These planned Mage Itemization changes look really friggin' dope

Malicious Metal·Apr 7, 2016·73 votes·4,838 views

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/79cto3EB-planned-69-mana-x-mp5-x-ap-x-mr-item-pass

Some of them even help good ol' Morde out a lot. Especially the Hextech rocket belt since it gives him a low CD DASH. Sheesh, I can't wait to try these out on the PBE

129 Comments

LankPantsApr 7, 201637 votes

There's no way Hextech Rocket Belt gets into the game in its current form. It would pretty much break Ryze and Annie to ungodly levels.

I also doubt it will help Mord as much as you think at least against his lane. If you see a Mord build this item the logical thing to do would be to also build this item so that when he uses it you can just pop yours and mitigate the effect.

I do like most of the item changes overall though, but that one item scares the shit out of me.

LauchmelderApr 7, 201626 votes

You doubt it will get to live? Like the Xin Zhao godbuff?

A Miss FortuneApr 7, 201611 votes

Imagine a Rocket Belt > Flash > Tibbers

LankPantsApr 7, 201615 votes

It's almost a flash/Tibbers on Tibbers CD. Not something that's a good idea to put into the game IMO.

Rocket>Flash>Tibbers is 1325 units to the centre of the AOE, 1615 to the edge. This is basically giving Annie a stun at the range of Kog's ult. That's not OK.

Tychusfindlay919Apr 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's almost a flash/Tibbers on Tibbers CD. Not something that's a good idea to put into the game IMO.

Rocket>Flash>Tibbers is 1325 units to the centre of the AOE, 1615 to the edge. This is basically giving Annie a stun at the range of Kog's ult. That's not OK.

They should allow this item to pass through and then make tibbers a projectile. It's moronic that annie gets what is essentially an instant malphite ult. fine, give annie mobility, and make her ultimate a projectile with an actual travel time that depends on the range (ulting closer to yourself will seem instant and further away will take longer and give time to react or at least try to hopefully predict)

LankPantsApr 7, 20168 votes

I disagree, they should can the item altogether because it ruins the feel of immobile champs. I don't see why Riot has an obsession with giving every champ a blink or dash.

iainB85Apr 7, 20167 votes

So let's remove spellvamp all together because it was impossible to balance around Vladimir .

Let's never add any mobility to AP items because it's impossible to balance around Annie .

Doesn't this suggest there are fundamental issues with these champions rather than a problem with the items?

Serika ZeroApr 7, 20167 votes

Immobile mages weaknesses = no mobility. That's the issue. They plan to remove one defining aspect of a class. That's like making adcs tanks/bruisers. You know how well that worked in terms of gra.. I mean balance

Lady HammerlockApr 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There's no way Hextech Rocket Belt gets into the game in its current form. It would pretty much break Ryze and Annie to ungodly levels.

I also doubt it will help Mord as much as you think at least against his lane. If you see a Mord build this item the logical thing to do would be to also build this item so that when he uses it you can just pop yours and mitigate the effect.

I do like most of the item changes overall though, but that one item scares the shit out of me.

then the slow item may be good on him?its 60% would maybe help

LankPantsApr 7, 20163 votes

I'd still question it over the dash and a Rylai's.

I do think this item is the best item on Mord by far, I just doubt its ability to grant him a significant advantage since it's easy for the enemy to just pick one up and make Mord's null.

MirkhailApr 7, 20162 votes

Riot said that it's only a test because they fear it will be broken on annie especially. They want this item to give mage outplay potential not simply more range

LankPantsApr 7, 201611 votes

They want this item to give mage outplay potential not simply more range

I hate this philosophy, and it's something that's been super prevalent with Riot over the last few years.

Mages aren't Zed or Lee Sin. They're not meant to be super flashy champs. They're cerebral champions who rely on proper positioning and forethought. I hate that Riot just ignored that fact when they were reworking these items and I hate that they're allowing the mobility creep to get so far out of hand that even our items are being affected now.

I really hope this item gets canned altogether, not only because it's going to break the living fuck out of Annie, but also because it seems to go against the fantasy of what a mage is.

MirkhailApr 7, 20162 votes

mobile creep is already out of hand so they are trying to do something about it, a lot of player suggests an item with a dash but i think that would make mobility creep even worse. I don't think riot will make this item because they had doubts about it even before they presented the idea

charcharmunroApr 7, 20165 votes

Meanwhile Galio.

HelmightApr 7, 201623 votes

I'm not a fan of the mana changes at all. Mages went from having a few mana itemization changes to having one - Morello's - and building flat mana on most mages feels really bad. I'm all for change, but all that happened is mage itemization options got smaller.

And I feel like there are enough headspace issues in the game as-is without introducing "powerful, low CD" actives on the hextech items. People forget to use Zhonya's Hourglass already.

SpoofghoulApr 7, 20164 votes

Actually they do have manaregen available but in unorthodox ways

And now often coupled with some health sustain which is what most mages lacked aswell

So i wouldn't be too worried, there is also the manafont mastery which works really well once you acquire more flat mana.

A Miss FortuneApr 7, 20164 votes

I agree that there's a ton of mana regen available but it's simply in a more unorthodox way. I actually love how they did this, because it makes mana regen more interactive with the game. I don't remember the entire post but I believe an AP item paid you in mana for taking damage, while another restored a large amount of mana over a few seconds after you leveled up.

NineTailedMysticApr 7, 20163 votes

They want mana regen for more "supportive" items, and flat mana for "aggressive items." I feel pretty negative overall about these changes. Slightly worse Zhonya's. No health sustain unless you want a now mediocre item/burn mana which you have to get damaged to gain back. No new Seeker's item to help vs ADs. Just overall unimpressed. Hopefully thing will change during 6.7 and 6.8's life cycle.

VekknaApr 7, 201610 votes

The mage update forgot to actually add items that most mages will actually use. Damage taken? On-hit damage? Dirt-cheap spellshield?

These guys are happy: Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath Diana Gragas Malphite Maokai Nautilus Singed TahmKench Zac Swain

These guys are happy: Ekko Teemo Kayle Kennen Morgana

These guys....not so happy: Karthus Malzahar Syndra Ziggs Zyra Orianna

McKeifusApr 7, 20167 votes

Non-Mages are the only winners so far in the Mage Update.

MetalGearTeemuApr 7, 20163 votes

Riots designed themselves into a corner around all this power/mobility creep like anyone with any sense has warned them about since Lee Sin's release.

They think they're smarter, but they're not. They fell into it anyway.

MhihnjApr 7, 20168 votes

what if LeeSin buys it?

Dash-dash-dash

Psi21Apr 7, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mXbVHnda,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-07T06:22:20.924+0000)

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/79cto3EB-planned-69-mana-x-mp5-x-ap-x-mr-item-pass

Some of them even help good ol' Morde out a lot. Especially the Hextech rocket belt since it gives him a low CD DASH. Sheesh, I can't wait to try these out on the PBE

You do know there was a ton of nerfs to mages. Less quality of health buffs and more nerfs than anything.

The increase in hp and mana was often a strategic move on an about to level burst mage to attack their opponent... Survive get the level and saving hp + mana help. A small hit to burst mages. But the returning mana is much needed you say... remember this could all be fixed if they changed the mana regen on the map (they nerfed it after all). A mana regen increase to the map is the real buff to mages.
The increase to the cooldown on the active on the hourglass should have every mage pissed. This is a clear cut nerf and no amount of baby increase to cooldown reduction makes up for this nerf. Mage survival just went down with this nerf and loss of AP on the item.
The split build fast cooldown creation from Morello is gone (with the change in its build)
AP amounts have been stripped from all items. Slamming burst mages again.
The MR reduction by 5 on the cowl was offset by its hp increase of 50. I know, I saw that as a guise to make the audience think it was nerf.
The HP was increased on the spirit visage and the hp regen for those juggernauts and tanks abusing it with sustain in lane... really a tanky dps buff... why Riot... why.. which leads me to the next concern...
They removed spell vamp........ seriously.... any time of health increasing effect... just gone.
The Abyssal Scepter change ... hurts a lot. Mages already have a hard time reducing MR on a target. Losing that straight 20 MR reduction... hurts. Instead now it reduces more over level. Another nerf to burst mages.... especially early game.

There is more...... but I need to go to work.

The nail was finally put in the coffin. And Mages are dead.

The buff to mages is another nerf.

Vistha KaiApr 7, 20167 votes

Athene's Unholy Grail New Passive: Gain 15% of premitigation damage dealt to champions as Blood charges, up to 100 to 270 (based on level). Healing or shielding another ally consumes Blood Charges to heal that ally.

Well, screw you too, Riot.

Rod of Ages Mana: 400 --> 300 Mana per Stack: 40 --> 10

REALLY screw you.

Spirit Visage MR: 70 >> 55

Jesus Christ and Holy Mary.

SaiannaApr 7, 20166 votes

No spellvamp.

Just fucking great.

And everyone was talking "ooooh new spellvamp gonna be awesome" or stuff like "finally spellvamp rework".

And what? Vlad will be reworked to work without spellvamp and all other mages are shown middle finger. #And ADC? Here, have 50% lifesteal FOR NO FUCKING REASON. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fuck this lazy bullshit.

(FYI I am salty as all hell. If ADC surivives trough mages combo, he'll heal up to 100% with few AA. And mage will simple die. What Rioter does to balance this out? Make Chalice into support item HURR DURR. Fuck this shit. I'm out.)

MirkhailApr 7, 20164 votes

Spellvamp was never balanced, remove it is probably the better option. Most mage have burst so if the adc survived you were probably dead anyway

NineTailedMysticApr 7, 20162 votes

Spellvamp, like Lifesteal is supposed to be for lane sustain.

KingsgraveApr 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

No spellvamp.

Just fucking great.

And everyone was talking "ooooh new spellvamp gonna be awesome" or stuff like "finally spellvamp rework".

And what? Vlad will be reworked to work without spellvamp and all other mages are shown middle finger. #And ADC? Here, have 50% lifesteal FOR NO FUCKING REASON. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fuck this lazy bullshit.

(FYI I am salty as all hell. If ADC surivives trough mages combo, he'll heal up to 100% with few AA. And mage will simple die. What Rioter does to balance this out? Make Chalice into support item HURR DURR. Fuck this shit. I'm out.)

Lifesteal =/= Spellvamp

The only thing they have in common is that they are healing stats. Nothing else is even remotely similar and one is impossible to balance and the other isn't.

AstôlfoApr 7, 20166 votes

Fuck the Rocket Belt. Literally one of the most fucking terrible ideas I have ever seen.

Linna ExcelApr 7, 20165 votes

Well Fizz, Ahri, Katarina, Akali, and Kassadin need more mobility. And explosions. The fact they are getting tankier too is icing on the cake.

Steven McburnApr 7, 20166 votes

Remember when DFG was too hard to balance so they just took it out?

Yeah. Let's add more scaling AP burst items. Mostly because we added a ridiculous amount of defensive shields that mages have to go through, which feels really bad.

Athene's is going to get karma and lulu nerfed at least 3 times so they can't solo lane anymore with new athenes.

I just honestly have no idea what the balance team is doing at all anymore. Do they seriously not have anyone on the staff that's been there long enough to know what didn't work in the past and won't work now?

McKeifusApr 7, 20162 votes

Someone made a good point earlier...balance team and update team are not the same. Update team introduces insane and impractical crap, Balance team nerfs and removes it. Separation of powers.

MetalGearTeemuApr 7, 20165 votes

Two mediocre teams do not equate to one good one.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hk6KuKgVFF4/maxresdefault.jpg

Serika ZeroApr 7, 20166 votes

DO NOT GIVE IMMOBILE MAGES A DASH For fucks sake, stop increasing the mobility creep. Not EVERYTHING has to be mobile to be fun

PDE5 InhibApr 7, 20164 votes

All I see is a lot of reduction in AP.

akroOmaApr 7, 20164 votes

Doesn't matter. Could probably build tank on Mages and still do more damage than with AP items.

AMYS GRAVEApr 7, 20164 votes

Especially the Hextech rocket belt since it gives him a low CD DASH.

mobility creep, the item.

AMYS GRAVEApr 7, 20163 votes

Did anyone notice that Zhonyas nerf? 90 -> 120 second cooldown means late game zed can kill you twice while its on cooldown.

ForeverLaxxApr 8, 20164 votes

This is because Riot vastly overvalues that active effect. Since the cost of the item came down, the AP came down, and CDR was added to it, then of course they "have" to make the active worse to justify the price.

But don't worry. Once we've all gotten used to the terrible new Hourglass, Riot will swoop in 6 months from now and reduce the cooldown on the active to 100 seconds, increase the cost of the item by 250 gold, and pat themselves on the back for a job well-done on "understanding player concerns".

Only Play DariusApr 7, 20162 votes

Goodbye spellvamp.......

OksanaandjoyApr 7, 20162 votes

I like the Athene's move towards making it a support mage item. Supports need more supportcentric items.

Vistha KaiApr 7, 20162 votes

Yeah, because supports had so little items to build.

Every time I played support last season I was strugling to not have like 60% CDR.

KynamiApr 7, 20163 votes

Not with AP numbers that low though... 40 AP is bad. There is a reason that Ardent isn't very popular outside of niche purposes either.

ForeverLaxxApr 7, 20162 votes

EDIT - meant to post this in the actual changes thread, not here. Deleted content, but not the post marker, because stupidity is fun to witness.

EDIT EDIT: Reposting the content, because I forgot that I no longer have a PBE account for some reason. Maybe someone with an account can raise these concerns --

I keep seeing this "no one builds current Athene's" argument, but did you guys seriously forget about Galio ? I know the playerbase has, but if you all have too then it's no wonder he never gets any love these days. Current Athene's is so necessary on him that it's crazy you're changing it at all. With regards to its planned interaction with shields, how does that fair for Galio? Could he actually heal his ally instead of just himself with the item, or is he being forsaken yet again and left to rot next to his best buddy Yorick?

Vistha KaiApr 7, 20165 votes

People are just blinded by cheap Morello, even though it's as much of an mana regen item as Nashor's Tooth was in Season 2.

Athene's the rush item on Orianna and Syndra, for example.

TyvaniApr 7, 20162 votes

If I'm blowing through mana and don't need the grievous wounds passive, I often build Athene's/Grail. Otherwise, I'll definitely confirm I do rush Athene/Grail when I play Syndra (almost no matter what in that case).

ForeverLaxxApr 8, 20162 votes

Right, it's just that thread has Xypherous claiming Athene's is "core" on no one and the vast majority of the time, Morellonomicon was built in its place. Considering many of those comments in that thread by him can be summed up with "I don't know how this impact X champion", it seems that the champions themselves aren't a concern to him with regards to the item update. Which, of course, was the exact opposite of the Marksmen update where (stupidly) nearly all Marksmen were redesigned or incentivized to adopt the new Ranged Carry itemization. This time around, only Vlad seems to be getting the treatment since item Spell Vamp is going away; everyone else gets to just deal with dumb item changes and suffer for months before Riot finally gets around to them.

And unfortunately for Galio, his time will never come.

Stars ShaperApr 7, 20162 votes

When I read about the belt I couldn't stop figuring him going "huehuehue" in lane

PikmintsApr 7, 20162 votes

I feel pretty hyped for it overall, but I do have a handful of questions as to how certain things will work.

Athene's Unholy Grail now has a bonus heal upon healing/shielding, so how would it handle instances where multiple allies are healed/shielded simultaneously (ie Janna ult, Karma R+E, Sona W, Soraka ult, and so on)?

Tear of the Goddess' passive refunds mana consumed, does this mean that the mana spent through the mana shield of Seraph's and the damage boost of Muramana will also be refunded, or will it simply apply to mana spent through spell casts?

Hextech Gunblade shoots something at a target with zero travel time. Would this then be treated as a projectile and thus be able to be blocked by windwall, or is it more like Brand's current E where a target simply becomes afflicted?

Abyssal Scepter's aura no longer works on minions. This change feels just about as arbitrary as Daruis' ult fearing minions. What reasons could prompt a seemingly negligible change?

AstôlfoApr 7, 20162 votes

The Aura thing with Scepter is because it made it really easy to waveclear.