If you think Akali lossing her heal is a good idea.

Irelia Bot··17 votes·2,913 views

Does Darius losing his Q heal sound like a good idea as well?

Does Caitlyn's traps only stunning for .25 seconds sound good?

Do any of these changes being replaced with more damage sound good?

That is what would happen to make said champ balanced again.

Riot does not like leaving champs in a truly abysmal spot if they can at all help it. Especially if said champ is popular to play.

The heal is just going to be replaced with something else. Be it damage, damage reduction, some kind of CC or more mobility.

48 Comments

solopolo39 votes

Very few people actually comment on balance changes besides out of salt. Akali's had sustain since release, that's kinda been her thing. I don't see why they're removing it. All they had to do was tone down the numbers slightly.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Very few people actually comment on balance changes besides out of salt. Akali's had sustain since release, that's kinda been her thing. I don't see why they're removing it. All they had to do was tone down the numbers slightly.

Akali doesnt even heal that much with her innate sustain, people just confuse level up+gunblade healing with "her healing", or complain that she heals to full over 5 minutes of using Q while above 180 energy.

SamaHamra2 votes

A lot of people complained about an akali having sustain, where you been?

GreenKnight5 votes

Darius is not reworked, Caitlyn is not reworked.

Akali being trashed is a good thing.

Irelia Bot11 votes

{quoted}

Darius is not reworked, Caitlyn is not reworked.

Akali being trashed is a good thing.

Darius and Caitlyn are not reworked? You must be new here.

GreenKnight4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T03:39:17.229+0000)

Darius and Caitlyn are not reworked? You must be new here.

My bad, i meant "removed"

Irelia Bot3 votes

{quoted}

My bad, i meant "removed"

Darius literally has the third highest ban rate in plat+.

Plenty of people would be happy if he was nerfed into oblivion. I am not calling for it even though he is annoying to play against and a fairly common champ to be facing.

GreenKnight1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T03:41:33.469+0000)

Darius literally has the third highest ban rate in plat+.

Plenty of people would be happy if he was nerfed into oblivion. I am not calling for it even though he is annoying to play against and a fairly common champ to be facing.

So? He's still Darius, with a tweaked kit, and if he was nerfed, i wouldn't care because i don't play him.

Full relaunches on the other hand are just a load of bullshit, and should be deleted.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

So? He's still Darius, with a tweaked kit, and if he was nerfed, i wouldn't care because i don't play him.

Full relaunches on the other hand are just a load of bullshit, and should be deleted.

You must be excited for the Morg update with that mentality. Will she change much? I don't know.

GreenKnight1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T03:48:31.247+0000)

You must be excited for the Morg update with that mentality. Will she change much? I don't know.

Enough for me to stop pseudo maining her

TwinkiePro4 votes

You cannot compare darius and akali, they are not even remotely the same. Darius is slow as balls and doesn't possess the mobility akali does. The most common complaint about her throughout the seasons is that her heal makes her oppressive. Not only does she do a ton of damage, she heals off of it, making long trades go in her favor.

That's counter to what an assassin should do. They should peck you down until you are in kill range. Darius has it tied to his missing hp and requires him to hit a champion, completely different from akali.

But again, different champs. It would be better to compare her sustain to an assassin that does the same: Talon. He literally has to kill a minion with his W to heal for a far more paltry amount. His damage is subpar to akali. All he brings to the table is parkour but akali has him beat in every single instance. She's overloaded. Her Q heal is a crutch for her early game, an early game all assassins suffer through. She builds gunblade anyways so her Q heal becomes overbearing.

She's not busted, just frustrating.

SamaHamra2 votes

She doesn't need healing, a good akali can dodge a crazy ton because of her w too, so the healing just feels like insult to injury

TwinkiePro2 votes

{quoted}

She doesn't need healing, a good akali can dodge a crazy ton because of her w too, so the healing just feels like insult to injury

Next is sylas hopefully lmao

Irelia Bot4 votes

{quoted}

She doesn't need healing, a good akali can dodge a crazy ton because of her w too, so the healing just feels like insult to injury

Urgot doesn't need a shield a good one can dodge the damage. Quit being so one dimensional.

Am I doing it right?

Moonscourge1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-01-29T07:34:04.995+0000)

Urgot doesn't need a shield a good one can dodge the damage. Quit being so one dimensional.

Am I doing it right?

Sadly the silvers don't like it when you a) apply their rhetoric right back at them or b) use logic

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Urgot lacks the mobility of akali and her shroud so yeah, not really a good comparison.

SamaHamra1 votes

^^^

SamaHamra1 votes

have you seen the hit boxes? can urgot go into a shroud? can urgot dodge and simultaneously have a gap closer with his e?

IP Masquerena2 votes

Akali, tons of damage, chose one.

Akali is the single assassin who can't burst people, while your pal Talon is infamous for the level first blood.

Akali, although classified as an assassin fights like a bruiser. Heck, the only thing making her an assassin is her R2 execute.

SamaHamra1 votes

oh yeah akali doesn't burst.... she fights like a bruiser...

Prestige AkaIi1 votes

oh yeah akali doesn't burst.... she fights like a bruiser...

Are you being sarcastic?

Akali, tons of damage, chose one. Akali is the single assassin who can't burst people, while your pal Talon is infamous for the level first blood. Akali, although classified as an assassin fights like a bruiser. Heck, the only thing making her an assassin is her R2 execute.

Because this is entirely accurate.

SamaHamra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prestige AkaIi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T19:59:13.987+0000)

Are you being sarcastic? Akali is the single assassin who can't burst people, while your pal Talon is infamous for the level first blood. Akali, although classified as an assassin fights like a bruiser. Heck, the only thing making her an assassin is her R2 execute.

Because this is entirely accurate.

I was mocking someone else genius

Prestige AkaIi1 votes

Do you just naturally exude sarcasm? How am I supposed to know who you're mocking when you reply in a comment thread with like 1 other person in it.

SamaHamra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prestige AkaIi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T19:59:13.987+0000)

Are you being sarcastic? Akali is the single assassin who can't burst people, while your pal Talon is infamous for the level first blood. Akali, although classified as an assassin fights like a bruiser. Heck, the only thing making her an assassin is her R2 execute.

Because this is entirely accurate.

actually I dont care, in the long run she could keep getting nerfed harder and harder into the ground and I wouldn't bat an eye, riot made a trash champion and honestly I don't and wont ever care about her. Akali could have a ten percent win rate and I still wouldnt mind another nerf. that's all it is at the end of the day. Akali is a failed design

Prestige AkaIi1 votes

I disagree, i think it's a numbers thing, especially now that the obscurity is removed, once she gets compensation buffs I feel she'll be in the most balanced state since release.

hhaavviikk4 votes

darius Q doesn't heal versus minions, bad comparison

SamaHamra2 votes

Stop using one dimensional bias, Darius is a bruiser, a guy who soaks damage, he needs the healing. Akali is an assassin, an assassin having sustain?

IP Masquerena2 votes

Assassins also kill people in half a second, Akali needs like 6+ seconds unless she's 20-0.

If she can't burst, she needs a way to survive the time she needs to deal her damage.

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

im surprised cause her sustain was always something she had, even pre rework. after the shroud changes i was always fine with her though. was she still that dominant?

Irelia Bot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-29T04:08:16.914+0000)

im surprised cause her sustain was always something she had, even pre rework. after the shroud changes i was always fine with her though. was she still that dominant?

She could be and people hated the idea of her being able to turret die and not be targeted.

The removal of the heal is seriously overkill though and is just going to be compensated in some other way if it goes through.

Ralik0981 votes

Revert please.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

There are no good ideas that will save this iteration short of a mini rework or revert.

Seeing as riot won't commit to a rework, the next best thing is a series of significant nerfs with compensation buffs which in totality equate to a rework.

Netorare1 votes

Assassins are not supposed to have sustain anyway, now that akali got pretty much removed the next one to be removed from midlane should be irelia since 1 conqueror abuser is enough.

Moonscourge3 votes

{quoted}

Assassins are not supposed to have sustain anyway, now that akali got pretty much removed the next one to be removed from midlane should be irelia since 1 conqueror abuser is enough.

Almost every other assassin in the game would like to have a word with you. They all have sustain or ways to properly avoid damage, because they are mostly melee and it would be impossible to lane for them if they didn't.

Nyarlathοtep

Shaco, zed, fizz, kassadin, katarina dont have innate sustain. Talong has but its extremely limited and generaly low.

Khazix, rengar, kayn, evelyn have innate sustain but that is because they are in jungle and they have to somehow keep themselves healthy.

Pyke has sustain because of his inability to gain health outside of his base amount.

Moonscourge1 votes

{quoted}

Shaco, zed, fizz, kassadin, katarina dont have innate sustain. Talong has but its extremely limited and generaly low.

Khazix, rengar, kayn, evelyn have innate sustain but that is because they are in jungle and they have to somehow keep themselves healthy.

Pyke has sustain because of his inability to gain health outside of his base amount.

But Akali, who is melee and has no way of avoiding damage isn't allowed to have it? Shut up. Shaco has a way of avoiding damage entirely PLUS actual stealth. Fizz has his E and can avoid damage entirely. Kassadin can buy Corrupting potion and survive lane thanks to his Q shield. Kata can last hit from range with her Q and has instant blinks to dodge damage. If you try to make a point at least put some effort into it.

You're also implying that lane champs don't need to stay healthy. Lmao.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

But Akali, who is melee and has no way of avoiding damage isn't allowed to have it?

Oh so, shaco, zed, fizz, kassadin arent melee. Oke lads and lasses you've heard it, they are ranged. Are you crazy?

Shaco has a way of avoiding damage entirely PLUS actual stealth

What? So let me get this straight, shaco can avoid damage because he has stealth, but akali cant, despite having superior stealth. Alright, are you from the balance team or something?

Fizz has his E and can avoid damage entirely

Well you see unlike akali and the rest, he literally has no way to farm safely since he is purely melee. Akali on the other hand has her q on 1.5 sec and e, sure higher but she can use it to last hit if she wants. Fizz literally has to walk up to minions.

Kassadin can buy Corrupting potion and survive lane thanks to his Q shield

Akali can buy corruptiong potions too. Kassadin's shield lasts for 1.5 sec. You can only absorb so much in such a small lifespan. Hell its actually a weak shield, with 60+30. Also its a magic shield, so it wont absorb physical damage.

Kata can last hit from range with her Q and has instant blinks to dodge damage

Akali can last hit from range too. Her q has 500 range. Akali can also evade damage by using her SHROUD in addition to her overall mobility.

If you try to make a point at least put some effort into it.

Lmao.

Netorare1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2019-01-29T08:43:40.316+0000)

Almost every other assassin in the game would like to have a word with you. They all have sustain or ways to properly avoid damage, because they are mostly melee and it would be impossible to lane for them if they didn't.

And thats where ur wrong.

Moonscourge2 votes

{quoted}

And thats where ur wrong.

Except that it's a fact and you have absolutely nothing to back your own claim up.

Netorare1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mUufAcqE,comment-id=0007000100010000,timestamp=2019-01-29T09:15:58.459+0000)

Except that it's a fact and you have absolutely nothing to back your own claim up.

Rengar,Kha,Eve,Kayn have sustain because they are junglers. The assassins that actually lane dont have sustain and dont need one because they have their braindead mobilty and burst.

Moody P1 votes

talon and ekko have healing though

Pokemonred2001 votes

Talon has a heal when killing any unit with his Q and Ekko has an ult heal and they're laners.

Nidalee has literally always had a heal, and she was a midlaner up until Season 5.

If we go by primary class still, Master Yi has also always had a heal (which also reduces incoming damage) and he was primarily a toplane champion until Feral Flare was released. Even then, he remained a toplane champion for a good while until Sated Devourer caused him to get balanced around jungling. (and his healing was the only part of his W that hasn't actually changed since those time periods).

As for avoiding damage, we have Ekko's W's shield, Kassadin's Q's magic shield, and Fizz's E's Troll Pole.

With that list (Talon, Nidalee, Ekko, Fizz, Kassadin, & Master Yi), the primary role assassins who have been mainly laners in the past or are currently laners first, and don't have any innate sustain or way to avoid damage are... Katarina, Leblanc, and Zed. That's really not a lot, especially considering that when you add the missing jungle assassins (Shaco and Nocturne), Nocturne does have sustain and a spell shield, which puts the assassins with some kind of sustain or damage mitigation/way to avoid damage altogether at twelve out of sixteen champions, which is 3/4th's of the class.

EDIT: This didn't take Pyke into account when I wrote it, so if we add our 'support assassin' (though it's not his primary role, so ehh), this makes thirteen out of seventeen assassin champions. As Kayn's primary role is Fighter, it would be eleven out of fifteen champions if neither Pyke nor Kayn is included in the list)

One thing that made Akali in particular unique in that regard is that her healing was always among the most readily available and reliable, though, and that's something that I feel like she still deserves to keep.

kingDeDeDarius1 votes

{quoted}

Talon has a heal when killing any unit with his Q and Ekko has an ult heal and they're laners.

Nidalee has literally always had a heal, and she was a midlaner up until Season 5.

If we go by primary class still, Master Yi has also always had a heal (which also reduces incoming damage) and he was primarily a toplane champion until Feral Flare was released. Even then, he remained a toplane champion for a good while until Sated Devourer caused him to get balanced around jungling. (and his healing was the only part of his W that hasn't actually changed since those time periods).

As for avoiding damage, we have Ekko's W's shield, Kassadin's Q's magic shield, and Fizz's E's Troll Pole.

With that list (Talon, Nidalee, Ekko, Fizz, Kassadin, & Master Yi), the primary role assassins who have been mainly laners in the past or are currently laners first, and don't have any innate sustain or way to avoid damage are... Katarina, Leblanc, and Zed. That's really not a lot, especially considering that when you add the missing jungle assassins (Shaco and Nocturne), Nocturne does have sustain and a spell shield, which puts the assassins with some kind of sustain or damage mitigation/way to avoid damage altogether at twelve out of sixteen champions, which is 3/4th's of the class.

One thing that made Akali in particular unique in that regard is that her healing was always among the most readily available and reliable, though, and that's something that I feel like she still deserves to keep.

What if, instead of some of these other changes, and coupled with losing true stealth under tower, Akali was just given more counterplay in shroud by making DOTS "cripple her" in shroud by making her visible more often and reducing her bonus ms and allowing enemies to counter her with items or by taking certain champs? This would allow her to be strong in many ways, but have much more exploitable weaknesses to balance it off. Say you take brand, malz, dar, or fizz to counter akali with their dots. But say you get counterpicked after taking some vulnerable assassin or mage that she counters, you could pick up corrupting pots or buy liandries. Only the first tick or two of the dots would reveal her before she overcomes the cripple and it would be like a 10 sec CD before it can reveal her again. This would give enemies a chance to counterpicked or Counterbuild without completely ruining her. (Aka, if a dot revealed her for the whole duration she would be useless every game).

VolatileAkali1 votes

So we're beginning to remove Akali identity now? Bitch ass people like you only ruin champions that can be fixed with other better solutions.

kingDeDeDarius1 votes

I'll admit that with the other changes they could at least hold back and keep her heal for now. Maybe just like aatrox, reduce her heal against minions, but by 25% or something

Hochelaga1 votes

Removing healing capabilities from a champion that can't naturally heal is questionnable.

For Akali, she's running Hextech gunblade 100% of the time, she still will have sustain but not during early phase. Considering how easy and safe she is in early phase, I think it's a good thing to make Akali hard to play.

As for compensation for removing such power spike, idk, maybe she could have a reduced energy cost for her Q.

Nyarlathοtep

To be fair...

Does Darius losing his Q heal sound like a good idea as well?

Darius role is to be in the heat of the battle, as such he always expected to take dmg. Also said healing scales with his missing hp and procs only when he lands the edge. Akali on the other hand is supposed to be a squishy assassin, being able to avoid being targeted and using her superior damage and mobility to outwit her target. Not press w and whenever she takes damage, press q and heal instantly 200+hp.

Does Caitlyn's traps only stunning for .25 seconds sound good?

Caitlyn is supposed to be THE siege adc. Her traps being a snare for a couple of seconds to solidify said fantasy. Again not really comperable to akali's case. You can argue all you want (and be right ofc) that healing is part of her theme. But lately.... riot seems to advocate removing things that encompass a champ's theme (ornn losing his shield, aatrox might lose his lifestealing theme against minions).

Do any of these changes being replaced with more damage sound good?

Well they could increase her base regen! (extremely tilted by riot wanting to nerf aatrox lifestealing in exchange of regen as you have probably guessed)

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