Proof the ranked system needs to consider personal gameplay and not just w/l

JhomasTefferson·Jan 5, 2017·2 votes·554 views

Last game i started 7/0 as poppy jungle. I secured two fire dragons. I ganked. I helped push out the lane after kills. We lost mid at 16, before i had died once. Mid inhib. My team was shit, and it made me lose. I seriously dont understand how people can still say "whether you win or lose is on you". I tried to help defend. My team was just too awful. I made the enemy dead so much in the first 10 min.

The loss wasnt on me. Give me an actual explanation of how it could possibly be me

14 Comments

VoidStaresBackJan 5, 20171 votes

Any individual game can be decided by a number of factors, and without watching the replay nobody can say authoritatively what you could have done better. However, your climbing ability is, in the long run, decided by your personal play: if you're better than the players around you, you'll win more games than you lose and move up. Grading based on KDA and other statistics would encourage gaming the system to maximize your personal score and, unless the system was incredibly robust, actually take away from the teamplay aspects of the game.

tl;dr: not every game could you have done something to win it, but if you're a better player you'll move up.

JhomasTeffersonJan 5, 20172 votes

though statistically unlikely, isnt it possible that I'm unlucky enough to always get put on a team that so shitty i cant carry? That will let the enemy mid laner, support, and jungle constantly invade and take my camps, then get pissed if i try to take farm from lane? Is that impossible?

VoidStaresBackJan 5, 20171 votes

Oh it's absolutely possible, although the odds of that happening consistently enough to prevent you from climbing get steadily lower the more games you play. In the end unless you're like one-in-ten-trillion unlucky you'll still climb with enough games, though, assuming higher skill level than your ELO.

Tiago AlfaceJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

though statistically unlikely, isnt it possible that I'm unlucky enough to always get put on a team that so shitty i cant carry? That will let the enemy mid laner, support, and jungle constantly invade and take my camps, then get pissed if i try to take farm from lane? Is that impossible?

Riot forces you to have 50% win rate, its been proved from years ago. If you win 10 match's in row, you wil start getting shittier and shittier team-mates, and you will inventually lose 10 match's in row RIGHT after. You will always be forced to have a 50% win rate, if you can keep it higher you will have higher MMR and win +LP per win and -LP per lose. That way you can climb, just slowly.

I heard DOTA2 uses the same system, not sure.

Tiago AlfaceJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Any individual game can be decided by a number of factors, and without watching the replay nobody can say authoritatively what you could have done better. However, your climbing ability is, in the long run, decided by your personal play: if you're better than the players around you, you'll win more games than you lose and move up. Grading based on KDA and other statistics would encourage gaming the system to maximize your personal score and, unless the system was incredibly robust, actually take away from the teamplay aspects of the game.

tl;dr: not every game could you have done something to win it, but if you're a better player you'll move up.

You will move up, but incredibly slowly, thats not a great system. I agree with him, personal gameplay needs to play a huge role on both LP +(Win) and -(Loss) amounts, maybe 50% personal gameplay and the others 50% the final outcome of the match, that way if you Win the match with a score of 0/15 you will win low amount of LP/MMR, and for example if you Lose the match but your score is like 20/1/10 then you lose less LP. Thats just my opinion, it will make the system fair, and iam sure it would reduce a lot of the frustation on some players that try to carry the teams hard but sadly they cannot win.

VoidStaresBackJan 5, 20171 votes

It's something to consider, certainly, and I do hope that one of these days a Rioter will weigh in with opinions on this because it would be interesting to see their thoughts on the matter. Even if they do change the ranking system, though, it probably won't happen until Season 8, for better or for worse.

PhDs NutsJan 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tiago Alface,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lvFUEe9R,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-01-05T03:04:31.347+0000)

if you Win the match with a score of 0/15 you will win low amount of LP/MMR, and for example if you Lose the match but your score is like 20/1/10 then you lose less LP.

Singed mains cry

L rryJan 13, 20171 votes

No we don't, lol. I do dogshit and still get promoted constantly. B1 to S1 in two weeks haha. Singed

HeeroTXJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Grading based on KDA and other statistics would encourage gaming the system to maximize your personal score and, unless the system was incredibly robust, actually take away from the teamplay aspects of the game.

Riot should introduce a new rank "rookie" or "newb" or whatever. Everyone should START in that rank by default once they begin ranked play. Your escape from that rank should be ENTIRELY dependent on individual play/stats/whatever that is not W-L. This way you KNOW everyone in Bronze and above meets a "minimum" level of ability and smurfs that want to "noob stomp" will get put in a more accurate MMR much faster.

Without that, your rank should be more strongly influenced/determined by your individual play in Bronze-Silver, and follow the current system for Gold+. Because let's be blunt, "teamplay" is not really what's going on at the bottom elos. I'm sick of dealing with bad games and then if I wanna whine my salt out being told "carry the skrubs around you" but then if anyone suggests ranking based on MY perfomance everyone says "its a TEAM game".

Either it IS a "team game" and I can have a lot of VALID frustration related to garbage teammates, OR it is a game of individual skill where I should be better than everyone around me, in which case it is not unfair to ask that I be judged on MY individual merit.

L rryJan 5, 20171 votes

You picked poppy jungle.. I mean there's so many better options to carry; bruisers to be exact.

JhomasTeffersonJan 9, 20171 votes

That clearly wasn't the issue as I not only started off great but also controlled dragon well.

L rryJan 13, 20171 votes

The thing is, tanks can carry. But only when they're on islands. You haven't said what the team comp was to begin with. I'm not trying to be a smartass, but there's a reason bruisers run it. They're tanks who do damage, and exploit how weak the ADC role is early now. Aside from Draven though. Poppy is a tank, she is strong, but there are WAY better junglers who can do what she does, but even better. If you're going to poppy, play it top. It's very strong and her TP ganks are insanely good. I can only think of Naut and Shen who do what she does if she tp's bot pre (bot hitting) 6.