Boards›Gameplay

Of course there's an ELO hell

Occams Raiser··3 votes·1,840 views

I was level 30 for over a year before I played my first ranked game. I watched some videos about playing ranked did some research on counter picking and how to win by picking bullies and strong champs. I had low expectations since I started so late in this games lifespan. Usually this is about the time in a franchise's life where you would see a squeal to reinvigorate the base. But this is a free to play game so those that are bored have to get their kicks some way so they troll. I knew this going in.

I played my prelims over the course of last week. As expected, there was a troll in 4 of my 10 games. I had 4 vics 2 legit losses and 4 waste of time. My final match had dou quo trolls who said they were going duo Jung. One fed 19 kills and the other just jungled the whole time. I was seeded B1

After that, I have seen picks where regardless of what the other team picks, my team picks whoever they feel like playing. My last game "blessed" me with a Nid Jungle in ranked.... really? She went against lee Sin and he picked first. I guess I could ask "why me" but I guess its everyone. The opposing mid and bot was so fed by the time they came for me top Cait had and IE.

I write this only cause its cathartic. I Know others face the same. If you say there is no elo hell tell it to the Morgana supp that starts with Dorans ring, buys G shroud.... sells Shroud to rush Zhonya in a losing lane where she and Graves feed for about 10 kills before 20 minutes

40 Comments

Win1Ocent7 votes

Looking at your performance in those games tells a whole different story...

arcinex2 votes

{quoted}

Looking at your performance in those games tells a whole different story...

+1 this.

Although I agree that there is an elo hell.

tboneski2151 votes

{quoted}

+1 this.

Although I agree that there is an elo hell.

ya definitely needs a + 1 straight up if u wish to leave elo hell what ya need to do is carry the game every game, im still in silver in part of elo hell and part im still triying to master other champs. Sure I can go leblanc and win a majority of my games cause I carry like a mofo but I understand I wont be able to do that every game. #LeBroken 4TW

Occams Raiser1 votes

{quoted}

ya definitely needs a + 1 straight up if u wish to leave elo hell what ya need to do is carry the game every game, im still in silver in part of elo hell and part im still triying to master other champs. Sure I can go leblanc and win a majority of my games cause I carry like a mofo but I understand I wont be able to do that every game. #LeBroken 4TW

I can understand your viewpoint. When you look at my performance like the others that comment on it, are you look at my KDA?

Ninja Nyan2 votes

Sure, the KDA isn't great. But that can be worked on.

And also, items! I lo~ove support, so I love support items!

I'll only take one game cuz I'm busy... http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1751658882/206222450?tab=overview

You never upgraded your GP item (this is a trend in your games)! Personally I preferred the Shield on Leona whe~en I tried her (def gonna buy her next

Ninja Nyan1 votes

but the Talisman can be so strong... Unfortunately, you never go~ot past Ancient Coin :(

And sightstone; that was bought at 35 minutes. This needs to happen within 10. You bought no additional wards beyond Sightstone. Building the Frozen Heart against Vayne and Rek'Sai and Jax was a great idea, though!

As a support, "carrying" is haard, but "impacting" is a huge part of what you need to do. No maatter how 'bad' you may think your ADC is, babysit them and get them items and they'll wreck. Leona is great at ganking oother lanes, too, mhmm! The range and effect of Solar Flare makes me giggle! So roll your lane, waard it, and snowball the Zed.

In terms of gameplay, if I spectate you maybe I ca~an offer tips!

Stay positive! :)

Ninja Nyan1 votes

Oh! You aalso started Shield of Daybreak! That means Janna and Vayne could hit you for free for aall of level 1! By the time level 2 comes around you might not have enough HP to use Zenith :( And you could change your masteries, too! Every tiny advantage you can give yourself a~and your team in the early game will pay massive later on mhmm!

Occams Raiser1 votes

I have burdened myself with the bad habit of late sight stone purchases from playing normals so long. You know in normals most games are lop sided early. In this game, I was particularly frustrated with our Mundo. TO his credit he kept telling me to buy sightstone. To our detriment he said this to me constantly while refusing to leave his top lane opting to cs even during 5 on 4 turret pushes by the opposing team. I must admit that even as a support i had the thought " things are going so good/bad that I don't want to slow my build with sight stone. We aren't even being ganked that much." On the map you can see that my deaths came from attempting plays in mid lane def\off.

Thanks for the feedback.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Thanks. I was trying something different cause the Ashe might like to farm against someone like Vayne and her agility. I and my teammate quickly found that this Ashe didn't kite or hit her Arrow. I fall into the habit of trying to build my other items cause They are more cost effective on Leona. I don't often upgrade shield cause she doesn't scale off HP. I also knew from the start that we had virtually no CC and the other team had gap closers and a bit of CC. Our Zed started out beast but refuse to push after the killing the first tower. He opted to hunt for kills and was eventually out scaled. That was a hard game. I know I will have to break out of the Supp role I love so much cause there are few Supp champs you can carry with.

I'll work on finding effectiveness in upgrading my gold items.

Occams Raiser1 votes

When you look at my performance are you look at my KDA? Or could specify what I might be doing wrong with a "for instance" based on a particular game?

I think most people misunderstand a lot of what people mean by ELO hell. I know from talking with others there are two types of hell. One is based on the ego of thinking you are more deserving of a higher rank than that which you were given. The other is that of those that pose the question "How far must I claw my way through the ranks before I can free myself from those that troll, don't give a shit, and all around add more to the destruction of the game's community rather than making it stronger. I am of the latter.

I don't think I'm that good. When I made B1 after being trolled in 4 of my 10 prelim games, I thought "not bad". I just think about the Silver 4 that could have been without them.

Occams Raiser1 votes

When you look at my performance are you look at my KDA? Or could specify what I might be doing wrong with a "for instance" based on a particular game? Bear in mind regardless of champion, I was supp in all of my prelim games.

Win1Ocent2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2015-03-06T22:52:58.370+0000)

When you look at my performance are you look at my KDA? Or could specify what I might be doing wrong with a "for instance" based on a particular game? Bear in mind regardless of champion, I was supp in all of my prelim games.

Looking at your choice of champion, build choices and KDA, says a lot. Don't be too hard on yourself though, as a somewhat new player to ranked you have a lot to learn, but don't worry, you'll get there!

You can make any support work in bronze or silver, however, some champions are just better than others, Leona is a lot better than Heimerdinger for example. I can tell that most players seem to not play regular support that often in bronze though.

My tip for you would be to do what i did with one of my accounts. I wanted to get to diamond by only supporting, i chose a support (in this case Blitzcrank) figured out a build path that suited my playstyle and figured out a strategy that would make me able to carry games. My strategy for this was, get relic shield, get level 2 before the enemy does (so help to push the lane, you get level 2 after 1 creep wave and 3 melee creeps) when that happens, hook, knock up, ignite, kill. Upgrade relic shield to Targon's Brace, get mobility boots, roam mid whenever i can to make the midlaner fed, get homeguard to roam even faster. Pretty much get my whole team fed, in a lot of games i even deal the most damage and get the most gold.

You don't have to do it the way i did it, but having some sort of strategy and really knowing your champion goes a long way. You die less, your team gets more fed and you win more games.

The level 2 thing though is HUGE, you can win your lane right there if you just make sure you get level 2 first and start fighting right away, giving the ADC a heads up about your strategy helps too, he pretty much need to right click once to get the job done.

Good luck!

Occams Raiser1 votes

I can get behind what you are saying here. I will look at these aspects.

hh the thinker3 votes

other team is about the same skill level as your teammates. if you can't beat them, you would have a harder time higher up.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I think most people misunderstand a lot of what I and many people mean by ELO hell. I know from talking with others there are two types of hell. One is based on the ego of thinking you are more deserving of a higher rank than that which you were given. The other is that of those that pose the question "How far must I claw my way through the ranks before I can free myself from those that troll, don't give a shit, and all around add more to the destruction of the game's community rather than making it stronger. I am of the latter.

hh the thinker1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-03-06T23:12:29.835+0000)

I think most people misunderstand a lot of what I and many people mean by ELO hell. I know from talking with others there are two types of hell. One is based on the ego of thinking you are more deserving of a higher rank than that which you were given. The other is that of those that pose the question "How far must I claw my way through the ranks before I can free myself from those that troll, don't give a shit, and all around add more to the destruction of the game's community rather than making it stronger. I am of the latter.

for the first, people are where they belong, unless they can climb higher.

for the second, this never changes really. I've seen people afk/rage quit in high diamond games before. if you are climbing to get away from all trolls, then you might have to get challenger, and even then, it's not prefect.

Occams Raiser1 votes

damn

4ManVotedAgainst1 votes

I beg to differ. When people in Bronze are on my team they seem to know how to play better than the Silvers I get matched with...

[{quoted}](name=hh the thinker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-06T08:23:25.104+0000)

other team is about the same skill level as your teammates. if you can't beat them, you would have a harder time higher up.

This Season: FF@20 every single fucking game after Placements put me into Silver-IV until I was demoted into Bronze (and in ALL of those instances MY team were the feeders), then come my first match in Bronze, and it was the FIRST game I had ALL SEASON that laster for longer than 20 fucking minutes. Then I get re-promoted back up into Silver then Silver-IV again but these "troll/AFK/feeder" streaks seem to INSIST on ALWAYS being on MY team (but with my Malphite-Record if I just keep playing Malphite Top/Mid/Jungle I should be able to get back up into Promo-Series from Silver-I for Gold where I stopped last Season [I just didn't bother to play the Promo-Games to try promoting into Gold for some reason]).

hh the thinker1 votes

{quoted}

I beg to differ. When people in Bronze are on my team they seem to know how to play better than the Silvers I get matched with...

This Season: FF@20 every single fucking game after Placements put me into Silver-IV until I was demoted into Bronze (and in ALL of those instances MY team were the feeders), then come my first match in Bronze, and it was the FIRST game I had ALL SEASON that laster for longer than 20 fucking minutes. Then I get re-promoted back up into Silver then Silver-IV again but these "troll/AFK/feeder" streaks seem to INSIST on ALWAYS being on MY team (but with my Malphite-Record if I just keep playing Malphite Top/Mid/Jungle I should be able to get back up into Promo-Series from Silver-I for Gold where I stopped last Season [I just didn't bother to play the Promo-Games to try promoting into Gold for some reason]).

one thing that might be happening is that you go one winning streaks which raises your mmr and you are matched with people a bit lower than the other team. in this case, your team would be losing lane more often since they are facing harder players and the system is seeing you higher than the other team and seeing if you can carry.

the system is ok in that way since if a player keeps winning all the way to diamond 5, they can be fighting players of diamond 3 and up, but there team will be only diamond 4 to 5. the more you win, the harder the system will make it to win and if you keep winning, you gain more lp.

Kazaashi3 votes

Pretty much it boils down to this:

40% of your ranked games you are GOING to lose. Feeders/Trolls/AFks and the like on your team. 40% of your ranked games you are GOING to win. Feeders/Trolls/AFks and the like on the other team.

The other 20%, those are the games that you get to have a meaningful impact in and its those games that you have the ability to affect the outcome. You have to find those 20% and make sure you carry your ass off in them.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I think I agree with you most.

Yandere Carry2 votes

Exaggeration, trying to sound like an expert.... Usual QQ. If you are better you will rise in rank.

Occams Raiser1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tang Bohu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-03-06T10:59:58.412+0000)

Exaggeration, trying to sound like an expert.... Usual QQ. If you are better you will rise in rank.

This is a nonsense statement. I'll let it slide. I'm sure in real life you are better than this.

FDS Desperado2 votes

I felt the exact same way when I started, although I dove straight into ranked, got placed in bronze I. Got to silver pretty fast and spent a looong time in silver. Eventually made it to gold and then plat in S4.

Trust me, it doesn't change. You think there is an elo hell, but there isn't, and here is why.

Even where I sit now, according to op.gg there is only about 12% of ranked players above me, and I still deal with the same shit you complain about in bronze. When I was in plat, it was the same story.

There is no elo hell like you are imagining it, the whole game is elo hell. It never gets any better no matter what elo you are in.

Occams Raiser1 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-03-06T15:30:11.327+0000)

I felt the exact same way when I started, although I dove straight into ranked, got placed in bronze I. Got to silver pretty fast and spent a looong time in silver. Eventually made it to gold and then plat in S4.

Trust me, it doesn't change. You think there is an elo hell, but there isn't, and here is why.

Even where I sit now, according to op.gg there is only about 12% of ranked players above me, and I still deal with the same shit you complain about in bronze. When I was in plat, it was the same story.

There is no elo hell like you are imagining it, the whole game is elo hell. It never gets any better no matter what elo you are in.

Thanks. I never looked at it that way. Is there a graph somewhere showing how many players are in each devision?

Ataraxic1 votes

Conclusion is simple: there is an elo hell.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

Yeah, there is an elohell.net for sure It's a fun site.

Occams Raiser1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miss Inaba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-06T08:22:53.035+0000)

Yeah, there is an elohell.net for sure It's a fun site.

Thanks

KillnYall1 votes

Welcome to the Thunder Dome. Where no fk's are given and it is open season.

SurrealJC1 votes

I remember ... I lost 9 out of my first 14 games to afk players. Out of the other 5 games I lost my lane three times, and tried to support twice.
Now when I go support I really don't do it like they do in pro games. I go pure AP and do my best to carry the entire game. I often do as much damage as my ADC.

WOLFJOB1 votes

Whole game is hell. Toxic premades on normals, making life a hell for solo randoms that are used as a resource. duos in rankef foloowing their own plan, narrow mindsets. Some are good and have team skills. You click play knowing you will lose, be trolled, or jerked around by a random group of friends.

Play your best and never turn on your chat.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Well I do actually understand all of your comments. Some say there is no elo hell because the whole game is hell. That is more to the truth than any of the other things. I still don't see why people can't wrap their head around the math of just how much a troll or weak player can effect a game. People think that LOL is a game of great strategy when it is actually just a game of rock paper scissors mixed with Weakest link. There are 11 towers, 4 big buffs, dragon, and baron. the closer tower you get to an inhib the more important it is. Mid tower is best to pressure cause its the shortest distance. Split top and bot with team fights and a Yi\Tryn type champ. Flank and dog pile and gang bang. These are simple concepts that most people get relatively early. The only real variable is the champ pick and the players.

I can, and probably you, can predict who is going to win at champ select with a accuracy. The reason for this is the same reason there is a meta and why you are starting to see assassins dominating mid lane, and player with energy bars are broken. I know not all of them are OP but but that is because most people don't want to work champ on the team, they want to work their own champ. Assuming you aren't smurfing, thinking you carried on your own in a game like this is ridiculous.

If you look at my performance, and from those mere endgame numbers can help me get better, I DARE YOU TO SHOW ME THE ERROR OF MY WAYS AND HELP ME BECOME A BETTER PLAYER SO THAT ONE DAY I MAY BE WORTHY OF FIGHTING AMONG YOUR MIGHTY RANKS!

Win1Ocent1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-03-06T22:23:36.889+0000)

I can, and probably you, can predict who is going to win at champ select with a accuracy. The reason for this is the same reason there is a meta and why you are starting to see assassins dominating mid lane, and player with energy bars are broken. I know not all of them are OP but but that is because most people don't want to work champ on the team, they want to work their own champ. Assuming you aren't smurfing, thinking you carried on your own in a game like this is ridiculous.

I disagree with most of your post actually. I've seen horrible team comps crush the opponent, i've seen the least picked champions do great against the most picked ones. The game is never done in champion select, people may suprise you.

You need the right mind set if you want to climb, you need to believe and be able to carry your team. Imagine a player who never feeds, but never makes any plays either, he pretty much does nothing, for this player it will be completely up to his team if he wins or loses, and that will be pretty much just luck. Nobody is that kind of player, every time you die or make a choice that loses you an objective, you are helping the enemy team win but every time you make a play that result in a kill or an objective you are helping your team win. Some teams needs more help, some needs less.

This is a complicated game to get a rating on, it's not a 1v1 game, so it's hard to determine skill, if we were to play chess and you beat me, it would be much easier to say you are better than me at chess than if we played one game of lol. The difference between chess and lol is the random element league of legends has (the players), but the randomness will even itself out the more games you play. It is very comparable to poker, it is completely random what cards you get, but the better players make sure to lose less when they lose and try to maximize their winnings when they do win, the make small plays that over time make them rich. Truth is, after 200+ games, what team mates you've had in all those games doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what you have done in all those games.

Occams Raiser1 votes

You are misunderstanding the randomness of what might happen with the finite range of choices that need to happen to ensure victory. I mention champion select because there is a meta. There would be no need to show champ pick/ban and win percents if victory had nothing to do with select. I realize that you are making an anecdotal case like many people do. But that doesn't make me wrong.

This game has a lot of variables indeed. But a variable that ranges from 0-100 has a success range that might only be 80-100 and everything below that is a loss. A team that does not throw to baron can be just as likely to win as team that never needs baron. However, keeping baron out of the hands of the opposing team is a factor that must always be considered. I see teams lose games trying to secure dragon. They lose team fights all the time over that sucker.

What is most contradictory to your statement, and those like you, are your own words about these random variables. If you were right, it is actually not about your individual skill level. There is someone out there who gets "trolled\poorly grouped" more than someone else based on a percentage. If there is a range of randomness then everything is not even across the board. There WOULD be a large amount of luck involved with solo queing.

Considering how this is a team game It makes wonder why so much care is ever put towards soloing and why more people aren't making real teams. You would think you would want to get out of solo as fast as possible like the plague. I played with a groupe of the same people for a month one time and my victories doubled. We weren't even that good but TRUST IS OP.

Win1Ocent1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m08jFEso,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2015-03-07T15:36:39.073+0000)

What is most contradictory to your statement, and those like you, are your own words about these random variables. If you were right, it is actually not about your individual skill level. There is someone out there who gets "trolled\poorly grouped" more than someone else based on a percentage. If there is a range of randomness then everything is not even across the board. There WOULD be a large amount of luck involved with solo queing.

You midunderstood me friend. Let me explain further.

There is randomness, we agree so far right? Getting a great midlaner vs someone who never plays mid can have a huge impact on the game. However, if you yourself is that great midlaner, top laner, jungler or whatever, you don't rely on that luck anymore, you don't rely on getting a great adc because you yourself are that great adc.

Some games are harder than others that's for sure, i had a game where we were behind 0/9 in kills and our top laner Gragas left the game, i still ended the game 25/5 as Draven and we won. Here's a link to the game if you want to see it.

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/1982576137/22640119?tab=overview

Like i said, it is similar to poker, if you only play your cards in poker you will need a huge amount of luck in order to get somewhere, it's the same in lol, if you only win with good team mates then yes, you just need luck. And that is exactly my point, you don't want to rely on that luck, and everyone who has ever climbed to diamond don't rely on the luck of getting good team mates, they make the plays, communicates with the team or just plays awesome.

So what i'm saying is this, yes, some players do get more trolls/afkers/feeders/ragers than others, those who climb though are the ones who don't care or don't let them ruin the game but pulls through to victory anyway.

4ManVotedAgainst1 votes

I disagree with this part being "statistically" sound because "statistically" speaking a bad comp has a 90% chance to lose to a good comp amongst competent-players (although most people in ranked still seem to continue to be incompetent). Sure, you MAY get SOME of those "exceptions" and "outliers" but those are "statistical-anomalies" at best and, over a course of multiple matches, statistically they WILL lose MORE OFTEN than win.

{quoted}

I disagree with most of your post actually. I've seen horrible team comps crush the opponent, i've seen the least picked champions do great against the most picked ones. The game is never done in champion select, people may suprise you.

The Queen Viper1 votes

Well, those players you mentioned are in bronze for a reason... u expect bronzies to understand something about this game? Not gonna happen. They will continue doing stupid and random things like that, however in the long run if you do not belong in bronze, you will win more games than you lose.

... it's all about the grinding. But no, there is no such thing as "elo hell", only plenty of bad players who are bronzies for a reason.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Grinding is never fun.

4ManVotedAgainst1 votes

The what... actually: Grinding = Elo-Hell

{quoted} ... it's all about the grinding. But no, there is no such thing as "elo hell", only plenty of bad players who are bronzies for a reason.

Ataraxic1 votes

The grind is Elo Hell.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Occams Raiser

Ok then, what about a NO CONTEST RULE for DCs?
Gameplay166 comments
150
votes
I'm not bying sight stone anymore. Support going on strike.
Gameplay183 comments
71
votes
NEW STAT: Relinquished GOLD. Now you know you suck!
Gameplay83 comments
64
votes
Why won't anyone upgrade their vision Trinkets?
Gameplay145 comments
57
votes
Instead of "Prisioner Island" for trolls. "Rising Tide" for honorable players. Please back this
Gameplay137 comments
53
votes
HOW DARE you play bard in ranked FIRST WEEK!
Gameplay45 comments
35
votes