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You know, after watching the Xayah spotlight, I'm remind of another marksman

SpecterVonBaren··24 votes·5,862 views

A marskman that currently has no identity as a generalist or a specialist whatsoever.

http://orig13.deviantart.net/925b/f/2016/147/b/3/tristana_by_vegacolors-da40hrc.jpg

When is Riot going to look at Tristana again? Let's look at her abilities and compare them to other marksmen.

Ashe Caitlyn Corki Draven Ezreal Graves Jhin Jinx Kalista KogMaw Lucian MissFortune Quinn Sivir Twitch Varus Vayne Xayah

Out of all of these marksmen, is there anything that Tristana can claim at being better at than any other?

Range? Caitlyn, Ezreal, Jinx, Varus, Kog'Maw, and Twitch beat her there and Caitlyn beats her until LEVEL 16 without needing it to take up a passive slot or be on a cooldown with an ability.

Steroids? Draven, Jinx, Kog'Maw, Twitch, Vayne, Ashe, Caitlyn and Xayah beat her on that. Tristana's steroid is also the only one that takes up an ability slot and gives nothing else but attack speed, everyone else has a steroid with additional effects, like Kog'Maw getting an active with an Armor/MR shred or comes passively like Jinx's Q.

Safety? Caitlyn (Again) Ezreal, Lucian, and Vayne can all play just as or more safe than Tristana while also still being able to effect a fight, remember that Tristana literally cannot do anything to anyone without being in auto attack range of them and Tristana's E requires her to stay on a single target for a while to get the max damage from it which is not safe for a marksman with the game having so many champions with multiple gapclosers or ridiculously long ones (Camille being yet another example of Riot refusing to stop piling on the mobility creep). Tristana can make herself safe with her W and ult but if she does then she's then out of range to do anything in return to her enemy without them jumping on her again.

Mobility? Caitlyn (AGAIN) Ezreal, Kalista, Lucian, Quinn, Vayne, and Sivir all have better mobility tools. You may say "But Tristana's dash has 900 range, more than any of them. More range on the dash of a marskman doesn't mean anything when forcing a marksman to use that maximum distance results in them no longer being able to influence a fight, especially when its on a longer cooldown than any of the other dashes.

Keep in mind also the disparity between Tristana's and Caitlyn's. Caitlyn's is intuitive, it makes her go one direction, launches a skillshot that can slow in the opposite direction that can stop a pursuer, deals damage and triggers her passive on whoever she hit giving her an enhanced auto for a chunk of damage. Tristana's requires her, a squishy marksman, to jump ONTO a dangerous enemy in order to proc the damage and slow, ostensibly its meant to encourage her to go all in on someone but she's not Lucian, she doesn't have a lot of upfront burst damage, her E requires time to stack to get the damage off and if that person backs off while others move in then she just lost her big damage source.

Burst? Lucian, CAITLYN, Jhin, Varus, Vayne, Corki, and Graves all have upfront fire and forget burst damage that doesn't require you to hit someone four times to deal it.

Pushing power? Sivir, Xayah, Graves and Jinx do it better and don't need to use an ability that's also their main damage tool for enemy champs and their tool for taking turrets to do it. Tristana also can't control her pushing power thanks to her E passive so she can't reliably freeze a wave, so if the enemy laners decide to just passively farm then the wave will push towards their side and their jungler can come for a gank.

Turret taking? At some point all marksmen take turrets fast but Jinx beats her by a long run at all stages of the game. At every stage of the game Jinx can take a turret faster than Tristana and as I said before, without needing to use her main enemy damaging ability to do it. Freaking ZIGGS was doing a better job than her when people were taking him bot lane.

CC? Ashe, Caitlyn (AGAIN) Jhin, Jinx, Varus, and Quinn have her beat there since Tristana's W requires her to jump ON her enemy to use it leaving her with only her ult as her big CC source but it also pushes enemies out of her range, meaning she can't counter an enemy after using it unlike Varus who can use it as an opportunity to treat them like a sitting duck and shoot them a bunch.

Tankiness? Graves is the only marksman that's really tanky but you'd think that Tristana, who's encouraged to go all in on someone would at least be more durable to make it less of a death wish than it is but she isn't, Miss Fortune has better base defenses than Tristana.

Generalist? Lucian has been the generalist marksman forever, the one that's used (When he's not nerfed into unviability) as the marksman you pick into any matchup, but even still we have again... Caitlyn and to some extent Jinx as good generalist picks as well.

So wtf is Tristana supposed to be picked for? There's nothing she's outstanding at and many of what are supposed to be her best strengths are outclassed by other marksmen who also get other benefits on top of them. She desperately needs a second look at to refine her kit so it has some kind of focus on something that she can do well and be picked for over other marksmen. She should at LEAST not be so outclassed by Caitlyn, buff her passive so she gets more range than Caitlyn before level 16 at least, most games don't even go on that long.

Maybe make it so if she ults someone with her E on them then once that target reaches the max knockback distance then the bomb instantly explodes for max damage, thus giving her some kind of instant burst damage and a way to influence a fight outside of her auto attack range. Maybe remove her E passive and instead make it part of her Q active where it acts a bit like Kayle's E splash damage. Maybe make it so her passive also gives her additional crit chance per level on top of the range? Or maybe have it so her range scales with her crit chance? Maybe give her back her base attack speed so it isn't so trash without her Q up. Do SOMETHING with her.

68 Comments

OtterlyLost7 votes

Tristana's identity seems pretty specific to me. She's a Hyper Carry who has a very massive dash for safety(it is better than Caitlynn's net and Vayne's tumble and while Ezreal's blink is better, he doesn't carry half as hard; also why no comments on Ezreal who is a generalist in an extreme and can fit any comp and has been able to for a long time?) and a fairly decent AS steroid and surprisingly strong burst in the laning phase. Her identity is that she is the safest hyper carry in the game with the longest and best AA range at level 18. No ADC has a longer range than her with their AA's. Ezreal has to use his Q's(which can be dodged) to even half way compare.

It is not her identity that needs work. What needs work is her kit. The problem with Tristana is that she is actually CD reliant as an AA'ing marksmen which is a massive problem. Jinx and Caitlyn are both AA'ing marksmen that lategame don't have to rely on CD's half as much. Jinx gets free AOE fucking rockets with no CD late game(which is honestly bullshit in my opinion but whatever) and Caitlynn gets a stack of 5 traps by late game that she'll never use up; not only that but by late game she doesn't even have to kite backwards or anything. She can just stand there an AA. :/

Tristana's CDs drag her down majorly. All of them have insanely long CDs, from her Q to her Jump and E. Compareably, the lowest CD spell she has is her Ult. Which is honestly ridiculous. She can't reliably build CDR either as it doesn't fit into her build anywhere. She doesn't need ER as it provides her with very little stats outside of the CDR and the AD and the Crit; it would just be taking up an item slot she would use for her second AS Crit item while still not being half as useful as IE is for her. Youmuu's used to be viable on her until they nerfed the active to remove the AS steroid it gave. It made her unduelable early game if she used Q and Youmuu's at the same time. She doesn't abuse black cleaver like other ADs do because most of her ability's damage are actually magic based and, as we discussed, not spammable. She could build Ionian Boots but there are consistently better options for her than that so its a no go.

She needs to be looked at again but I don't want her identity to change. I know her identity and I like it the way it is. The only thing I'd find acceptable for them to remove in a rework as far as her identity is this janky mechanic where they want her to be a siegemaster. Leave her as a super safe hyper carry with amazing range and work around that.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

You make a very good point there (can't go in depth because I'm on my phone during break) and I was just thinking that myself. Most ADCs have more consistent power but Tristana is severely gated by windows of strength so that if she doesn't succeed with her first rotation of abilities she's done for that fight. I think you've hit on her main problem far better than I could have.

OtterlyLost2 votes

{quoted}

You make a very good point there (can't go in depth because I'm on my phone during break) and I was just thinking that myself. Most ADCs have more consistent power but Tristana is severely gated by windows of strength so that if she doesn't succeed with her first rotation of abilities she's done for that fight. I think you've hit on her main problem far better than I could have.

She's my best champion and best AD and I've consistently seen the CDs be an issue. I'm glad someone agrees with me that her CDs are ridiculous on an AA'ing AD. If they reworked her, I'd like to see them make her less CD reliant as an AA Hyper Carry or maybe even have her CDs reduced not by levels or points, but by something else entirely. Maybe crit, maybe AS or maybe like in season five. In season five, when she felt the best and strongest, her Q used to lower the CD of her E and Vice Versa, making her entire kit flow so much smoother. :/ I miss that greatly as it helped her out IMMENSELY with her massive CDs. However, at the end of season 5 they took that away and replaced it with the mechanic of her bombs exploding resetting her jump. Which is just flatly not as good. She'd just be in a much healthier spot strength wise if they returned it to the season 5 state of E and Q working together to reduce each other's CDs. I'd even accept a nerf on her E's damage if it meant she could have that back.

Barring that, they could just simply give her some CDR for her crit chance and/or AS.

[{quoted}](name=Lazy cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLmBoFtO,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-04-18T15:31:14.226+0000)

I want to argue that Tristana actually takes towers faster just cause of her kit, also she is the only one with a big self peel on a short-ish cooldown.

She pushes very fast with her E passive, but really I just think she's to damn clunky, her rocket jump feels kinda slow crappy and vulnerable, despite being a Reset type skill and the fact she's using a cannon just feels really awkward between autos, some people get over it but it really bothers me.

Her Rocket Jump is honestly a fairly large problem with her kit. People who say its broken and OP have honestly never played Tristana. Even the barest of breezes interrupt it and if she doesn't get an assist or kill after using it, she's extremely vulnerable; it's a 22 second CD at rank one and the VERY last thing that gets maxed. :/ So 90% of the game, it will be that 22 second CD. And it is extremely infuriating how easily it gets interrupted by anything. Anything at all. It has a very tiny window by which it can cancel or partially negate CC. I've played a lot of Tristana and even I have a hard time figuring out what that window actually is. They could do with cleaning up all blinks and dashes' reactions with CC just to make them easier to understand. But Tristana's in particular could be use some sprucing.

The cannon thing doesn't bother me at all. I kite with her smooth as butter. But I'll whole heartedly agree that at times her Rocket Jump makes her exceptionally vulnerable. Its the best dash in the game because it has a massive range but its crippled by being interrupted by ANYTHING.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

What you say about her Rocket Jump to Lazy Cat goes into why I find her safety to not be that much of an advantage. If she uses it to escape a gank then there's 20 seconds that she can't go back to doing what she was because if the jungler comes back right after then you got nothing. Shorter range but lower cool down dashes are far better because they allow consistent safety so you can fight more often.

OtterlyLost1 votes

{quoted}

What you say about her Rocket Jump to Lazy Cat goes into why I find her safety to not be that much of an advantage. If she uses it to escape a gank then there's 20 seconds that she can't go back to doing what she was because if the jungler comes back right after then you got nothing. Shorter range but lower cool down dashes are far better because they allow consistent safety so you can fight more often.

I suppose though knowing when to jump and when not to jump is always a good way to handle her rocket jump. If you jump too soon, then yeah what you said will happen but if you can kite back enough and hold it for long enough, you can usually at least snag an assist and still survive. I know when a Thresh comes up to try and do his point blank flay into hook, I'll wait to jump until after he's used his CC to make escaping smoother.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

I guess part of the problem is that Riot has been making it so more and more ADC's have a lot of upfront burst damage but Tristana's is reliant on stacking her E and then if she gets the E explosion then, as we've both commented on before, she loses her DPS.

She's not like Kog'Maw or Vayne who have inherent kit steroids that other marksmen can't get, max health magic/true damage, so she has no late game that can't be done by someone else and she doesn't have the early game burst damage to contend with champs like Cait, Draven, or Lucian and because she can't bully the late game ADC's to roll into mid game and she gets bullied by the early game ADC's so she can't get a mid or late game, she never has a moment where she comes online unless she was fighting inferior laners and got fed off of them.

So what I'm getting at is, if you stay in the fight longer you don't deal as much damage as the enemy will in that time.

no to toxic5 votes

Lucian isn`t a generalist marksmen. Of all the marksmen he is the best at not having a father.

Myrmiron2 votes

hehe, classic

Yaśuo Main3 votes

GG

HudnofskiBleh3 votes

This is kind of true. Personally, I want her tower taking potential to be higher since destroying structures seems to be what her splash art suggests she would do.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Isn't her tower taking actually a big strength of hers? I mean, she has an attack speed steroid in her kit on top of the ability to use her bomb on a tower. OP says that Jinx beats her at tower taking at any point of the game but if both go for the same build focusing on crit/as/ad, I kinda doubt that Jinx can destroy a tower as fast in late game as Tristana can.....

Would be nice to see a comparison.

HudnofskiBleh1 votes

I'm not understanding. At the beginning of your post you said that her tower taking is not a big strength of hers, but then at the end you said that you doubt even jinx can take a tower as fast. Am I just misunderstanding something?

I also would like to see some kind of comparison on who is the better tower taker, as Tristama is the only ADC that I like to use.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

My apologise, a typo. I actually meant that it is a strength of Tristanas (at least in theory) and that's why I want to see a comparison.^^ If Jinx and Tristana with equal build are hitting a tower, I actually expect Tristana to destroy it faster.

HudnofskiBleh1 votes

Ok thanks for clearing that up lol.

HeeroTX1 votes

Mathematically, you get this:

  • Jinx has lower base AS at all levels, but (slightly) higher base AD at all levels
  • Ignoring Jinx +15% AS passive for this exercise
  • (Assuming Jinx maxes Q first (I don't play her at all, just in principle) and Tristana maxes Q second (standard)) Jinx with her Q on has higher AS than Tristana (with Q on) until ~level 10. After that Tristana has higher AS for 7 seconds.
  • For the sake of this, I'm assuming no eq just to keep from debating build choice or variance

(Because turrets scale over time, I'm running math with just the base stats, this also should be fair since no eq) In 7 seconds, Tristana does around 870 dmg to turret, plus approx 220 from bomb In 7 seconds, Jinx does about 625 dmg to turret with minigun

In 14 seconds, Jinx doubles her dmg to 1650 In 14 seconds, Q & E are both still on cooldown and Tristana's dmg is about 1503 (1090 + 413)

ie. for the second 7 seconds, Tristana's output drops by more than half (AS steroid is +110% and bomb is gone entirely). Plus, Tristana still lacks her E for another 7 seconds and her Q for another 9.

OtterlyLost1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not understanding. At the beginning of your post you said that her tower taking is not a big strength of hers, but then at the end you said that you doubt even jinx can take a tower as fast. Am I just misunderstanding something?

I also would like to see some kind of comparison on who is the better tower taker, as Tristama is the only ADC that I like to use.

Tristana is arguably the second best AD for taking towers. Jinx is first. After Tristana, all of the other ADs are fairly equal in tower taking ability. Cait is good at seiging but seiging and tower taking are different things that fall under the same umbrella. Seiging is just the act of taking a tower and incompasses it all. It includes both how fast you take it and how well you can poke and zone the enemy team from your team while you do take it. While she takes longer to take the turret than either Jinx or Tristana, Caitlyn's traps mean she's good at playing the zone and poke game. Tristana and Jinx are just raw tower taking monsters with very little actual seiging mechanics; they can't zone or poke the enemy team. They just rip the turret asunder.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Can you explain why Jinx is better at taking towers? I don't see why. Tristana has an AS steroid and the bomb to take towers, while Jinx just has an AS steroid for it. I don't understand what makes Jinx taking towers faster than her if you look at their kits.

OtterlyLost1 votes

{quoted}

Can you explain why Jinx is better at taking towers? I don't see why. Tristana has an AS steroid and the bomb to take towers, while Jinx just has an AS steroid for it. I don't understand what makes Jinx taking towers faster than her if you look at their kits.

The way Jinx's Q works is that in Rocket form she gets AOE AA's and larger range in exchange for lower AS; Rocket Form + Runaans means she pushes to turrets faster than Tristana can with her E+E Passive, even with Trist's Q. So Jinx pushes the waves flatly faster and then when she gets there, she can swap to the gatling gun form and that reduces her range and takes away the AoE but instead gives her the ability to AA faster the longer she is AAing. So her AS goes up the longer she AA's, slowly ramping up her DPS. Add in the fact that at this point in the game, Jinx's AS has scaled up and base wise is better than Tristana's, she can take turrets like a beast and can use her passive(That gives her Increased MS and AS instantly on Turret and champion kills/assists) to rush down the lane to the next turret quickly. In comparison, Tristana pushes the wave slower unless she uses all of her utilities that would otherwise increase her turret taking abilities. In other words, if she has to choose between pushing fast to get to the turret or taking the turret fast. :/ If she uses her Q and E to push the wave quickly, when she gets to the turret, they're on CD and she won't take the turret half as fast because her base AS is terrible. If she doesn't use her Q and E to push the wave, then there's a chance she won't push fast enough to actually get to the turret and it won't matter. But let's say she made it to the turret and has both up. She now only has 7 seconds to take that turret and she can do it, sure, but she won't be able to just bolt down the lane right after to take the next and the next on because her window of AS and Burst damage is now gone. Jinx can consistently push towers and generally does it faster because of her kit and the steadily ramping up AS. Tristana is, again, CD reliant.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Sure, if Jinx and Tristana are the only one pushing the lane at the same time, Jinx is going to win at taking towers.

But that is not the situation I meant. Let's assume both have someone else in their team who is able to immediately delete the minions to push. So what I mean is just the tower take down power. If Jinx and Tristana both attack the same tower with equal builds and their cds up, Tristana actually should win, right?

For me, Tristana kinda is in the situation of Ziggs. Every mage is able to take towers, but Ziggs is able to do that significantly faster (and ealier) than other mages because of his tower execution on W.

Tristana has a spell which is increasing her early damage against a tower pretty significantly, unlike Jinx, who can just auto attack the tower.

OtterlyLost1 votes

{quoted}

Sure, if Jinx and Tristana are the only one pushing the lane at the same time, Jinx is going to win at taking towers.

But that is not the situation I meant. Let's assume both have someone else in their team who is able to immediately delete the minions to push. So what I mean is just the tower take down power. If Jinx and Tristana both attack the same tower with equal builds and their cds up, Tristana actually should win, right?

For me, Tristana kinda is in the situation of Ziggs. Every mage is able to take towers, but Ziggs is able to do that significantly faster (and ealier) than other mages because of his tower execution on W.

Tristana has a spell which is increasing her early damage against a tower pretty significantly, unlike Jinx, who can just auto attack the tower.

I just used the practice tool to test our hypothesis.

Lvl 18 Tristana; IE, Runaans, PD, BT, Lord Dominik's, and Greaves takes first turret bot lane in roughly 21 seconds. This is without minions and with her Q and E both maxed and no elixer.

Lvl 18 Jinx: Same Build with the same Runes. Took her 20 seconds. Again, with maxed Q and no elixer or minions.

Its a marginal difference but Jinx still took the turret faster with less resources wasted.

So sure, technically early game Tristana might be able to take turrets faster but late game, Jinx does it faster.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Ok that just sucks. Riot clearly should push Tristanas identity as the tower executioner.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

In which case she will still be worse than her Yordle Cousin Ziggs who is #1 bot lane carry at destroying towers hands down.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Doesn't really matter, though. She is a marksman, he is a mage. Different subclasses can fulfill the same niche in this game.

We got roaming mages (Taliyah for example), a roaming assassin with Talon and a roaming marksman with Quinn. Same niche, different subclasses. Same could be done here with Tristana.

HeeroTX1 votes

This is exactly right, you either push wave, or kill turret, but you can't do both as quickly as Jinx. Plus the fact that Jinx's AS steroid can basically run forever whereas Tristana's has a time limit+cooldown means Jinx just burns faster. The one thing Tristana has a edge on is "risky" split pushing because she can self peel much more easily than Jinx, so if you don't know where some of the enemies are you can push with less concern of an ambush/gank. But if say enemies are 5 top and you're all alone bot, then Jinx has definite advantage, or if you're still in lane phase, Jinx left alone with a turret is generally more dangerous.

SkyblazeHydraX33 votes

Riot is aware that, compared to the reworks that followed, Tristana still kind of lacks a clear identity. Hers was more of a visual update than a gameplay update, with only one ability actually getting replaced or heavily altered and the others just getting numbers tweaks. She does need a more clear and individual niche, and Riot is aware of this.

But look at everything else on their plate.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

Like tweaking Lucian every single time he goes out of the meta? Lucian will only go for a few months out of the meta due to nerfs before Riot gives him a tweak or buff to put him back in but Tristana has been this way for a looooong time.

SkyblazeHydraX36 votes

Lucian has low range, and came into power largely due to the buffs to Blade of the Ruined King that have left it rather heavily overtuned. Tristana is different. She has: Range Mobility AoE Tower taking Wave clear Burst And self-peel in the form of a knockback on her ultimate that does some pretty decent damage.

Because she has all of this in one kit, Tristana has to be left in a somewhat lackluster state. If she's buffed too much or just slightly overtuned, with all the generalized tools at her disposal she becomes centralizing.

Tristana needs more than the number tweaking Lucian gets. Tristana needs another rework of some level, that sharpens her thematic and gameplay strengths into a more individual niche, giving her something she does that no other ADC can do quite the same way. What that is, only Riot will know.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

This... is a fair assessment. I however disagree that there aren't number tweaks that can be made. Just buffing her passive by one point per level would make it so she at least out ranges Caitlyn before level 16 or making it so her base attack speed isn't complete crap.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Except her passive also works on her bomb, so increasing passive range also allows her to throw that thing that much farther, which indirectly buffs her AoE, tower-taking, . There's also the fact that Tristana and Caitlyn are both very different in terms of scaling. Caitlyn is primarily an early game Marksman, who needs to take the lead early on in order scale up and stay relevant. Tristana is a hypercarry, a late game Marksman who starts off weak and, through items and scaling, can completely wreck a game if it goes long enough.

Tristana's wide array of capabilities make her difficult to balance, much like Lucian was pre-Marsksman Update.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Except her E damage is tied to her auto attacking her target, which is still in her auto attack range. You're wrong about Caitlyn, before the rework that was true but she's now capable of scaling into the mid and late game.

Tristana is no longer a hyper carry, what damage are you getting out of Tristana that you can't from another marksman? Nothing, she has NOTHING. She has range, and attack speed steroid, and a source of delayed burst damage. She is not Vayne or Kog'Maw who have max health magic/true damage that give them something that scales into late game and can't just be bought from items. And because her attack speed steroid and her aoe burst damage have cooldowns she is outclassed by Jinx who can choose either of those with a Q toggle and keep it up, which is incredibly important since Tristana's attack speed without her Q is garbage.

Tristana only scales into late game as well as any other AA centric ADC, she is not better than any of them. Also, look at what two other people have said further down.

{quoted}

I just used the practice tool to test our hypothesis.

Lvl 18 Tristana; IE, Runaans, PD, BT, Lord Dominik's, and Greaves takes first turret bot lane in roughly 21 seconds. This is without minions and with her Q and E both maxed and no elixer.

Lvl 18 Jinx: Same Build with the same Runes. Took her 20 seconds. Again, with maxed Q and no elixer or minions.

Its a marginal difference but Jinx still took the turret faster with less resources wasted.

So sure, technically early game Tristana might be able to take turrets faster but late game, Jinx does it faster.

{quoted}

Mathematically, you get this:

  • Jinx has lower base AS at all levels, but (slightly) higher base AD at all levels
  • Ignoring Jinx +15% AS passive for this exercise
  • (Assuming Jinx maxes Q first (I don't play her at all, just in principle) and Tristana maxes Q second (standard)) Jinx with her Q on has higher AS than Tristana (with Q on) until ~level 10. After that Tristana has higher AS for 7 seconds.
  • For the sake of this, I'm assuming no eq just to keep from debating build choice or variance

(Because turrets scale over time, I'm running math with just the base stats, this also should be fair since no eq) In 7 seconds, Tristana does around 870 dmg to turret, plus approx 220 from bomb In 7 seconds, Jinx does about 625 dmg to turret with minigun

In 14 seconds, Jinx doubles her dmg to 1650 In 14 seconds, Q & E are both still on cooldown and Tristana's dmg is about 1503 (1090 + 413)

ie. for the second 7 seconds, Tristana's output drops by more than half (AS steroid is +110% and bomb is gone entirely). Plus, Tristana still lacks her E for another 7 seconds and her Q for another 9.

Also, Tristana's AOE tower taking is a detriment in most cases because if the enemy is under the turret then as soon as that bomb goes off you're going to take turret agro so you need to let up and back off once the bomb goes off therefore reducing your DPS.

And Lucian is STILL difficult to balance he's either shit and barely played or viable and takes over bot lane.

HeeroTX2 votes

{quoted}

Tristana needs more than the number tweaking Lucian gets. Tristana needs another rework of some level, that sharpens her thematic and gameplay strengths into a more individual niche, giving her something she does that no other ADC can do quite the same way. What that is, only Riot will know.

Tristana had a perfect niche, but then Riot made Jinx who took most of her niche and then tweaked Tristana away from her niche because "all hail fem-Joker weeb trash champ". It's why I hate Jinx and will jump into a 1v5 just to kill her.

Now, she's hurt by a few number tweaks that hurt a lot (mainly AS reduction and minor range drop) added to the fact that her early game was ALWAYS the bad part of the kit and the current META being "win early and snowball to the end".

Melledoneus1 votes

Yeah, they're too busy nerfing Shen to notice that some champions aren't even worth being played.

FFS.

AlienPrimate2 votes

How bout instead of everyone being a meta slave and only playing what the community deems as strong they just play what they like. Why would anyone play Tristana over any other ADC? Because they like Tristana.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Except she's outclassed by every other ADC because she has nothing she's remarkable at, she's not an early game marksman, she's not a late game hyper carry, and she's not even that good in the mid game. Freaking Kog'Maw has a better early game than her!

I love Tristana but I can only take losing to every other ADC for so long before I have to stop because of getting flamed by everyone on the planet while also being instagibbed because being a behind ADC is miserable.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

there is no way cait is more mobile than tristana there is no way sivir pushes faster than tristana

there is no way an other adc has an AOE KNOCKBACK DISTANCE: 600 / 800 / 1000 that counters camille ult, shen W, and other AOE spells

Revali2 votes

to be honest my one thing about tristana I feel people overlook is that her steroid is what, **Seven seconds? **

That's so long that a basic ability granting a fair amount of as for that time frame is super good, honestly I think it could definitely use a rework, but it isn't exactly outclassed.

OtterlyLost4 votes

{quoted}

to be honest my one thing about tristana I feel people overlook is that her steroid is what, **Seven seconds? **

That's so long that a basic ability granting a fair amount of as for that time frame is super good, honestly I think it could definitely use a rework, but it isn't exactly outclassed.

Its 7 seconds long but its maxed second and until you get a few points in it, it has a fairly lengthy downtime for a basic ability. Even at rank 5, I think the downtime is 9 seconds. At the first rank, its downtime is 13 seconds. Keeping in mind, this is the ability that's maxed second. its also the ability that keeps Tristana from having AS scaling into the game like other ADs. She only shoots as fast as other AD's for seven seconds at a time every 13 to 9 seconds.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

She also pays for it by having very poor base attack speed so once her steroid ends she hits much slower than other ADCs.

YuGiHo2 votes

Shes the cute marksman.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

https://img.memesuper.com/4996e7c3c4c7fc7aa1ab1ff4c169ed7c_things-we-can-do-to-make-iowa-meme-finger-raised_330-414.jpeg

OtterlyLost2 votes

I love Tristana a lot. I really do wish that they'd do something with her. I've noticed that I struggle a lot with her this season where in previous season I didn't feel as though I had half a hard a time carrying. Even when I'm ahead and fed, I feel powerless.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

At some point, you have to admit, a champion who relies AA to do nearly all damage tend to be the same at their core. Tristana is known for her resets, bombs to turrets, and late game range.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Tristana's range is barely better than Caitlyn's and only after level 16 and other marksmen with range steroids outclass that and all of them have that range on top of other strengths. Her bomb on turrets is memorable, but its also superfluous as it doesn't do much early game and by the time it DOES do something almost any other marksman can take a turret just as fast and without using a long cooldown ability that's also their primary damage source. And Jinx takes turrets faster at ALL stages of the game.

She MIGHT be known for her resets if she ever had an opportunity to really use them but games don't typically work in such a way where her W reset is all that useful since the damage requires her to land on top of someone and even if someone on the enemy team is killed, that doesn't mean that the other four are people you can then just go in on by yourself and expect to win against.

DUDE BRO1 votes

Caitlyn steroid eh

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

Her headshot passive is in fact a steroid.

Golden Tager X1 votes

Well you did forget one thing about her steroid, and that is that it is the biggest as steroid in the entire game.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Concerning the Camille quip, how do you expect them to make a Diver without Mobility?

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Make it have a long ass cooldown so she can't also chase you across the map.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

But that's what divers do. Irelia, Vi and Warwick (he just runs at you), can all do what Camille does, with less Conditional requirements, with less travel time.

HeeroTX1 votes

First off, I'm ok with where Trist is right now. She's not super strong, but as a Trist main, that just means I don't need to fight for her the vast majority of the time. That said, I just realized one "small" change Riot could do to give Tristana a good niche AND give her a solid boost:

  • Give her back her "Grievous Wounds" on her E

This would make her the "Anti-healer" adc hypercarry and make her the solid counter pick to Raka and such, while not having much impact on her primary counters (assassins) and such. Also, it'd make it much less annoying when you throw her bomb on someone with 25 HP and watch them run off and hide and heal up the dmg before it goes off. The one obvious downside is that since Riot clearly hates Raka and seems to have no love for the Megling Gunner, they'd probably give Raka a small buff to compensate, then realize that breaks her again and nerf both Raka and Trist back into crap.

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