR, armor, and HP for their team in order to survive. I need as much of each as possible. So where in my build can I get Morello's or Executioner's calling without making myself too squishy to do my job right?

Additionally, what summoner should I replace with ignite? Teleport? I just forfeited my lane. Flash? I just became food to the enemy team.

I understand that Grievous Wounds exists, but for the people who are supposed to take that damage to the face, tanks have very little agency over how much their enemy lifesteals off them.

doiminat0r36001 votes

You can have enough to the point where each item gets less stat efficient. At the most, you want 1 of each + 1 of whoever is fed. then build utility or damage.

You should get rid of Teleport or ask your midlaner to take it. You're not always hopeless without teleport. Look at every duelist top laner there is. Always taking ignite.

If your team doesn't build GW, your team deserves to lose. If they don't have enough common sense, then thats a loss. If you cant build it, get others to.

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

You can have enough to the point where each item gets less stat efficient. At the most, you want 1 of each + 1 of whoever is fed. then build utility or damage.

It takes at least three armor items to effectively tank a carry. Unless said carry is Corki or Vayne. For the former you need MR and the latter... well, nothing can let you effectively tank her.

You should get rid of Teleport or ask your midlaner to take it. You're not always hopeless without teleport. Look at every duelist top laner there is. Always taking ignite.

Really? I'm pretty sure exhaust is the new meta. Additionally, Shen is not your typical top laner. He leaves lane at a moment's notice to help his team. Leaving his lane alone. If Shen doesn't take TP he basically forfeits his turret, and ignite is sub-par because Shen does not have high kill pressure unless your opponent is really, really stupid.

If your team doesn't build GW, your team deserves to lose. If they don't have enough common sense, then thats a loss. If you cant build it, get others to.

So basically, as a tank, I have to say, "hey carry who refuses to communicate and is 2/14, can you buy an item?" That's my counterplay? That's like saying the counterplay to a CC lockdown is to have your support build Mikael's. And even then supports are more willing to put up with that.

We can agree that lifesteal either needs to be toned down or given counterplay.

doiminat0r36001 votes

That is 3 armor items. 1 for each (Armor and MR) and then 1 for whoever is the most fed on the enemy (so an extra Armor or MR). You should be taking only 30% damage from the main damage source by then.

The only reason exaust is the new meta is because it counters assassins so well with damage mitigation. If you want, then you should just take other towers. If you teleport bot, then take bot tower. You'll get that much faster than the enemy laner can get top tower. If you can't build GW, then get someone to build it for you. As i've already said. If nobody builds it, you deserve to lose, end of story. If you can't fit one small AD item into your Shen build (which is probably going AD tank) then that's your problem.

You complain about people being in a team game, not playing as a team? That's a good one. You know, I should put you down for best original. Or maybe best bronze (because when you're that low elo, you need to carry yourself. Not let your team that doesn't communicate carry). You can't rely on team mates, especially at low elo. I would have thought that you would have learned that by now, but I guess not.

Lifesteal has counterplay. It's called Grievous wounds and Thornmail. Thornmail was literally made to counter it.

Irelia Bot1 votes

Thornmail should be updated to do this far better then it does.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Actually, this is a great idea. And how to implement it? By adding it to thornmail! The item is already not hot, giving it the ability to reduce lifesteal would make it a good pick against 2 autoers. Right now randuins is kinda just better all around.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Melledoneus

The Boards need to read this article by Riot's Tryndamere.
Gameplay332 comments
350
votes
League of Legends no longer feels like our game anymore.
Gameplay230 comments
289
votes
Riot, for all of the Shen players out there, make this one change for us...
Gameplay124 comments
253
votes
Since resistances have replaced health, can we reduce the armor pen on Yasuo's ult now?
Gameplay218 comments
242
votes
I have now discovered the scandalous secrets of some of the Rioters in Riot Games...
Memes & Games87 comments
235
votes
I'm growing tired of entertaining your whims, Riot.
Gameplay310 comments
222
votes