Reason why we cant just "nerf morgana"

Focusss·Oct 27, 2014·5 votes·2,109 views

people are always asking for morgana nerfs but its not that easy because she is not just a support she is a mid laner, if they nerf her as a support so she wont get played bot lane and she will be an even more useless mid laner. Dont get me wrong i dont like getting binded for 10 minutes either, but its just the design of the champ she needs more of a rework then a nerf.

to some this may seem obvious but im tired of reading about how morgana "need nerfs", without understanding why riot can't just nerf her.

53 Comments

RuGuOct 27, 201410 votes

That may be the worst reason I've ever heard for not nerfing a champion.

Kats PajamasOct 27, 20147 votes

That may be the worst reason I've ever heard for not nerfing a champion.

ironic because this reason is hardly only used for Morgana despite your disbelief. Many champions have this exact issue.

RuGuOct 27, 20141 votes

That may be the worst reason I've ever heard for not nerfing a champion.

ironic because this reason is hardly only used for Morgana despite your disbelief. Many champions have this exact issue.

I'm not saying Riot doesn't do this, I'm saying there are clearly ways in which you can nerf support morgana and still keep the less good mid morgana viable.

DirewolfiezOct 27, 20144 votes

Let's hear 'em then, if it's so obvious.

RuGuOct 28, 20142 votes

Let's hear 'em then, if it's so obvious.

Reduce her hitbox on Q, and make it harder for her to proc the gold generation on spelthief.

Done.

AdderTudeNov 6, 20141 votes

Exactly. I was gonna bring up the problem about the projectile width on Dark Binding, since dodging it is ridiculously hard and the snare lasts way the hell too long. I mean, not even Lux's Light Binding lasts that long in terms of snaring duration. The projectile width problem is especially apparent in Morgana's Ghost Widow skin. Even if it looks like you barely dodge her Q, you'll still somehow be snared.

Angry MonsterApr 24, 20151 votes

congrats you just screwed mid morg.

RuGuOct 27, 20146 votes

Reduce the damn hitbox on Q.

Morg is nerfed, and not able to lock down my adc until the following game and Morg mid is fine.

FocusssOct 27, 20145 votes

"if they nerf her as a support, she will be bad in the mid lane" is a bad reason, you are a moron

RuGuOct 27, 20141 votes

"if they nerf her as a support, she will be bad in the mid lane" is a bad reason, you are a moron

It is a bad reason, because champions have different aspects of their kits that make them better in a certain role than they were intended to be. They just need to nerf support morg, one way would be to make it harder for her to stack Spellthief, she basically gets a free pass at gold generation, where a zyra / lux / any other pokey support has to work much harder.

I Main SwainOct 28, 20141 votes

great reasoning, loved the facts and data you put out there to support your point.

Meep ManOct 27, 20143 votes

I agree, but it isn't what makes her strong middle lane that makes her a good support. Her E is too strong really. Such a huge magic damage shield AND CC Immunity for quite a duration is too strong. You have to win through pure damage to win against a Support Morgana, which can be easily countered with the common escape ADCs these days.

EndlessSorcererOct 27, 20141 votes

Alternatively, you could pick a poke and/or sustain lane.

MarthianOct 28, 20141 votes

Assuming you didn't already lock in your support before they picked.

KzooCrasherOct 28, 20141 votes

But that is part of the game some champions are better than others in specific match ups if you want all champions to be on equal footing against all other champions your making a different argument all together

Wehrmacht BunnyOct 27, 20143 votes

The stun is complete bullshit with that time, then if you put down her AoE skill, you pretty much have an instant kill.

MarthianOct 27, 20142 votes

Unless you are talking about her ult which does have some counterplay, HER Q IS A ROOT!

FocusssOct 27, 20142 votes

if they nerf the size or duration of her bind that would be a direct nerf to mid lane morgana

MarthianOct 28, 20141 votes

And Old Soraka recieved nerfs due to Solo Soraka.

Morgana is seen a lot more as a support than she is a Mid.

RuGuOct 28, 20141 votes

if they nerf the size or duration of her bind that would be a direct nerf to mid lane morgana

This is just a way of saying "I can't land the skillshot unless its the size of a bus"

Lux's binding is half the size and still very easy to hit. Its actually difficult to miss a morg Q

EndlessSorcererOct 27, 20142 votes

She isn't really in a position where she needs nerfs. She has good utility, but she can't really do much against poke or sustain lanes unless they position poorly and allow a bind, get in range of her (delays) ultimate, or she follows up on another CC. She's just strong against CC dependent champions or those who relay on engaging (such as Thresh, Leona). People should try picking Lulu, Soraka, Sona, or Nami into her. Also, Corki is a good ADC to use when you see an enemy Morgana.

I Main SwainOct 28, 20141 votes

the thing is, coupled with a mega-root, shes got a spell shield that will make them un ccable until you pop it with magic damage, and on top of that unless you are spamming her w and e she has no mana problems at all. and lets not forget that her q chunks out the butthole.

48983507DEL1Oct 28, 20141 votes

She isn't really in a position where she needs nerfs. She has good utility, but she can't really do much against poke or sustain lanes unless they position poorly and allow a bind, get in range of her (delays) ultimate, or she follows up on another CC. She's just strong against CC dependent champions or those who relay on engaging (such as Thresh, Leona). People should try picking Lulu, Soraka, Sona, or Nami into her. Also, Corki is a good ADC to use when you see an enemy Morgana.

Yes, but the problem is champions that rely on CC are the main ones in use at the moment, and she counters them too much to be considered fair. Being countered should still allow counterplay and not be an auto-win in champion select. Thresh, Nami, Leona, and Braum are all countered by Morgana to the point where they have to build full damage to actually win against her**, which prevents them from building what they need to fufill their role as a pick-off champ or peel champ. Honestly, if they nerf her damage, preferably her scaling damage rather than her base damage, then she would be balanced, since her Black Shield will be easier to pop through and her Dark Binding won't have a higher AP ratio then almost every mage (most mages have a high of 70%, with higher champs having 80-85% Annie on basic abilities and very deadly champs having 125%+ on their ultimates Syndra , while she has a 90% on a relatively low cooldown, 3 second root, linear skillshot). She should mainly focus on her utility rather than her damage, as she is mainly a support. You could argue that if her damage is lower then she wouldn't be good in other lanes. Honestly, even though Riot usually likes to set a champion to a specific role, she would still be good Mid if her scaling damage was nerfed, since she would still be a utility Mid laner like Lissandra, who's scaling (and honestly base) damage is shit, or maybe even a snowball champ like Karma Karma , who has rediculous base damage but terrible sclaing damage. Either way, a Support, or really any champion, should not have so much utility while having that much damage at all stages of the game, especially since she counters most of the Supports in play right now (including LCS, which Riot seems to pay most attention to anyway considering how hard Elise got hit when she sucked in anything but the pro scene). The best Support to pick against her is Janna Janna , since she has a ton of multi-target CC that is more focused on peeling then picking off or engaging, and she still has her sheilds and heals if she misses her Q.

MarthianOct 27, 20142 votes

Here's my thoughts on some ways to curb her power:

make Q's root duration scale based on distance travel and maybe a slight reduction on max Root duration. EX: Max rank - point blank hit roots for 1 second, max distance hit is 2.5 seconds.
Make ALL DoTs proc Frostfang line of items only once per cast. FF gives easy gold for how little risk you pay for it. This wouldn't be just for Morgana, it's anyone with a DoT effect since there are a few that can and sometimes do abuse this.
Multiple things to do with her E (see further below)
I think her ult is just fine. Maybe reduce the slow a bit, but it has some counterplay.

As for her shield, rework it to do something else

Reduce shield value (probably won't help much)
High Tenacity while shield is up
Make it similar to Sivir's Spell Shield, but on other players, and give some boon for blocking in the nick of time. Regardless of Shield changes or not, it's duration needs reduced period. If you have no or not enough damage to break the shield, 5 seconds of cc immunity is a freakin long time.

Skia AsteriOct 28, 20141 votes

The shield has a stupid long cool down. 23 seconds at first rank, and 15 seconds at max rank.

For comparison, Leona's Q has a 11 second cool down and her E has a 13 second cool down. Even if Leo expends both on the shielded enemy, both will be back up before black shield.

Comparing it to other shields, Janna, Lulu, and Karma have a 10 second cool down at all ranks on their shield and works against physical damage in addition to magic damage.

Also removing the CC immunity makes there be no reason to ever pick Morgana over another champion. It is the only thing that is unique to her. And this is a big thing considering how similar all the mages are to each other right now.

For Morgana's kit to function, the duration of her snare must be long enough to get the stun from her ult. The combinded duration of the snare plus ult stun must be enough to hold someone in the AoE of her W for most if not all of its duration. Her E must allow her to execute this combo with a degree of safety.

MarthianOct 28, 20141 votes

If you are getting caught by Leona a second time without your shield, then someone messed up somehow.

I never said to completely remove the CC immunity, I suggested ways to lessen it's effect because it is extremely powerful. Her shield protecting only against magic is a double-edge sword. Physical and true damage will bypass it sure, but since those aren't damaging the magic shield, then her target still benefits from CC immunity. And if you are bot lane and they don't have a lot of magic damage, it will most likely stay up the whole time.

And if she needs such a long root in order to function, that sounds like her kit needs reworked. You are talking about Mage Morgana, but Morgana has seen a lot more play Bot lane than mid as of late, which she is more problematic in.

Skia AsteriOct 28, 20141 votes

If you are getting caught by Leona a second time without your shield, then someone messed up somehow.

The point is the CC on support basic abilities will be up before Black Shield, and taking advantage of that is how you are suppose to deal with it. Here are some examples of CC with long cool downs: Lulu's Wimsy, Soraka's Equinox, and Taric's Dazzle have 18 second cool downs. has Alister's Pulverize starts at 17 seconds. Thresh hook and Blitz grab start at 20 seconds, as does Viegar's Event Horizon. The only basic ability CC I know of with a longer cool down is Jinx's Flame Chompers with a 24 second cool down.

So CC on a basic ability should be ready to go again before Black Shield. There is the counter play, and it should be enough if the 16 second cool down on Playful/Trickster is considered enough for counter play. Also if Morgana maxes Black Shield she will not be doing much damage (and her snare duration will be short while in lane), and if she does not then it will reach the point where it only takes one ability to pop it and then it will be out for a long time.

RaptameiOct 27, 20142 votes

people are always asking for morgana nerfs but its not that easy because she is not just a support she is a mid laner

No, she's not. Her best role is support, so she is a support.

Otherwise Blitzcrank would have to be buffed into the stratosphere to make him a viable bruiser as originally intended. Diana was meant to be a jungler, Teemo was an adc, etc.

SukishooOct 27, 20141 votes

people are always asking for morgana nerfs but its not that easy because she is not just a support she is a mid laner

No, she's not. Her best role is support, so she is a support.

Otherwise Blitzcrank would have to be buffed into the stratosphere to make him a viable bruiser as originally intended. Diana was meant to be a jungler, Teemo was an adc, etc.

Considering Morg is listed as Mage first and a Support second, she's higher on the mid side than the support.

Blitz is a tank, always has been always will be. Diana is a fighter, she can be played in a variety of roles. Teemo, is just teemo... he's got issues finding a good place.

RaptameiOct 28, 20141 votes

Considering Morg is listed as Mage first and a Support second, she's higher on the mid side than the support.

Riot's champion labels are irrelevant. For the longest time Sivir was listed as a support.

SukishooOct 28, 20141 votes

Riot's champion labels are irrelevant. For the longest time Sivir was listed as a support.

In WHAT world was Sivir listed as a support? lol.

Skia AsteriOct 28, 20141 votes

people are always asking for morgana nerfs but its not that easy because she is not just a support she is a mid laner

No, she's not. Her best role is support, so she is a support.

Otherwise Blitzcrank would have to be buffed into the stratosphere to make him a viable bruiser as originally intended. Diana was meant to be a jungler, Teemo was an adc, etc.

She is good mid lane in the kind of match up she is suppose to be played against. It is just the champions she is good against are not popular mid either at the moment. Some examples are Annie and LeBlanc.

FocusssOct 27, 20141 votes

ok then what about annie, she was not very strong as a mid laner so they started playing her bot lane, she got nerfed even more because she was too strong for a support so now shes a bad mid laner and she is also a bad support.

Skia AsteriOct 27, 20145 votes

ok then what about annie, she was not very strong as a mid laner so they started playing her bot lane, she got nerfed even more because she was too strong for a support so now shes a bad mid laner and she is also a bad support.

They buffed mid Annie by making her do more damage after she as 250 AP.

MarthianOct 27, 20141 votes

Her Ratios buff made Annie AP Bruiser a thing too.

LlaniteOct 28, 20141 votes

Which ruined her early, mid for an slightly-above-average late game. If I want hyper point-and-click carry, I'd play Ryze.

doubleguacOct 27, 20141 votes

Like Skia already said, mid annie got compensation buffs. Also, annie is not bad at all in the mid lane. She has a solid 52.3% win rate, which puts her over the vast majority of champions in the game. Her win rate in diamond solo queue is even crazier: while it fluctuates quite a bit due to her low pick rate, she's gotten as high as 58% on 10/23, across 1000 picks.

I Main SwainOct 28, 20141 votes

lets see. they made it so last hitting with her q will half its cooldown on top of its mana refund. her passive instead of being a 2 second stun scales from 1.5 to 2.5. her ult has a shorter cooldown. a MUCH shorter cooldown. as in, with max cdr the bear is out for 3 seconds shorter than the cooldown. tibbers is also a whole lot beefier.

gg, hardcore nerfs

Darth Pixy MisaOct 27, 20141 votes

Please explain why you want to nerf a root. Skills still work. Ranged AAs still work, Heal still works, Flash still works, Item spells still work. Sounds like a lot of melee mains looking for a advantage instead of learning how to dodge. Her Q is reeally slow too Anyone seeing it +500 range should be able to avoid it. I think Warwick with Karma's shield might be able to out run Morgs Q in a race.

Skia AsteriOct 28, 20141 votes

Flash still works,

Flash does not work. Only mobility ability that can be used after being rooted is J4's EQ.

MarthianOct 28, 20142 votes

Because THREE SECOND ROOT. And if's she's next to you, she will most likely land it.

even early ranks are long enough for the ADC to beat up on you along with Morgana.

It Is I EmotoOct 27, 20141 votes

get a quicksilver slash.. problem solved. many people don't recognize that item, and it counters alot of champions, wich also means zeds ult, zilleans bombs, stuns from like everything.. Maybe it needs also a Mage version of that item, since the only item it builds into is item 3139

MarthianOct 28, 20141 votes

Because it is extremely expensive. You are not going to build it early game where you will need it a lot since it's so expensive, and you'll just fall behind a ton in damage.

And QSS's existance doesn't mean it's ok for champions to do absurdly broken things like Free suppress or 3 second root at point blank.

It Is I EmotoOct 28, 20141 votes

I don't say that you need to build it early game, but after your infinity edge, it's probably the best item to buy if you're against a high cc team, since it's passive will remove all kind of debuffs. It's the best solution about morganas "OP-ness", just people don't buy it and rush to other items instead that just helps doing more dps but no defense. even GA is not that helpful.

DarthSpectrumOct 28, 20141 votes

That didn't stop Riot from nerfing Yasuo out of top lane, or Ryze out of mid.

What makes you think that they will make an exception for Morgana?

MarthianOct 28, 20141 votes

Or Soraka out of solo lanes.

KalastRavenOct 28, 20141 votes

Change it so Black Shield doesn't negate spell effects, only prevents Magic Damage.

Sire HippingtonOct 28, 20141 votes

noot that hard to tweak her. Reduce binding duration to 2sec all ranks, change the couldown to 12/11.5/11/10.5/10 from 11 all ranks. Change W to deal the same damage over 4 sec instead of 5, change ult leashduration from 3 to 2.5sec. Now all her mechanics that requier her to have a 3sec root have been changed to work perfectly well with a lower root duration, and maxing Q still ads to ur utillity by reducing it's cd.

The only remaining problem would be black shield....

georgerbesteuApr 24, 20151 votes

morgana is fkn op. her stun doesnt even need to hit you to stun you. and her stun last for ever, all she does is stun then use her fkn stupid acid floor ability then your dead. fiot fix her