@Riot: From a Jugg/Tank player, 'gratz on Assassin Update

DeathBurst·Oct 19, 2016·4 votes·882 views

Yo, I have to say, I'm really happy with what I can see on the PBE. Granted, I was never really concerned about Assassins since a/ I do not play them, and b/ I am not their priority target, but still... Most of the updates look AMAZING!!!11

There is time to react and room to outplay, it seems fair, and the new itemization also looks wonderful: less snowbally, more utility, and more skills involved.

If the reality is even half as good as it looks at first glance, Season 7 will be great.

64 Comments

RewtOct 19, 20161 votes

im not entirely sure that utility over snowball is a good thing with assassins. their entire purpose is to snowball.

DeathBurstOct 19, 20162 votes

No. That was true before, but that was a BAD thing, and it was only true because they had NO OTHER alternatives.

Now that the systemic changes gave them more viable alternatives, it's actually a good thing to remove the snowball effect. Because you can't reliably expect to be better than your opponents and snowball a game, unless you are severely under-ranked. It's important for Champions to have something to provide to a game even when they are behind, because once you reached your deserved ranking, you should expect to be behind roughly half the time.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Meanwhile vi and Hecarim can still snowball when fed, but assassins aren't allowed.. Key den

DeathBurstOct 19, 20161 votes

... Just open youtube and look for some PBE gameplay, and you'll see that Assassins still snowball pretty well. They snowball less (as opposed to "not at all"), but to compensate, it's not their only way to win anymore, and you should be happy about that. Going from 10 to 8 is not the same as going all the way down to 0...

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

I sit here and wonder... Why is there this idea in peoples head that I want my champion for example to be overpowered as hell and to have huge snowball and stuff ect ect... I just want my basic Katarina, with basic 10 ms buff and 10-20 HP to make my life easier to climb the ladder against stuff like Hecarim and Vi who ruin my life... Nothing more nothing less... is it too much to ask giving the fact I wasted 8 years on that bloody redhead, learning and mastering and loving her ? Is it? Guess it is... There is no "go watch videos on PBE", because I don't like what i'm forced to get out of it... It's killing what I mastered, killing what I love in her kit and it's all pointless. There is no reason to make every champion overpowered...

Do you know what will happen? Month 1, I wont play kata because perma banned or pick. Month 2, she'll get hard core nerf, I'll be able to play her but she'll be weak and ppl will flame me 24/7, month 3, buff again month 1 repeats... Month 4, they gut her again and don't touch her for a huge period of time OR month 4 is skiped and they are "IDC" mode and leave her at month 3 period and making her unpickable again.... Now you'll call me selfish, for wanting to play a champion I loved and spent so much time on, which is the only reason I even play the game, simply because I want to be able to still play her... Later ask me why I am pissed off at this rework... and why I am tired of ppl keep telling me how "better" it is, it's not better if I cant even pick her anymore...

DeathBurstOct 19, 20161 votes

I sit here and wonder... Why is there this idea in people's head that Katarina is gutted by this rework? I just want them to give it a try, and realize that now that this champion is much less binary, they'll be able to express their skills more, and to have a champion properly balanced that won't oscillate between being pick/ban and being olaf'd every 3 months.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Where do you see balance in that kit? And get real I literally said the major reason of why I hate it, after we skip the no ward jump part... This "new" and "balanced kit" is easier than the older one and needs less skill to master, which annoys me even more... Which again brings me to the point... How am I supposed as a person who plays only her and because of her ,will play her for the next ~4 months after release of the rework? I'm using myself as an example, I'm sure there's other ppl who play only her and enjoy her kit. This rework isn't a PLUS for Katarina players, but for the bad players to be able to play her too... And the even worse ADC mains that hardly know how to farm but think champs are OP, to stand a chance of not dying in 1 second...

More skill = Easier to play ?

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

From a tank/jugg main you say gz, because you see that you can destroy them even easier now? Gee, thanks... More reason to dislike tank mains I guess...

RalanrOct 19, 20167 votes

Well we are supposed to counter you.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20162 votes

I'm supposed to counter ADCs too, but then it turns out that ADCs have more CC/mobility and burst than me, even if I'm full build with glass cannon and he has 4 assassin items and bursts me before I can even get into shunpo range and if I actually do get to do my combo he just has maw to gain huge life steal and magic shield that pretty much gives him the 2 seconds to give me 2crits of 1000 per hit... So your logic is wrong.

RalanrOct 19, 20163 votes

I never said ADCs weren't bullshit.

DeathBurstOct 19, 20162 votes

I don't think ADC are bullshit... But Assassins definitely were, and there is good hope they won't be anymore. :)

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Yeah, a Jhin giving you 2k crit aint bullshit...

RalanrOct 19, 20163 votes

It ain't anymore bullshit than an assassin 100-0 you without realizing what happened.

AstôlfoOct 19, 20162 votes

Neither are bullshit in the slightest.

RalanrOct 19, 20161 votes

Eh. I'll admit I'm salty when on the receiving end of either.

AstôlfoOct 19, 20162 votes

I think a lot of people would. But it's entirely fair. Just annoying.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

ADC can 100:0 you without and counter play in 0.1 sec, assassin is OP for doing it in 1-2 seconds, only if you're a toilet paper ADC or mage... EVEN if the assassins COUNTER THE MAGE/ADC Class, thanks for the logic... Then the tank comes and 2 shots the assassins right back so there's literally no issue if the assassin can OS an ADC....

RalanrOct 19, 20161 votes

Do you honestly expect to survive an attack from a marksman when you're squishy? Especially when they reach enough items in late game?

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

I expect him to n ot build a bruser item aka Maw and survive my full combo and ult long enough to go out of range and bash me 2 basic attacks and kill me... (With huge life steal boost from maw so he can heal back to full HP in the 2 basics)

RalanrOct 19, 20161 votes

Maybe you should try and pop the shield up before you do your full combo.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Are you even playing this game or? clearly you think such stuff are available to do 24/7, I mean yeah in a bot game maybe... but on a live game not...

RalanrOct 19, 20161 votes

24/7 no. Are you suggesting that you need to be able to kill a marksman 24/7?

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

You just said I should be able to do it 24/7, otherwise it's my fault that he is fed, because I wasn't none stop on him, not having a personal farm life for myself, to farm few minions or win my own lanes...

AstôlfoOct 19, 20162 votes

It isn't. It is your fault.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Because I designed him to get over 900 AD, right?

RalanrOct 19, 20162 votes

No, because you didn't put him behind.

If you do your job well enough, Jhin shouldn't be able to get many items at all.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Are you kidding me? I've seen a 0/10 Jhin still getting full build in no time, simply because I cant cut myself into 1000 to stay on him plus to do TFs... How is it always the assassins fault if someone else doesn't do his job I wonder...

RalanrOct 19, 20162 votes

Ok now you're just playing the victim.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

I'm not, just saying how it is...

RalanrOct 19, 20161 votes

No. you're playing the victim.

And throwing around insulting accusations isn't going to help you convince people.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

This is why I hate this community, they claim I insult when I didn't insult even once and later I'm the one considered toxic and punished for not even insulting, but the majority see it as an insult even if there's no insult in anything I said... And no I aint playing any victim. I just hate how my champion gets an undeserved rework which is just annoying and ugly, while your amazing tanks just one shot paper champs and nobody buzzes a fly and considers it balanced...

RalanrOct 19, 20161 votes

You insinuated that two of the people you are arguing with are only good at fighting bots. Is that not insulting?

Look. Sorry for making you feel like we're seeing you as toxic, it's just that you're making stupid claims and pointing out stuff in other classes as though there was no reason for assassins to get a rework. Which is honestly silly.

As for the tank argument. It's hard to take that seriously because most people still don't understand the difference between a tank and a juggernaut. They also really underestimate just how much damage a regular tank can do on base damage alone against targets with little to no resistances.

AstôlfoOct 19, 20164 votes

It'd help if you didn't make such disgustingly exaggerated lies if you want to actually debate.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 20, 20161 votes

umm? thats just a bad argument? you didn't put him behind? you don't control his CS. any adc can cs better than any champion and all you need is decent cs to buy items.

also jhin has the execute on his passive so he doesn't need that much gold to do as much damage as a typical adc.

jhin is one of few bullshit adcs

but adcs are supposed to be bs by design which is really the root to all league balance issues in all levels of play if your open minded enough to think about it

AstôlfoOct 19, 20161 votes

??? I fail to see how that's relevant at all. He has no meaningful escape or peel or mobility otherwise by himself until lategame, and even then, the MS boosts from 100% crit rate won't do shit to an assassin. He also does not get 900+ AD until extreme lategame with near absolute full build + several buffs (Dragons/Elder/Herald and/or Baron, or other teammate buffs through abilities or items).

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

0 infernal drakes, 942 AD, 5 games ago... Ok... And getting fuill build with ADC is easy, cuz the cheap items and this season gold buff on minions... so please do tell me more

AstôlfoOct 19, 20163 votes

How far into the game was it? What was his KDA, build, CS, and gold? Or would you rather conveniently leave that out? So please, do tell me more.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

Maw, that new red assassin blade, boots, BT, Yummi, IE, at 43rd min with 340 CS, because I'm not able to cut myself into 1000 as I stated already :))))

AstôlfoOct 19, 20161 votes

'New red assassin blade'? What's 'Yummi'?

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

The ugly sword that blows up like a zed ult after few seconds. I don't know the name...

item 3147 this thing

and ghostblade... wasn't it yummi back in the days? I don't play AD Zed/talon so idk their item names :x

DeathBurstOct 19, 20161 votes

No, because YOU are the one supposed to counter ADC, just like I'm the one supposed to counter Assassins.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

For everyone 1 me, there's 2 of you and a support defending the ADC, and if my team decides that CC isn't needed and goes 0 CC champs it's complicated to focus the ADC with constant support/tanks on my face. Plus the ADC can easily just solo kill me if he sees me and I don't an escape spell up :] So no...

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

basically it's ok for ADC to destroy their counters, but not for assassins to have at least some minor counter play vs broken stuff like Vi ? Okay... sure... no issues there...

RalanrOct 19, 20162 votes

I never said it was ok for ADCs to destroy their counters (though if you let them see you coming then you probably are going to get killed. The best assassins are the ones that don't get caught).

And what does Vi have to do with this? She's a diver, not a tank or juggernaut.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

She's counter to assassins, that's what... and she can go tank NP, that too. And if enemy has wards, or I need to engage via base, there's no way to stay hidden. Plus there aren't bushes as in many spots as you think. Not all is controlled by me as most ppl like to claim... And still there's ADCs like Jhin and Lucian who don't care and just walk out of you with 20-30% HP thanks to a maw or GA and just burst you down faster than you can burst them down...

DeathBurstOct 19, 20162 votes

Because I can see that Assassins won't be as frustrating to play: against when they are ahead / with when they are behind.

Because, you know, I'm playing WITH Assassins roughly as many times as I'm playing AGAINST them, and I prefer when some guy in my team isn't completely useless just because he died one time during lane phase. It's in my own interest if Assassins are healthy and good to play, even if I don't play them myself. Because, you know, LoL is a team game. I know it's hard for an Assassin to remember, but as a Tank, it's hard to forget about it :p

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

never had to issue to end up 0/5 and be useless in the game, because if there's good teamplay I'll always have that opportunity to gain enough to get back in the game... BUt that's pretty much with all champs, except the special cases like trynda, fiora and jax who just go afk farm for 10 mins and come back solo destroy the enemy and eat the nexus with a spoon...

DeathBurstOct 19, 20162 votes

Either you're the best Assassin/Katarina player I've ever seen, or you're wrong. Because being useless when behind is the main problem almost all Assassins currently have, and that won't be as glaring post-update, and I'm happy about it. And all Assassin players should be as well...

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20161 votes

what are you talking about? I once got stomped by riven and went 0/8, ended 15/8... That doesn't make me best Katarina or assassin, just means I went mid/bot together with my jungler and got kills to get back in game, my team helped me to get back while I help them... And it's not 1-2 cases, I got over 5k Kata games if not 6k, I stopped counting 2 years ago... And I had many cases where I am doing horrible on lane or jungle and still ending fed, or doing amazing 10/0 style and then ended 12/12 or something... Assassins are the most team depending class of all... So you cant claim I'm wrong for something I do from 8 years... This is what people fail to see, they don't play it just speak randomly of what they see, but I do it... Play it and live it from 8 years... Only that, nothing else... I know my class and my focuses... And don't whine about my silver rank on this account, I got loads of accounts, true perma banned for arrogant/sarcastic behavior, because I'm more my champ and than ppl think... I'm even leveling a new smurf atm if that makes you feel better. cough even if I play clumsy the last 2 days cuz of my 2 weeks of only OW and nothing else