@Riot question about upcoming updates

La Bello·Jan 6, 2016·16 votes·20,142 views

How long does it take to prepare and ship out updates like the marksman update and the juggernaut update?

Does this mean that we will have to wait for a champions corresponding class to get updated before that champion does? (Im not sure how many more months of I can take also I think doesnt want to wait for juggernauts v2.)

These times around instead of trying to "suprise" us will you take a more transparent route so things like the Mordekaiser/Fiora fiasco can be avoided?

How many subclasses are there? immobile mages,diving fighter,Enchanter, Assassin ect.

56 Comments

RiotMeddlerJan 7, 201657 votes

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

BonipherusJan 7, 20169 votes

Why are you getting downvoted?

RetillinJan 7, 20162 votes

I think it mostly had to do with the State of the Season post from earlier. here

A Miss FortuneJan 7, 20163 votes

That post was so annoying, at the end in the Conclusion section it stated that the pre-season changes were in a "good" direction despite overwhelming negative feedback by the community on most things and that Riot is "pushing for communication" despite red posts being extremely rare on the Boards and almost all of them being non-gameplay related.

hopeful4Jan 7, 20162 votes

NA Boards = Community amirite

A Miss FortuneJan 7, 20163 votes

European, North American, Asian boards + Reddit + Twitter, I've seen almost exclusively negative feedback on poorly handled things like vision, champion balance, towers, etc. We have turrets that literally Janna can chunk, assassins are all going to be out of control with the new item that basically is just an AD DFG (Which was removed for a reason), and the changes to vision in the game are silly and dumbed down the game in favor of people who rarely ever bought wards or upgraded them.

Handin Out NapsJan 7, 20162 votes

My one question is how are people even slightly worried about the new assassin item rofl. It's so useless unless you are behind. Like take a second and think about it, Talon and Rengar will still 1 shot their priority targets, Zed will still get qss/Zhonyas'd. Armour counts as double vs the proc, it's honestly not even that good lmao. Preseason is perfectly fine atm. Vision changes are sad but w/e league is all about adapting.

hopeful4Jan 7, 20163 votes

Sure bro. Nobody except this dumb forum complains about assasins and nobody cries about turrets after last patch either. The only complaints are about the vision, which will get adjusted in the new patch

Not even mention the retarded complaints about Lee, that nobody outside of here takes seriously

Also a silver player claims that the game was dumbed down. My fucking sides

RiotMeddlerJan 7, 201629 votes

Not sure. It could be that people don't feel that was a useful post. Or that they're frustrated at other things. Or that they don't feel this was an appropriate thread to respond to. Or that they don't agree with the direction the post outlines. Or something else entirely. Because of that lack of clarity I don't feel the upvote/downvote system's particularly useful for getting feedback overall, individual comments tend to be much more useful in that regard.

La BelloJan 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Not sure. It could be that people don't feel that was a useful post. Or that they're frustrated at other things. Or that they don't feel this was an appropriate thread to respond to. Or that they don't agree with the direction the post outlines. Or something else entirely. Because of that lack of clarity I don't feel the upvote/downvote system's particularly useful for getting feedback overall, individual comments tend to be much more useful in that regard.

Yeah the downvote system can backfire alot of times (see Reddit +unpopular opinions or Reddit+Karma grab threads) personally I always prefered a upvote system with NO downvoting because I think most opinions should have a chance even the unpopular ones. Anyways once again Id like to thank you for responding to some of my questions. you have no idea how annoying it is to have questions like these poke at the back of your mind throughout a day .

RetillinJan 7, 201612 votes

Well may I ask then, why do the posts on the State of the Season not have Red responses then?

Pika310Jan 7, 20166 votes

As Fearless said once, Ritoers tend to avoid threads with too many landmines that they don't see a possibility of spin-doctoring propaganda that'll be met with anything remotely close to a positive response. Take for example this thread that has angry responses from literally more than a thousand unique players and not a single red post:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/riot-official/XeGzlzez-sona-update

Aych PiiJan 7, 20166 votes

When thousands of people have collectively decided they're right about something and you don't have any good news for them, it's generally not a good idea to try to speak rationally with them. But you can't just follow them like sheep, either, or the integrity of the game's design sinks. Best for Rioters to just stay away from threads like that one.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 7, 20162 votes

Not sure why the downvotes. Yeah, Riot balance sucks blahblah Cass blah blah Lee Sin. I agree with all that shiz. But this comment makes sense and answers a question, so have an upvote.

Earl EulrichJan 7, 20167 votes

they don´t like to react to constructive criticism for some reasons...

Solidair3Jan 7, 20166 votes

the downvote system is pretty dumb. Most people just use it to disregard an opinion they don't like instead of its intended use of eliminating off-topic bs that no one wants to see.

I don't know what the solution would be to this, maybe there isn't one, but that's something that's always bothered me about the system we use here

BetweenSkillJan 7, 20162 votes

People are venting their frustrations inappropriately. They'd rather shower downvotes rather than take the time to type something out, and I can hear the hopelessness in your response right here. I feel you, I can only imagine the pressure and pain of being torn apart on here sometimes for no reason is.

The toxicity is down when there's more responses though. Little ones, big ones, funny ones, serious ones, even ones that Ekko the same rhetoric over and over again. It doesn't matter as much as if they are there at all. Something's better than nothing.

This is our avenue to talk things with you guys, the only real avenue that we know there's a chance you'll see what we have to say.

We just want to talk.

Valhala Warior31Jan 7, 20164 votes

im frustrated with Cassiopeia

AL000Jan 7, 20161 votes

oh really...?

do you read downpost at bottom of the page?

LF AnnieJan 7, 20161 votes

idk, but with how many "why dont rioter post more" that i've seen on the forums lately, i would guess #2,3

aperson1Jan 7, 20162 votes

Why use this board then... comments and threads are sorted by score. If you are reading off of here you're implicitly allowing the up/downvote system to influence your reading material, right?

Linna ExcelJan 7, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Not sure. It could be that people don't feel that was a useful post. Or that they're frustrated at other things. Or that they don't feel this was an appropriate thread to respond to. Or that they don't agree with the direction the post outlines. Or something else entirely. Because of that lack of clarity I don't feel the upvote/downvote system's particularly useful for getting feedback overall, individual comments tend to be much more useful in that regard.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the downvote aspect of the system.

Photos of GhostsJan 7, 20161 votes

Or someone downvoted first and it snowballed for no reason.

RalanrJan 7, 20163 votes

I'd be interested in seeing a class devblog. Class identification is a difficulty in discussion on these boards, so an update on how they work would be wonderful.

Solidair3Jan 7, 20162 votes

gimme dat devblog

LeprechaunJinxJan 7, 20165 votes

This isn't really a response to you Meddler as it is a statement of confusion or disbelief to how (at time or writing) in a thread with one upvote on the original post, a total of two replies to the original post, and 5 total votes towards comments, a relatively concise and clear response made by a Rioter to the topic at hand has a score of -3.

I don't know if this is because people feel like it doesn't answer the question, doesn't go into enough detail, or they just don't like the answer provided but I don't like what this means as a trend. If only the information people wants to hear is supported then it will inevitably become an echo chamber without real discussion.

Either way, thank you Meddler for all the work you've done and the communication Riot as a company and yourself have taken part in. Please extend my regards to the rest of the staff as well and here's to a new year!

La BelloJan 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

thanks for info!! Im glad to know that Ryze is still on radar and that more info will be coming up in a few weeks. I await with baited breath to know the full scope of these changes

blfUvZ8YbuJan 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

Immobile mages? Azir? Do you think which class Azir?

La BelloJan 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m7515q7e,comment-id=00010005,timestamp=2016-01-07T02:59:06.905+0000)

Immobile mages? Azir? Do you think which class Azir?

Azir was confirmed to be updated to lower his skill floor.

You can look it up. They want to make it easier to new ppl to play him .

blfUvZ8YbuJan 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicole Watterson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m7515q7e,comment-id=000100050000,timestamp=2016-01-07T03:00:05.567+0000)

Azir was confirmed to be updated to lower his skill floor.

You can look it up. They want to make it easier to new ppl to play him .

I'm afraid.Riot will ruin his kit.He doesn't need rework only a few buffs please.(such as revert old w soldier range 400)

La BelloJan 7, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m7515q7e,comment-id=0001000500000000,timestamp=2016-01-07T03:05:45.750+0000)

I'm afraid.Riot will ruin his kit.He doesn't need rework only a few buffs please.(such as revert old w soldier range 400)

I mean there is also the fact that laning against him is a absolute terror and borderline unfair . Maybe they could add more counterplay to it.

blfUvZ8YbuJan 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicole Watterson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m7515q7e,comment-id=00010005000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-07T03:19:47.923+0000)

I mean there is also the fact that laning against him is a absolute terror and borderline unfair . Maybe they could add more counterplay to it.

Assassins are very powerful.So Azir is very bad in lane.Until Rylai and Nashor he has 0 damage and 0 kill pressure.

DorkunedAurasJan 7, 20161 votes

you've never laned against a good azir.

RudewolfJan 7, 20161 votes

@Meddler What about Ryze's VU? item 3070 Ryze

Earl EulrichJan 7, 20165 votes

(we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time)

so you deceide to do nothing at all to a champ that almost singlehandedly won worlds this year - and instead you randomly kill Swain of all champs. Great job.

apart from that...wahtever you want to ruin this time with a class-rework, please don´t touch Anivia.

cogdacigJan 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

Please keep the outrageous spirit of taric in his new VO....be gentle with him

BrutusnessJan 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

Please try to take a better look at Swain. If he needs work, it should go beyond just nerfing an important ability and leaving him. He needs to be able to deal with his lack of mobility, and nerfing his snare isn't it.

Jeddy017Jan 7, 20161 votes

Since I think this is kind of related,I like to ask about Poppy . Now that the update have been out for a month,any new or improved thoughts on her?Or have Riot not have enough time to developed their thoughts on her since the holiday break?

I know her win-rates aren't anything to write home about,especially after a month.And there some other issues that could be improved like her E (She occasionally stops mid dash rather than traveling with the target meaning she just pushes the target away from her).

PáyJan 7, 20161 votes

Wait, did I read Yorick update might be coming soon™?

The Yetii RiderJan 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

Looking forward to this DevBlog!

So the enchanter class has been doing very well with the changes to Spellthief and the introduction of Thunderlord's Decree. However, they still have the marksman issue of them being quite similar (Sona and Nami are both generalists, Janna and Lulu are both hyper mobile and excellent peelers. Bard and reworked Soraka are good though).

Do you think you might be making room for their update late 2016/early 2017 or do assassins have priority here?

Dark Star ChoJan 7, 20161 votes

The big question, Is cho'gath considered an immobile mage or a tank?

RekJan 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Larger class updates like the Marksmen one take quite a bit of work, so we're probably looking at a couple of those a year. Immobile mages is what we've decided to focus on for the next one, and we'll have some early details on what that update will be focused on to share sometime this month. That'll look at stuff like goals, which characters we're planning to work on, rough timeframe etc, not specific kit changes.

We will also have some individual reworks done separately from those class based ones still. Those will generally either be champions that need a complete overhaul with new kits, visuals, VO etc (Taric and Yorick for example) or champions that have some fundamental gameplay problems we need to address (we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time). We'll also occasionally do other small updates where a bit of extra bandwidth permits some opportunistic work, the Shen gameplay update for example which is getting pretty close.

As far as the number of subclasses go we've got about a dozen we've been using internally. Plan is to tidy the definitions of those up a bit and throw them into a devblog for anyone that's interested.

Please tell me Mordekaiser is included in the immobile mages update? Since the champion was insanely butchered during the Juggernaut update. Can we change his direction here? I can think of at least a dozen changes you could make that benefit gameplay and identity.

FirConeJan 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

(we believe Ryze for example needs more than just balance adjustments to be both healthy and fun at the same time)

My suggestion: Make his snare have a target specific cooldown (like Udyr's bear slap) and force Ryze to actually use his massive movement speed boost for orb walking. This way he has to use some more intensive mechanics to get his damage off while giving the opponent room for escape or even outplay potential. Basically like an ADC, but with spells instead of auto attacks (and magic instead pf physical damage).

His tankiness is another issue of course.

Photos of GhostsJan 7, 20161 votes

Can I ask again about the decision of not making visual only updates anymore? I mean look at Morg and tell me that's normal. She's skeletal, her junctures are at the wrong places, she has cringey animations. How is it not worth the investment of 2-3 weeks of work? She has plenty of cool skin themes that lots of people would buy if she was any more appealing. Geez, are there 4 artists in total at Riot or what, that they have to be constantly dedicated to new champions and reworks?

Meanie40Jan 7, 20162 votes

Wait, so Ryze gets a second rework, but Cassiopea and Sona don't? And I would argue if Ryze is in need of a rework, Soraka is too for the same reasons.

CriogenJan 9, 20161 votes

What about Thunderlord Mastery or Kog'Maw ? In my opinion both things need to be worked on and fast. Thunderlord is way too strong, everybody picks it, and there is no variety. I'am sure you can see that. And Kog'Maw ... well lets face it, it wasn't one of your best reworks. You just made him pretty much one of the less picked marksmans.

PeachsPropertyJan 12, 20161 votes

Meddler any idea if 2016 will be the year that Irelia gets some attention?

Big LincolnJan 6, 20165 votes

yorick is going to be his own overhaul, not class related (expect a release sometime after you have grandchildren)

seems that the subclass reworks take a while; immobile mages are presumably not until mid-season 6, so i'm guessing they're either still picking which champs to change or have just started concept work

ChortleJan 7, 20163 votes

Hopefully some change for Zyra's passive can be tested. If she is on the team's radar.

As of right now her passive is VERY unsatisfying. While it ties in with her lore, it feels very alien when compared to the rest of her kit. Her kit is based around growing plants with her W. Her passive (imo) does not fit well into her design currently.

It can be considered "fine", but I don't believe it really hits the mark in regards to her champion fantasy.

Zyra Zyra Zyra