Boards›Gameplay

Heavily nerf Chalice, Remove DFG, then gut her Early Game & her scaling stun

Lil Soybean··77 votes·7,810 views

Please understand. I dislike Syndra being so oppressive.

But I have to admit.

I honestly feel sorry for Syndra mains. 3 Heavy hits in a row. Syndra

Oh well. Goodluck with Zed. After giving you 3 heavy nerfs, including removing your lane-bully status, which was the reason people played you, removing the item that contributed the most to your single-target burst, and making your sustained damage unreliable due to much less mana regen, at least they're talking about potentially tapping Zed's splitpushing in a future patch.

:^)

...

:^(

I'm glad her stun requires skill to land now.

But it also means less reliable AoE stunning, which makes her scaling-strength much weaker.

That would be fine because of her lane-bully status. Except that they heavily nerfed mana regen AND lowered her early q to about auto-attack strength. So your late game is weaker. Your early game strength - which is your identity as a Syndra - is much, much, MUCH weaker. (Use q for weak poke, or use it for weak waveclear, both of which are much more difficult due to going OoM quickly now.)

And then her mid game 100-0 burst potential is hit by the DFG removal.

That's her early game, mid game, AND late game hit. Hard.

Her winrate has taken a skydive to the bottom 3, I've heard. And DFG hasn't even been removed yet, has it?

Oh, and don't forget that, just to kick mages while they're down, Riot nerfed blue buff AND made the jungle tough enough that junglers need to keep it from mages more often than ever before.

Why is season 5 the anti-mage season, Riot?

151 Comments

Penguin Eclipse29 votes

The Q nerf was unnecessary and uncalled for. If Riot wanted to tone down Syndra they should have waited on Q to see how much of an impact her E changes made. Then seen how much of an impact removing DFG makes. Then maybe look into her Q, but that almost certainly wouldn't have been necessary.

Make a change, test results, proceed from there. This is really elementary but apparently too complex for the interns at Riot.

Hard Penetrator4 votes

It's usual Riot nerf strategy for years. But you are right, it would be better and it would take same amount of time to put her into right place (2 patches). Minor but regular nerfs are only given to valuable champions that are love widely by whole community like Lee and Thresh.

We feel Syndra mains but we had to put with exactly same thing numerous of times, so don't cry, if she will suck too much they will buff her back, in a few months.

Jamaree17 votes

I don't. Oh no, your long ranged AoE stun got nerfed, what a shame >.>

Lil Soybean10 votes

{quoted}

I don't. Oh no, your long ranged AoE stun got nerfed, what a shame >.>

You misunderstand.

I'm glad her stun requires skill to land now.

But it also means less reliable AoE stunning, which makes her scaling-strength much weaker.

That would be fine because of her lane-bully status. Except that they heavily nerfed mana regen AND lowered her early q to about auto-attack strength. So your late game is weaker. Your early game strength - which is your identity as a Syndra - is much, much, MUCH weaker. (Use q for weak poke, or use it for weak waveclear, both of which are much more difficult due to going OoM quickly now.)

And then her mid game 100-0 burst potential is hit by the DFG removal.

That's her early game, mid game, AND late game hit. Hard.

Her winrate has taken a skydive to the bottom 3, I've heard. And DFG hasn't even been removed yet, has it?

Jamaree5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m6wjWI3A,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-01-17T20:21:27.975+0000)

That would be fine because of her lane-bully status. Except that they heavily nerfed mana regen AND lowered her early q to about auto-attack strength.

Having to properly manage your skills instead of just spamming them out for free, my god, what a shame.

So your late game is weaker. Your early game strength - which is your identity as a Syndra - is much, much, MUCH weaker. (Use q for weak poke, or use it for weak waveclear, both of which are much more difficult due to going OoM quickly now.)

And then her mid game 100-0 burst potential is hit by the DFG removal.

I think she is getting buffs to compensate soon actually, when DFG actually gets removed.

Her winrate has taken a skydive to the bottom 3, I've heard. And DFG hasn't even been removed yet, has it?

Also, please check your facts, her current win rate is 48%. http://www.lolking.net/champions/

Edit: I'm a dumbass, I admit it, I also hate Syndra, so excuse me for being bias, fuck her and her long range oppression and burst, I'm allowed to hate champions, so sue me.

Penguin Eclipse11 votes

{quoted}

Having to properly manage your skills instead of just spamming them out for free, my god, what a shame.

I think she is getting buffs to compensate soon actually, when DFG actually gets removed.

Also, please check your facts, her current win rate is 48%. http://www.lolking.net/champions/

There has been no mention of Syndra buffs.

Also, your winrate is an average over time and not just recent games.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/syndra#statistics

RagingStormX2 votes

They stated champs that relies on dfg now will be compensated. They mention veiger and a few other but didn't mentioned syndra.

Lil Soybean4 votes

{quoted}

They stated champs that relies on dfg now will be compensated. They mention veiger and a few other but didn't mentioned syndra.

This doesn't make sense, however. Why nerf her with plans to immediately re-buff her in the next patch?

They never mentioned Syndra getting compensation buffs for the DFG removal.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m6wjWI3A,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-01-17T23:07:59.891+0000)

This doesn't make sense, however. Why nerf her with plans to immediately re-buff her in the next patch?

They never mentioned Syndra getting compensation buffs for the DFG removal.

They actually said they don't intend to,as "she is already strong" or something of the sort.

Raptamei9 votes

{quoted}

They actually said they don't intend to,as "she is already strong" or something of the sort.

Yep, 40% winrate strong.

Lee Sin otoh won't get nerfed. They "need more data".

Meanie407 votes

And if a nerf for Lee Sin ever hits PBE, the Lee Sin mains get so vocal that Riot loses their mind and reverts the nerf.

Meanwhile, #BetterNerfSona.

Lil Soybean8 votes

{quoted}

Having to properly manage your skills instead of just spamming them out for free, my god, what a shame.

I think she is getting buffs to compensate soon actually, when DFG actually gets removed.

Also, please check your facts, her current win rate is 48%. http://www.lolking.net/champions/

So spending thousands of gold to be on-par with energy based champions was unfair? Are you sure you'll ever be happy as long as mages can do anything but auto attack? Because you seem pretty biased.

By the way; you have to look at her winrate statistic now that the nerfs have been implemented. The one you're looking at is still compounded over a long period of time, since before she was hit so hard.

http://i.gyazo.com/a419495f46be39119cbf23b6b03d6e14.png

down to around ~40%.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

the sudden plummet at the end is kinda saddening :(

gubigubi2 votes

Welcome back season 3 syndra!

Alorasence5 votes

{quoted}

I don't. Oh no, your long ranged AoE stun got nerfed, what a shame >.>

She was THE only mage I could play against these oppressive mid lane assassins.

She did not deserve those nerfs. With her early game power gone, nothing stops Akali, Zed, Fizz, Leblanc, and Kassadin from forcing all immobile champions out of the game.

You can complain about assassins and mobility creep all you want until you support this nerf.

Brand, Veigar, Ashe, Miss Fortune, Anivia, Malzahar, Varus and Draven needed buffed.

This just encourages the same crap that has made mobility mandatory in this game.

JJ H0G2 votes

Whoa there, buckeroo. Draven needs no buffs, and neither does Varus. MF and Ashe could probably get a few buffs here and there for QoL, but Dray Dray and Varus need nothing. The only thing I can think of for Draven would be a slight numbers tweak for mana regen, but otherwise he does just fine if you know how to kite and catch axes. Varus has two forms of peel in his kit that are AoE and can change teamfights. I ain't an expert on mages, however, so I'll keep my mouth shut about them.

Alorasence11 votes

[{quoted}](name=JJ H0G,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m6wjWI3A,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-01-17T22:19:43.633+0000)

Whoa there, buckeroo. Draven needs no buffs, and neither does Varus. MF and Ashe could probably get a few buffs here and there for QoL, but Dray Dray and Varus need nothing. The only thing I can think of for Draven would be a slight numbers tweak for mana regen, but otherwise he does just fine if you know how to kite and catch axes. Varus has two forms of peel in his kit that are AoE and can change teamfights. I ain't an expert on mages, however, so I'll keep my mouth shut about them.

The principle of Syndra representing one of the only non-mobile and viable mid lane mages across all elo's is more important than the individual list I mentioned.

She should not have been nerfed. Other competing immobile champions should have been buffed.

Big picture please.

Champions don't give up enough to get mobility in this game.

InsaneSamurai5 votes

Malzahar is friggin awesome.

Yfrappefort16 votes

As a Brand player, all those nerfs to mages really piss me off...especially the mana regen one.

Pyro5 votes

As a fellow Brand player with more than 1000 ranked games on him throughout three seasons: He's actually the only mage in the game with 8 base mana regen at level 1. All the other mages have 6 (Lissandra has 5.9), and four supports (Janna, Soraka, Sona and Nami) have 9.

Which is kinda ironic since the best build on him is item 1056 (x2) into item 3151 into item 3116 anyway. But in the event you went for item 3114 Forbidden Idol in lane, you're getting a tiny bit more out of it that the other mages (which translates to: It sucks a tiny bit less on you).

Until level 9, that is. Because Brand's base mana regen gets equal with others by then.

TheI3igDaddy4 votes

I'm going to be severely disappointed if you've never played 'Disco Inferno' during a game as Brand.

Pyro1 votes

Hell yeah! :)

Usually though i put on a playlist with a fitting OST from some vidya (WoW: BC/Cata/WoD, The Witcher, Gothic).

Or at least I used to, until the new SR music came. Can't get bored of it yet.

TheI3igDaddy3 votes

Yeah the new SR music is quite nice. Was getting a bit tired of the old one.

Audiomancy13 votes

An 8% drop in win rate...in a single day. And that's with DFG still in the game...

R.i.P Syndra. You were the first grill I ever loved. item 3070 Syndra item 3070

Swïft Hïkarï4 votes

Them tears fully stacked

Raptamei10 votes

When DFG is removed, Syndra will officially be the new Urgot.

At this rate Urgot may actually end up being an average pick.

And then get nerfed into perdition, of course.

Rinky Dinky7 votes

She can join Sona in the Urgot pile

blueberrypancake3 votes

Urgot being viable, that day will be amazing.

asktiks9 votes

I mained sindra...

and I can tell you , its brutal now

cant have anything threatening mid AD dominance over zed and yasuo now can we? BECAUSE ZED LANING ISNT OPRESSIVE AT ALL RIGHT!???

the dmg nerf to her Q makes it so crappy for a DODGEABLE skillshot, now there IS no point in using it to harass, the dmg vs mana you spend is just going to hurt you , doesn't matter wich champ you are laning against , most if not all WILL outsustain you now, so you save your mana for last hitting, and until last rank Q doesn't start becoming a reliable dmg nuke again

as for the scatter the weak fix, yes I will agree that it needed some tweaking but now they made the sphere hitboxes so ridiculously small, that ive literally had 2 spheres completely miss 2 champs yet they get pushed back by the spell, the sphere hitboxes are smaller than the actual sphere now , its sooooo hard to land a stun now unless you got like three spheres out then ONE of them will actually hit..

there is no point to playin her now other than you like it when velkoz, veigar can do her job ten times better, and vel doesn't even need items cuz of true dmg passive

meh Idc, I bought velkoz and started learning him when I saw the nerfs on pbe

but ya , shes way overnerfed while zed , lee sin and fizz remain rampant

Abyssphere8 votes

Syndra is hurting as much as any mage really. She's one of the better ones still but that doesn't mean much when mages as a class have been hit terribly hard.

PaperMache76 votes

Please she dropped a whole 8-9% with just this. She's all about her early and mid game, her late game has always been subpar. With the removal of DFG her mid game is gonna be gutted on top of that.

Abyssphere7 votes

I just don't get what Riot has against mages right now. I just want to play mages, why can't I? They rework Cassiopeia into a mess, buff her into brokenness and then gut her again, they gut Syndra, they make the gap between mana and resourceless bigger than ever and now there's a mini-Ahi rework because AP mages who like murdering people aren't allowed, so DFG is dying.

Like, I don't disagree with all of the changes. Mana should be meaningful, DFG is arguably too strong, and Syndra's E has a ridiculous hitbox for such a powerful spell. But mana can't be meaningful as long as energy/resourceless champs exist, or it creates imbalance. Syndra may be one of the very best mages but that doesn't mean she can compete with assassins, and AP itemization being removed for being too strong while nothing is done to combat Zed is just mindboggling.

Everything about season 5 is a nerf to mages, whether it be the group as a whole or individuals who aren't problems getting murdered. And DFG aside the assassins are untouched. How is it not obvious to Riot that mages are hurting?

Diostukos6 votes

http://gyazo.com/a419495f46be39119cbf23b6b03d6e14

Oh dang, she took quite a nose dive.

Jacky Shen6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m6wjWI3A,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-17T20:16:14.148+0000)

Why is season 5 the anti-mage season, Riot?

Because Assasins make "LC$B1GPLAYZ"

PokladnicaZla6 votes

It´s seems like they don´t really know what they are doing..

The mana regen nerfs didn´t hinder mages from spamming,but made them scared to cats abilities in general. Also,does anyone else think they think they ˝balanced man reg.˝ with taking into account that mages get all blues?That´s just wrong.Blue buff should be an independent variable when balacing mana regen on mages. That´s what i hate about being a mage on mid,Blue buff doesnt really feel like a buff,but a ˝stat˝ that all mages should alredy have in their desing.

Junkο5 votes

I understand DFG is bad and all, but why is Botrk still here then? And why so heavily gut mages during assassin mid meta?

No really i main Zed and Yasuo (when they are not banned anyway) and i still see everything wrong with this and feel bad for ap mid mains

Harbard2 votes

Syndra was nothing but an annoying spamming champion. Literally such a high burst with stuns. Not just that, I'm grateful they're targeting mages. Full MR and some mages still manage to say "what's MR?"

Audiomancy7 votes

{quoted}

Syndra was nothing but an annoying spamming champion. Literally such a high burst with stuns. Not just that, I'm grateful they're targeting mages. Full MR and some mages still manage to say "what's MR?"

Meanwhile, Zed.

Lil Soybean4 votes

{quoted}

Syndra was nothing but an annoying spamming champion. Literally such a high burst with stuns. Not just that, I'm grateful they're targeting mages. Full MR and some mages still manage to say "what's MR?"

Is this a joke? Most champions have scaling Armor rather than MR, making Last Whisper more efficient than Void Staff by defaut; then you have Liandry's Torment and Abyssal Scepter, both very uncommon, niche items, only used on a few champs. Realistically you only get Void Staff and Sorcerer's Boots.

Moving on; ADs have Cleaver, Last Whisper, Youmuu's, and BoTRK. And - go figure! - mages greatest competition, whose 3 core items just happen to be Youmuu's, BoTRK, and Last Whisper. AKA you're complaining about mages having a little magic pen, when they're being forced out of viability by one single AD champion who is both 1) a burst assassin, and 2) a tankbuster DPS champion.

How in the world can you be finding the issue with the mages Zed is stomping? Much less because of penetration issues? This is just silly.

Vbunnie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m6wjWI3A,comment-id=00240001,timestamp=2015-01-18T05:42:27.751+0000)

Is this a joke? Most champions have scaling Armor rather than MR, making Last Whisper more efficient than Void Staff by defaut; then you have Liandry's Torment and Abyssal Scepter, both very uncommon, niche items, only used on a few champs. Realistically you only get Void Staff and Sorcerer's Boots.

Moving on; ADs have Cleaver, Last Whisper, Youmuu's, and BoTRK. And - go figure! - mages greatest competition, whose 3 core items just happen to be Youmuu's, BoTRK, and Last Whisper. AKA you're complaining about mages having a little magic pen, when they're being forced out of viability by one single AD champion who is both 1) a burst assassin, and 2) a tankbuster DPS champion.

How in the world can you be finding the issue with the mages Zed is stomping? Much less because of penetration issues? This is just silly.

it is not pen it is the idea that you can easily build about 800 ability power to the mere 300 ad in relatively the same time. Not only that but magic resist is less common then armor and the idea that she didnt just do a lot of damage but also had really nice scaling and really strong cc.... oh yeah to make my point more clear

Ziggs Veigar VelkozViktor BlitzcrankZilean all are asking what is magic resist

Audiomancy4 votes

{quoted}

it is not pen it is the idea that you can easily build about 800 ability power to the mere 300 ad in relatively the same time

Well, yeah. Imagine doing 800 damage twice a second without any mana or cooldowns. That would just be silly!

Oh, wait.

Lil Soybean7 votes

{quoted}

it is not pen it is the idea that you can easily build about 800 ability power to the mere 300 ad in relatively the same time. Not only that but magic resist is less common then armor and the idea that she didnt just do a lot of damage but also had really nice scaling and really strong cc.... oh yeah to make my point more clear

Ziggs Veigar VelkozViktor BlitzcrankZilean all are asking what is magic resist

That's like saying 1,000 AP with 50% scaling is better than 500 AD with 100% scaling.

Auto attacks scale with 100% AD. They also let you shred towers, which mages cannot, and they don't have a mana cost.

junglerboy164 votes

Not to mention Crit and the fact that they are 100% targeted.

Vbunnie3 votes

{quoted}

Syndra was nothing but an annoying spamming champion. Literally such a high burst with stuns. Not just that, I'm grateful they're targeting mages. Full MR and some mages still manage to say "what's MR?"

Blitzcrank Zilean Xerath Veigar Velkoz Viktor what is magic resist?

asktiks4 votes

srsly blitz?

zylean?

wtf are you smoking since when are this two champs blowing people up?

victor? NO ONE plays him

velkoz ? yeah passive consumed for TRUE DMG so ya

junglerboy164 votes

No one plays Viktor because he is prone to random bugs. He is possibly the strongest mage out their right now aside from those issues. He can melt ANYONE with ease, and all it takes is 3 or 4 games to get the hang of his E targeting (seriously, it astonishes me that people think it is hard to aim, with or without smart cast). Viktor's burst from just his base abilities is completely unparalleled.

AP Blitz is a weird off build, but he certainly doesn't care a bit about MR.

Haven't played Zilean, but I've seen what double bomb does when he has full build and it makes you want to cry.

Lusth1 votes

Yes it really must be terrible to play syndra right now knowing you cannot roll your face across the keyboard and get pentas anymore. Rito pls let us spam Q and E without repercursions again pls. lol.

#gut wyndra

Lil Soybean8 votes

{quoted}

Rito pls let us spam Q and E without repercursions again pls.** lol.

#gut wyndra

How dare she compare to energy-based champs. Right? Poor Zed almost had competition.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m6wjWI3A,comment-id=001c0000,timestamp=2015-01-18T01:41:29.518+0000)

How dare she compare to energy-based champs. Right? Poor Zed almost had competition.

"Syndra's strength as a single-target burst-mage makes her a valuable pick considering the field of assassins she's currently facing."

actually quoted from the patch notes.

Lil Soybean9 votes

{quoted}

"Syndra's strength as a single-target burst-mage makes her a valuable pick considering the field of assassins she's currently facing."

actually quoted from the patch notes.

That's the whole point. She was strong against them.

So they nerfed her.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Lil Soybean

"Zed's manaless infinite zoning, poke, harass, and ungankability are making him oppressive midlane."
Gameplay317 comments
386
votes
Am I the only one who is getting way, way, WAY more minion blocking/clipping than before?
Gameplay98 comments
131
votes
Please, Riot, tell us what you're doing with Zilean
Gameplay77 comments
123
votes
What if Garen's Silence was buffed to OVER 2.5seconds, but changed into a cripple?
Gameplay114 comments
114
votes
I honestly don't think Sated Devourer is that broken
Gameplay216 comments
108
votes
It is absolutely miserable laning against Nidalee
Gameplay126 comments
101
votes