"Zed's manaless infinite zoning, poke, harass, and ungankability are making him oppressive midlane."

Lil Soybean·Jan 20, 2015·386 votes·18,439 views

"So let's slightly scratch his attack speed scaling."

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317 Comments

Drunk RummateJan 20, 2015154 votes

"Ahri's losing a lot of strength due to the removal of DFG" ...

"So let's remove the 20% amplified damage on her E and give her 20 damage instead"

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/6205-closing-laptop-gif.gif

Buttigieg 2020Jan 20, 201527 votes

upvoted for Dean winchester.

KeevalroyJan 20, 201580 votes

This is our punishment for not liking the new splash.

Edit: Just found out that the charm amp is going to Fizz. Tell your balance team to stop smoking crack before they make decisions. The fact that they're removing that amp damage from Ahri is ridiculous, but when it's just going to get put on another champion - another assassin - that's fucking outrageous!

And no Riot, those aren't Ahri buffs on the PBE. As much as you want to sell them as buffs, that's a bunch of garbage. Give her amp damage back, what on Earth are you thinking?!

GeneralistJan 20, 201515 votes

Thank almighty someone else agrees. I think she looks stoned. Maybe that is why riot think she need less damage because she can't see straight to aim Ahri

YoellaJan 20, 20159 votes

Worst change in a long time IMO

Knight DevoutJan 21, 201512 votes

"How dare they play an assassin champion that isn't Zed?!"

RoyaiChaosJan 21, 20154 votes

Ahri was supposed to be a mage to begin with.

Knight DevoutJan 22, 201511 votes

And Zed wasn't supposed to be a splitpusher. I don't see any 20% damage reduction against minions on his spell tooltip tho.

Lil SoybeanJan 20, 201583 votes

"Assassins are dominating the meta across all regions and all ELOs, so let's gut mana regeneration across the board."

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/6205-closing-laptop-gif.gif

We couldn't have Anivia becoming considered viable again, now could we?

OperationDEEZ1Jan 20, 20156 votes

Anivia ? Unviable? What? What.....WHAT?

GeneralistJan 20, 201522 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdv2FY2NMfE

youngjake93Jan 20, 201557 votes

Riot believes Zed is in a good place of being able to outplay champions that don't have defensive options 1v1. The attack speed nerf is targeted at his split pushing and tank-busting capabilities which are strengths he doesn't need to maintain his identity. Lowering base attack speed also dramatically affects scaling into late-game and scaling with attack speed items such as BORK and Ghostblade.

Anyway, almost every lane against Zed is a skill match-up because of the way his kit works. Having an escape doesn't mean he can't be ganked. Just because he has a spammable skill-shot, that doesn't mean you can't trade with him. Just because he can dodge abilities with his ult, that doesn't mean you have to blow 3 cooldowns for free while he has it up.

I feel like Riot knows what they are doing. Keep Zed's strengths and identity of assassinating squishies with outplays intact. Get rid of his low counter-play tank-busting, speedy+safe split pushing, and reliable scaling. An assassin doesn't need those to be rewarding.

Drunk RummateJan 20, 201596 votes

{quoted}

Anyway, almost every lane against Zed is a skill match-up because of the way his kit works. Having an escape doesn't mean he can't be ganked. Just because he has a spammable skill-shot, that doesn't mean you can't trade with him. Just because he can dodge abilities with his ult, that doesn't mean you have to blow 3 cooldowns for free while he has it up.

What it boils down to is that every lane against Zed is a skill match-up in his favor, because he gets to continually throw all 3 of his abilities at you on cooldown and the onus is on you to dodge them. There's no winning that lane, there's only not losing it. That's a serious issue if you ask me.

chide da junglerJan 20, 201519 votes

What it boils down to is that every lane against Zed is a skill match-up in his favor, because he gets to continually throw all 3 of his abilities at you on cooldown and the onus is on you to dodge them. There's no winning that lane, there's only not losing it. That's a serious issue if you ask me.

correct

JJI744Jan 20, 201532 votes

{quoted}

What it boils down to is that every lane against Zed is a skill match-up in his favor, because he gets to continually throw all 3 of his abilities at you on cooldown and the onus is on you to dodge them. There's no winning that lane, there's only not losing it. That's a serious issue if you ask me.

Pretty-much this, its not a skill match-up to win the lane. Its a skill match-up to see if you can survive and prevent him from roaming. For the vast majority of mid-laners, there really isn't a situation where you win the lane.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 20, 201524 votes

Anyway, almost every lane against Zed is a skill match-up because of the way his kit works.

It's a skill match-up....until you realize one side has resources to actually worry about, and while he can still be ganked, actually having the chance to escape puts him miles ahead of AP mages like Brand who has none the begin with.

1Lee1Sin1Jan 20, 201511 votes

AS A JUNGLE MAIN, I CAN TELL YOU SO MANY TIMES IVE CAMPED A ZED AND HE CRIED, almost every time i just wait in the damn brush and wait till the idiot wastes his shadow for farming OR poke then i go in on his ass

5G8Nri0B54Jan 20, 20157 votes

till the idiot wastes his shadow for farming

Wait...

Unless he happens to be really pushed or you happen to be like...some stupidly effective champion that can CC forever or something, Zed should have no problem simply running back to the turret if he's only using his shadow to farm.

Especially if you passed a ward.

What Is SmiteJan 20, 201515 votes

Nautilus You called for me?

5G8Nri0B54Jan 20, 20157 votes

Zed : Oh hey Naut, weren't you just executed by the jungle camp a minute ago?

What Is SmiteJan 20, 201525 votes

Nautilus Nope I got buffed little man, can you even lift this 2-ton anchor like me?

RavenKouhaiJan 20, 201540 votes

{quoted}

AS A JUNGLE MAIN, I CAN TELL YOU SO MANY TIMES IVE CAMPED A ZED AND HE CRIED, almost every time i just wait in the damn brush and wait till the idiot wastes his shadow for farming OR poke then i go in on his ass

Counterplay that relies on someone making a mistake isn't counterplay.

Robins TightsJan 20, 201525 votes

He can wave clear and poke without heeding.

But the biggest issue is that he has his living shadow escape. The real messed up thing about it is that he can summon his shadow and proceed to walk in the opposite direction, and he has 5 seconds to determine if he wants to switch places or not. Only another champion with multiple dashes will be able to follow him and having two against one means that only one of your will be able to get to him.

The reason this is okay for Leblanc is because her waveclear is relatively bad and her autos are weak. Zed makes up for that, in addition to being able to buy sustain. He mades Vlad and Mordekaiser look worse.

Subject 5Jan 20, 201527 votes

Are you expecting diversity? In league of legends? In the mid lane? I think rito sent you a postcard, let me show ya!

Hextech KatarinaJan 20, 201518 votes

when Zed can outpush morgana in lane and do so without mana AND while poking her down there is a problem. period.

ComeOnAndSlamJamJan 21, 201518 votes

Upcoming this forever. Zeds biggest problem is his ungankability. Want to fix him for real? His shadows now last 1.5 seconds. No more super huge window for decisions. If you all in someone, you're all in for real.

NecrolipsJan 20, 201515 votes

Honestly I would be perfectly fine with Zed as long as they remove his ability to solo tower dive by six.

TheI3igDaddyJan 20, 201512 votes

Posted in that other huge Zed complaint thread that they'd do the same to him as they'd do to Lucian.

We all know clearly what his problems are, so Riot sees this and nerfs something else because THEY WANT HIM TO BE PLAYED.

youngjake93Jan 20, 201511 votes

I don't think you guys understand how much this could hurt his late game though... His ult+passive amplify the damage he does through autos in his combo, not just abilities and that's why he can instagib anyone. Nerfing his base attack speed and his scaling will mean not only significantly less base damage, but also the % attack speed from BORK and Ghostblade will do a lot less. It doesn't really matter as much if you don't buy armor because he didn't need autos to kill you, but the top laner that is doing well won't be dying anywhere nearly as easily to a fed Zed and you could probably survive his burst with an armguard's stats which is much cheaper than needing the whole Zhonya's for the active.

Whether you think it is enough or not though, Riot is definitely going about it the right way. Incrementally subtracting strengths from his kit that don't make up his identity rather than just gutting Zed because a few people whined should be applauded. I really do think people underrate Riot's balance team. Zed isn't gamebreaking, just annoying so he doesn't need to be treated with a massive gutting on his first retuning patch.

MrBuffingtonJan 20, 201517 votes

I think a lot of the complaints also revolve around mages generally having less mana sustain to deal with resourceless champions like Zed in the early game. Basically, I think most people just want mana regen buffed or resourceless champions paying a similar price

JJI744Jan 20, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I think a lot of the complaints also revolve around mages generally having less mana sustain to deal with resourceless champions like Zed in the early game. Basically, I think most people just want mana regen buffed or resourceless champions paying a similar price

Well, its this combined with Zed almost requiring you to rush an hourglass. So you need to build a mana-regen item, and a defensive item, which kinda means you take until third item before you can actually do damage. Meanwhile Zed rushes a sustain+utility item that also happens to give him great burst damage.

Although, to be fair, these nerfs DO discourage the use of BotRK on Zed. So imma call it now: Tiamat Zed inc., Should provide better damage to squishy targets as well as better sustain and waveclear.

BoulderoxJan 20, 201515 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you guys understand how much this could hurt his late game though... His ult+passive amplify the damage he does through autos in his combo, not just abilities and that's why he can instagib anyone. Nerfing his base attack speed and his scaling will mean not only significantly less base damage, but also the % attack speed from BORK and Ghostblade will do a lot less. It doesn't really matter as much if you don't buy armor because he didn't need autos to kill you, but the top laner that is doing well won't be dying anywhere nearly as easily to a fed Zed and you could probably survive his burst with an armguard's stats which is much cheaper than needing the whole Zhonya's for the active.

Whether you think it is enough or not though, Riot is definitely going about it the right way. Incrementally subtracting strengths from his kit that don't make up his identity rather than just gutting Zed because a few people whined should be applauded. I really do think people underrate Riot's balance team. Zed isn't gamebreaking, just annoying so he doesn't need to be treated with a massive gutting on his first retuning patch.

Bold writing An assassin SHOULDN'T be able to burst a tank in any plane of existance ever. no matter how fed or underfed one or the other is

Kobila2000Jan 21, 201513 votes

I'm sorry, since when is a fed tank top laner supposed to be dealt by a midlane glass-canon assassin? You might be missing some very key and basic elements to this game so I'll spell them out for you: tanks counter assassins. That's what they do. That's why tanks are needed in every team. Your idea that Zed's main problem is now going to be "he can't burst tanks" just shows how ridiculously broken he is. Also, Zed can just buy arpen and he'll still burst your ass.

Get RekkktJan 21, 20156 votes

{quoted} I really do think people underrate Riot's balance team.

did u miss what they just did to syndra? i think you did lol, btw id be willing to bet you play a decent amount of zed

HauntJan 20, 201510 votes

I guess you don't realize that there are most likely going to be more nerfs over time of a few PBE patches.

EDIT: WELP. GUESS NOT. THANKS FOR THE DOWNVOTES THO

CrownsyJan 20, 201535 votes

{quoted}

I guess you don't realize that there are most likely going to be more nerfs over time of a few PBE patches.

Nah, the LCS is about to start. They aren't going to mess with the manaless assassins. To many mid laners in the LCS use them to make #LC$BIGPLAYS

Lets face it, they have made every effort, over the last two seasons, to force kill action and team fights early and often, because it keeps people interested. No one wants to watch a 40 minute farm fest with kills going 4-6. They want to see crazy ganks, a ton of dash kills, ect.

Manaless assassins can make those plays early and often. They aren't going anywhere in the meta.

KonidiasJan 20, 201518 votes

{quoted}

Nah, the LCS is about to start. They aren't going to mess with the manaless assassins. To many mid laners in the LCS use them to make #LC$BIGPLAYS

I think you mean:

₤¢$ ฿ƒ₲ ₽₤₳¥$

BoulderoxJan 20, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I think you mean:

₤¢$ ฿ƒ₲ ₽₤₳¥$

to be fair lcs are behind in patches so any buff or nerf isn't live for them. Thats why talon was so deadly in the lcs, as his silence was still live. Soooooo expect ww jungle still DX

RebonackJan 21, 201514 votes

{quoted}

Nah, the LCS is about to start. They aren't going to mess with the manaless assassins. To many mid laners in the LCS use them to make #LC$BIGPLAYS

** Lets face it, they have made every effort, over the last two seasons, to force kill action and team fights early and often, because it keeps people interested. No one wants to watch a 40 minute farm fest with kills going 4-6. They want to see crazy ganks, a ton of dash kills, ect.**

Manaless assassins can make those plays early and often. They aren't going anywhere in the meta.

Sounds like Riot should dump a ton of money into competitive Dominion then, since it's action packed straight from the gate.

TotalJerkJan 20, 20156 votes

It's weird, people bitch about how the game seems to revolve around glass cannons, and then here we have a champion specifically designed to blow up people who don't buy any defensive items, and people are upset about it.

CrownsyJan 20, 201552 votes

{quoted}

It's weird, people bitch about how the game seems to revolve around glass cannons, and then here we have a champion specifically designed to blow up people who don't buy any defensive items, and people are upset about it.

No, People are "bitching" that when you nerf the hell out of mana regen, remove the top damage item for mana based assassins and yet you leave a class of champions with manaless cooldowns incredibly strong, your options become rather limited beyond "screw it, I'll just buy zed or akali"

Think of it this way. You say he's built to punish people who don't get defensive items. Fine. They just made it so if you are a mage, you are REQUIRED to fix your mana problem early. This means that you must go Moro or (if you hate winning I guess) Athenes. You want them to also fit in a defensive item to fight a Zed.

So, you basically want Zed's opponent to out farm him so hard as to build two items for utility and pretty much ignore any real damage scaling until the third item to even have a shot.

Meanwhile Zed bought BoTRK and said "build complete, time to wreck." at about 10-15 minutes.

Good luck with that.

Sharkb8Jan 21, 201521 votes

THIS!! I've been saying this every where else!!

Manaless or energy champions get to IMMEDIATELY start building damage. Mana champs will now have to worry with mana/mana regen items so much, that by the time you've got mana and regen to be viable, you can't use it because your dead-they were building damage and you have none.

"Oh, just farm under the turret" Yeah, because that's easy-even Korean pros have difficulty with that. You'll get behind further because of the cs you'll miss, and your opponent will now have part of, or a whole extra item over you because you had to try to farm under a tower. Oh, and if it's Zed you're against, then we all know that tower won't protect you at all. If it's not Zed, then you better ward the jungle by the mid lane entrances, because the jungler will take turret aggro while the 'not Zed' kills you with damage items.

Riot nerfed this, knowing it would unbalance the game-then vaguely promises to fix it in another patch? NO!! They should have balanced manaless and energy champs in the same patch-that is the smart and acceptable thing to do, and they didn't do it. It's that simple-they screwed up , and people need to get off their horses and call them on it instead of defending it.

AMYS GRAVEJan 20, 201533 votes

zed blows up people who buy defensive items anyway.

Captain AishiJan 21, 201510 votes

that's what happens when zed's late game rotation (counting 1 autoattack, 1 Q with shadow, 1E and bork active) instantly does around 3750 pre mitigation damage to anyone who doesn't have QSS or zhonyas (items that tanks generally don't get)

Mecha MaIphiteJan 21, 20153 votes

Talon Kassadin Leblanc Khazix Diana