Look, I have No Problem With Ignite Top

U4fyn2vZzW·May 17, 2015·38 votes·3,444 views

... Except when the opposing laner takes TP and destroys you in lane despite you having more kill potential.

54 Comments

disregardableMay 17, 20157 votes

You gotta suck less then.

aaronconlinMay 17, 20157 votes

Had an enemy Shyvana take summoner 11 summoner 14 top, then built item 3068 ...

Focus TeemoMay 17, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Had an enemy take top, then built ...

They really need to remove or buff item 3068 ... as it stands its just a worse version of Cinderhulk and or Noob bait. You could say "i want an early game item with HP and armor", but in that case item 3143 is still the better choice on just about everyone, excluding Shen due to his low waveclear.

Aych PiiMay 18, 20151 votes

Sunfire aura's way better post 5.9

Focus TeemoMay 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aych Pii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mPA3wuqQ,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-05-18T00:05:38.363+0000)

Sunfire aura's way better post 5.9

The problem is sunfire was already kind of subpar, nerfing Cinderhulk doesn't really change that.

XeroKimoMay 18, 20151 votes

I wouldn't say it doesn't really change much, for what? 2300 gold? Current cinderhulk vs Sunfires

300hp (375 total) vs 450 hp 0 armor vs 45 armor 25% bonus hp vs 0 bonus hp 26.4 max level dmg vs 42 max level dmg

Pretty much I can't really explain well but, against an ad laner and you're a type to rush a sunfires, even with smite I'd say sunfires would be a better choice. If you aren't really aiming to win the lane ( even if you do anyways ) and aiming to be useful for late game, Cinderhulk while in lane would be a better choice

VesarixxMay 18, 20151 votes

Sunfire is still there if you don't take smite, so it has the advantage of freeing up a summoner spell, if anything they could make it into the lane version of cinderhulk and give it the bonus health % boost, or maybe add Tenacity to it.

Ser GarlandMay 18, 20151 votes

Sunfire does more damage to champions though. I find Randuin's has been worse ever since they nerfed it. I almost always take sun fire over Randuins now.

EkkoFrofflesMay 17, 20156 votes

I'm that odd-ball who takes teleport + ignite. I play mostly tanks, and I ward more than the supports in most matches, so I generally can see any ganks coming with more than enough time to get out of there, meaning I'm okay with no flash. It's what's worked best for me, and so I've stuck with it. I'll go teleport + flash mid lane, though, as I'm squishy and more vulnerable to ganks.

DakuteMay 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm that odd-ball who takes teleport + ignite. I play mostly tanks, and I ward more than the supports in most matches, so I generally can see any ganks coming with more than enough time to get out of there, meaning I'm okay with no flash. It's what's worked best for me, and so I've stuck with it. I'll go teleport + flash mid lane, though, as I'm squishy and more vulnerable to ganks.

I have never seen anyone higher rank than bronze that takes ignite/tp (no flash) on top laners. Either flash/ghost is necessary on almost every single champion in league, with the exception of shaco and maybe 1 or 2 others. Explains why you're bronze 5

EkkoFrofflesMay 17, 201512 votes

I'm bronze 5 because until recently I could do nothing besides top and jungle. I have something like a 20% win rate supporting because I didn't find a support I really felt at home with (Naut) until like a month ago, and I've spent the past month or so doing almost nothing but practicing that and every other role. My top laning is the least of my problems, as I'm 52%, I believe, with all my top laners combined. I'm not saying I won't ever change tactics, just that it's nowhere near my biggest limiting factor.

It Hertz When IPMay 17, 20156 votes

Good map awareness can go a long way towards making up for not having flash, and if you are facing a sustain-based champ then ignite makes more sense.

Chaotic ReksMay 18, 20151 votes

*cough Shen

DakuteMay 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm bronze 5 because until recently I could do nothing besides top and jungle. I have something like a 20% win rate supporting because I didn't find a support I really felt at home with (Naut) until like a month ago, and I've spent the past month or so doing almost nothing but practicing that and every other role. My top laning is the least of my problems, as I'm 52%, I believe, with all my top laners combined. I'm not saying I won't ever change tactics, just that it's nowhere near my biggest limiting factor.

Instead of only trying to change you're biggest limiting factor, you should be trying to change every single limiting factor you can find. And that is definitely one of them.

EkkoFrofflesMay 17, 20151 votes

Trying to work on literally everything at once doesn't work very well. That's why I've broken the week into Mid Monday, Top Tuesday and Thursday, Jungle Wednesday, ADC Friday, and Support Saturday and Sunday. This way I'm not spreading myself too thin trying to do everything at once.

And this "limiting factor" can wait for the time being because it's literally last on my priority list. When I win about 1/4th of the time when I'm mid or support, that takes precedence. I'm going to work on everything eventually, but narrowing your focus and taking things one thing at a time is the best way of doing it.

Nucleophilic atkMay 17, 20152 votes

Well, no offense but that is stupid. Why would you go into ranked not being able to support? It is probably the only role that you will be forced to play (basically any time you're last pick), so wouldn't it just make sense to learn the role before playing ranked? I'm tired of losing ranked games because people like you don't get the 1 single lane that they play, and cost us the game by feeding and having no clue what to do.

EkkoFrofflesMay 17, 20153 votes

First of all, I just started playing this game late last year. I didn't even have full rune pages when I started playing ranked. In hindsight, I can see I started way too soon. Mistakes were made. It happens.

Second of all, there's a difference between knowing how to support and becoming legitimately good at supporting. In 23 matches with Sona I have a 30% win rate and a 3.12 KDA (5.2 deaths per match). I even had the occasional match where I was a deciding factor in us winning. But Sona still wasn't a perfect fit for me like Naut is.

For each role, once I found a champ that fit me perfectly, it was like night and day. It was the same with mid and ADC. I tried out numerous mids and ADCs, but never felt comfortable enough with any of them. Then I found Malz, Zed, Graves, Varus, and others and finally I can at least hold my own, if not do a lot more, if stuck playing either.

Third of all, even when I was only really confident top, I managed to do well enough with WW jungle to win 38% with a 2.12 KDA (6.4 deaths per match). So, again, I didn't really feed, and still had some clue what I was doing despite that being a learning-on-the-job experience. Then I started jungling Wu (one of my top mains) and more recently I found Amumu (and Sej and Vi) and I'm almost as confident jungling as I am going top.

Lastly, like I said in a comment further down, I'm devoting at least one day of the week to practicing each role now (2 each for top and supp) because I saw those numbers and knew something had to change.

DakuteMay 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First of all, I just started playing this game late last year. I didn't even have full rune pages when I started playing ranked. In hindsight, I can see I started way too soon. Mistakes were made. It happens.

Second of all, there's a difference between knowing how to support and becoming legitimately good at supporting. In 23 matches with Sona I have a 30% win rate and a 3.12 KDA (5.2 deaths per match). I even had the occasional match where I was a deciding factor in us winning. But Sona still wasn't a perfect fit for me like Naut is.

For each role, once I found a champ that fit me perfectly, it was like night and day. It was the same with mid and ADC. I tried out numerous mids and ADCs, but never felt comfortable enough with any of them. Then I found Malz, Zed, Graves, Varus, and others and finally I can at least hold my own, if not do a lot more, if stuck playing either.

Third of all, even when I was only really confident top, I managed to do well enough with WW jungle to win 38% with a 2.12 KDA (6.4 deaths per match). So, again, I didn't really feed, and still had some clue what I was doing despite that being a learning-on-the-job experience. Then I started jungling Wu (one of my top mains) and more recently I found Amumu (and Sej and Vi) and I'm almost as confident jungling as I am going top.

Lastly, like I said in a comment further down, I'm devoting at least one day of the week to practicing each role now (2 each for top and supp) because I saw those numbers and knew something had to change.

Honestly u shouldn't be tryin to learn a little of all 5 roles every week. If u really wanna rank up pick 1 role u really wanna main and learn it as much as possible. Then choose 2 other roles u wanna learn as back ups to ur main role. It's better to be great at a few things instead of okish at everything. Chances are u'll get 1/3 of ur roles in almost every game u play anyways.

EkkoFrofflesMay 18, 20152 votes

My first ranked match with Malz mid I went 21/5/2 and did all I could to carry, but could only do so much with the rest of my team feeding 10, 11, 8, and 10 kills respectively. With him mid, and Naut supp, I'm just as comfortable as I am with anyone jungle or top not named Garen. And I definitely do want to improve at mid because, if top and jungle are taken, it's much easier to carry from mid than support. I mean, if your ADC is a moron, you're rendered useless. Like a TB match I had recently when I'd blow all my CC on our opponents to let them escape and their response was to just stand there and/or read it as a signal to fight. I much prefer solo laning because you're the only one truly responsible if you feed during laning phase.

FirstSergeantBimMay 18, 20152 votes

Honestly, there's terrible advice. This game is complicated enough that you really want to have a good amount of experience at all five roles instead of just focusing on one or two. Getting better at the mid lane will make you a better top laner and vice versa. All of the experience you gain in League is naturally synergistic, so you aren't limiting yourself by learning more about the five different roles. The only limitations you will experience are not becoming proficient enough with a champion.

BluePolarizerMay 17, 20153 votes

I'm a plat and I go ignite tp frequently.

NemeBroMay 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm a plat and I go ignite tp frequently.

What champions do you use that setup with?

BluePolarizerMay 17, 20153 votes

garen, hecarim, jarvan . they need to win lane to be relevant but also need tp to contest objectives since they aren't hypercarries either . they're also have easy escapes with normal spells.

FrikgeekMay 17, 20151 votes

That's great and all, but flash is still better if you want early kill pressure. Sure, you could claim that trading your ignite CD for their flash CD gives you a 90s window where your ignite is up and their flash isn't, but you'll still miss out on kills because the enemy laner flashed away and by the time your ignite is back up they could just call their jungler/mid for protection till their flash is up. All they needs to do is walk in front of your river ward a few times and you can't make a play.

Not to mention that with Jarvan or Malphite(champs with easily flashable CC that they need to hit) they could just flash your knockup and then you're right in their face with your most important spell/combo on CD and no way to escape.

Hecarim can get away with it post-6 but you'd still be better off with smite/TP instead of ignite/TP.

It works in some cases but if the enemy laner flashes early you'd be better off with flash yourself so you can follow his flash and kill him. Remember that flash has great offensive usage as well, it's not only for flashing away from ganks.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20154 votes

if you take flash you lose global mobility which is a way bigger deal than having less 300 sec CD mobility. if you take ignite over TP then you better win HARD otherwise the global mobility of TP will easily outscale ignite.

the point of ignite is not to actually kill the enemy laner (though it is nice). it is to pressure them into recalling when they get low, allowing you to freefarm and take the tower, then TPing with your lead to help other lanes.

if they're calling their jungler or mid for help then your mid and jungle is free to gank bot/take tower. it is a lose-lose situation. EVEN IF you get killed - its OK because you have TP.

FrikgeekMay 18, 20151 votes

You take flash over ignite, obviously. TP is a must for most toplaners and if you're running TP/ignite you simply have to get ahead early. Flash is infinitely more useful in teamfights while ignite is basically useless(unless they have superhealers, then it's ok). Smite/TP is a lot better as red smite is a mini-exhaust that also does ignite levels of true damage on a 75s CD. If their mid roams up just to show that he's there then your mid really doesn't have that much time to go bot, and it's also super obvious if he tries. Hell, all the enemy mid really has to do is disappear from mid and go do wraiths/wolves(the topside camp) and you have to respect that and back off.

AFK PushMay 18, 20151 votes

Wouldn't it be decent on say a Shyvana or Renekton top.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20151 votes

No to Renekton because his dashes are very short ranged. YES to Shyvana.

AFK PushMay 18, 20151 votes

alrighty m8 ima try that on my shyvana to see if it suits me better than flash+teleport

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20151 votes

I play Shyvana flashless all the time. Ignite/TP, Smite/TP, Smite/Exhaust (jungle). Flash is useless on her, her problem is sticking long-term to targets and/or finishing them off, how does Flash help with that when she already has a speed boost and a gapcloser?

AFK PushMay 18, 20151 votes

Good points, I already go tp/ignite on hecarim cause of the same reasons, I just didn't think about that before for her lol Also, what about tp and ignite on MonkeyKing his w is a reliable escape.

BluePolarizerMay 18, 20151 votes

W is a reliable escape only in bronze. Maybe. Also, flash to reposition during ult is extremely important otherwise Lee Sin/Tristana/Xin Zhao/Syndra/Vayne can just kick you out of the battlefield when you ult, and anyone else can just stun and run.

AFK PushMay 18, 20151 votes

Thanks for the tips, this noob needs all the help he can get.

Byakuya KuchikiMay 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I have never seen anyone higher rank than bronze that takes ignite/tp (no flash) on top laners. Either flash/ghost is necessary on almost every single champion in league, with the exception of shaco and maybe 1 or 2 others. Explains why you're bronze 5

did you even read what he said? I watch diamond streamers and see their top laners take it. its not bad except when you dont know how to deal with not having flash, and its not hard just deep ward enemy jungle

metaworldpeace10May 17, 20152 votes

Taking ignite top is really risky now. You gotta roll lane or you get too far behind and you actually help the other team snowball.

theragingnerdMay 17, 20152 votes

i don't even take it on riven thats how tp heavy i am on top

NarasimhaMay 17, 20152 votes

Screw that, if I'm facing a Mundo, Tryndamere, or the rare Aatrox, I'm taking Ignite. End of story.

EllphiMay 17, 20152 votes

Sometimes it's just a cheese strat

I like to take Ignite on Yasuo even though in a realistically he's going to get shat on in lane so hard that it'd never be useful - but there are rare circumstances ignite does get me a kill and it makes up for all the times it was useless.

NemeBroMay 17, 20151 votes

I only really take ignite top with champions who can snowball hard like badasses, such as Darius. I always take ignite on Pantheon, because his ult makes teleport sort of redundant, and he is perhaps the most feast or famine champ in the game.

If I'm taking someone who might need to recall early (such as Mundo, or Yorick before I build my tear), then I'm taking teleport.

GuiltyGeckoMay 17, 20151 votes

I take ignite top because I don't know how to use TP effectively. I am a support main, that plays jungle as a secondary role. When I am forced top, I take ignite and usually play Cho'Gath so that I can kill my lane opponent. Also, Cho has 2 ways to interrupt a TP, so that's useful as well.

Nucleophilic atkMay 17, 20151 votes

Which is every single time because if you're taking ignite top, you probably suck at the game.

LlaniteMay 18, 20151 votes

I always take summoner 14 summoner 12 or summoner 6 .

EyesOfTheFoxMay 18, 20151 votes

I top all the time as Wukong. I always have TP+Ignite. TP gets me around the map quick for team fights/lane clearing/hard pushing. Ignite has come in handy on more than one occasion in situations where I'm forced to 1v1 or in team battles when someone happens to escape from my ult. I love to use it in lane on squishier opponents when they feel like they can run back toward their tower only to watch them burn to death. With Wukong's W projecting him forward like a mini-flash combined with the range on his E, it's pretty easy for me to run down opponents after they've flashed.

WutsKrakenMay 18, 20151 votes

My sums vs a Riven if I'm the one who got counterpicked:

summoner 3 summoner 12

My sums vs a Riven if I'm the one who counterpicked her:

summoner 14 summoner 12 or summoner 3

Why? Because flash is meh vs a Riven anyway since she has 5 dashes if you count her own flash and if you're pushing with no vision, yeah you'd be dead anyway even if you had flash because she and her jungler will hunt you down

RouterSmiterMay 18, 20151 votes

Isnt the point of ignite to win lane, and win lane hard? Hecarim

Drunk RummateMay 18, 20151 votes

Ignite top is just silly. I get twice as many kills with teleport than I ever could from ignite. Once you get a couple kills with ignite people start playing scared and you can't snowball very easily. But you can TP bot for a double kill and then use that gold to solo kill your laner and suddenly you're super far ahead AND you have a better summoner...

Ser GarlandMay 18, 20151 votes

They just need to nerf TP in my opinion. Remove the cool down refund on teleporting to towers.

Silents429May 18, 20151 votes

... Except when the opposing laner takes TP and destroys you in lane despite you having more kill potential.

Because 1 summoner spell is the only factor when it comes to getting destroyed or not, it has nothing to do with the champions, items, skills, ganks or nothing. No no by all means the guy with teleports wins it must be because I took ignite.

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IcyPepperMay 18, 20151 votes

No no by all means the guy with teleports wins it must be because I took ignite.

No, OP is talking about the guy with teleport wins despite you taking ignite. That's when it's kind of sad. If you take ignite top, try to win lane. If the enemy laner with teleport wins lane hard, he/she has superior roaming potential and can always be there for teamfights compared to you. Ignite isn't going to win a fight at dragon pit if you aren't there. So if you take ignite, try to win lane or at least don't lose it.

Silents429May 18, 20151 votes

It was implied its sad for your top laner to lose, not so much what happens if the enemy top laner with teleport is able to roam as freely.