After numerous amounts of reworks to Guinsoo's Rageblade, what do you think of this new iteration?

BLIGHTBRINGER·Nov 12, 2018·15 votes·14,441 views

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_EaUxhQljqk/W-ntyGZJFQI/AAAAAAABK8E/1NBil3HCwcAb-fEtzYFj0a1m0z1JRZReACLcBGAs/s1600/guinsoo.png

88 Comments

Beatrice fallsNov 12, 201826 votes

Just remove this dumbass item from the game

Death by GlamourNov 12, 20182 votes

exactly

another buff to jax yi ect

hell even irelia is going to go back to rageblade frozen fist build...

Beatrice fallsNov 12, 201816 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ln1opK5x,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-12T22:30:26.076+0000)

exactly

another buff to jax yi ect

hell even irelia is going to go back to rageblade frozen fist build...

They don't understand that almost every single Rageblade user doesn't give a damn about the extra damage it applies, it just makes stupid interactions like Vayne Jax Kaisa MasterYi requiring less auto to trigger their stuff

AirKingNeoNov 12, 20187 votes

it's a nerf to every rageblade user and nerfs kai'sa the least

what

Death by GlamourNov 13, 20183 votes

how exactly is this a nerf

armour and magic pen on the one item + the same passive

no one buys this for the AD/AP its all about that passive

Moody PNov 13, 20184 votes

you're wrong, the damage it gave and the scaling on hit it applied were massive chunks of most users DPS

Electro522Nov 13, 20184 votes

I have to agree here. You also have to remember that it is % armor/magic pen, not flat armor pen, and it only scales with champion level. Champs who rush this will likely get it by lvl 6 or 7, so, they are running with only 9% armor/magic pen.....which is just shy of 1% less than Last Whisper, and not even close to what Void Staff gives you.

Even at lvl 18, where it's at it's strongest, it gives FAR less armor/magic pen than either Lord Dominik's or Void Staff, giving only 15% armor/magic pen, which is hardly more powerful than Last Whisper.

So, if anything, I see this as just a means for hybrid users to kind of cut through tanks better.

Pokemonred200Nov 13, 20181 votes

It's also giving less pen than item 3033 , which gives 25% pen at all levels vs 15% at level 18 from new Rageblade. This item is the only source of Grievous Wounds for most AD champions, so unless you're willing to shell out money for a item 3165 , new rageblade can lock you out of an important item for countering heal-heavy champions.

Overall I feel like the %AD and %AP, alongside the scaling passive damage, is a lot more valuable to on-hit champions than the pen is, since one of the biggest strengths of hybrid damage is the fact that it's difficult to itemize against, due to the fact that there aren't very many items that give both Armor and Magic Resist and there are even less that grant both stats AND health (the only one being item 3193 with its active, which I'm not sure counts).

Sire HippingtonNov 13, 20181 votes

the on-hit+stats was alot stronger than the rather low pen it offers now, so it's overall quite a nerf. Still a bad design though.

D357R0Y3RNov 12, 201819 votes

trash trash and trash

basically they had no more idea on how to make guinsoo shit in early game, so this happens:

"hey guys, change %bonus ad/ap to %pen, and while %pen is weaker in early WE WILL MAKE IT 6% RAMPING UP TO 15 THROUGH LVLS!!!"

basically, KogMaw lost a huge amount of powerspike, and late game is similar or worse idk, the numbers would be tough to make but his %bonus ad made him critting way more.

NevrankroatonNov 13, 20181 votes

To be fair, Kogmaw need some help more than an item that allow him to survive/not be trash.

I hope they prepare proper buff for him if he fall down...

Isn't botrk a good first item for him in replacement?

D357R0Y3RNov 13, 20181 votes

It doesn't deal the same damage as guinsoo 1st item you can make the experience yourself really, tho if you do it in practice mode remember that the targets have 10 000 hp or something like that.

Z3SleeperNov 13, 20183 votes

Well Kog Maw is balanced pretty much entirely around this and other on-hit items. He would 100% be changed to match the Guinsoo changes.

no to toxicNov 13, 20181 votes

" KogMaw lost a huge powerspike" How though he is the one rageblade user who benefited from the extra stats the least after Master Yi

D357R0Y3RNov 13, 20181 votes

tbf you can play AP kog, and that's why I do if my team is full ad, and it works well it's like AP kai'sa with rageblade+guinsoo+ap

but even if you build AD kog, you want to build crit and IE and combined with rageblade %bonus ad the crit becomes really big and hurts. Which is why Uzi only built this when kog wasn't out of the meta. But even if you build AD, the AP you get from the passive+normal stats is very good for the on-hit damage + W scaling+ AP scaling on other spells

ModKnightsKemplarNov 12, 20189 votes

I honestly think it's hard to say.

As a pen item, doesn't seem like its going to be rushed anymore, and that's going to mean that guinsoo's users have to rush other items. So what kind of effect it has kind of depends on the particular user we wanted to talk about. It's probably a net nerf to the item, which I think is probably a good thing, but I woudn't be shocked to see it help the late games of at least some users.

Kinda depends on how the stat changes and other stuff turns out in the preseason.

Z3SleeperNov 13, 20181 votes

Come to think of it I think this might become a LW replacement for almost every ADC.

AimléssNov 13, 20181 votes

It's nowhere near as effective as a pen item as LDRs, and it gives a ton of useless stats for crit ADCs.

Z3SleeperNov 13, 20181 votes

Well after looking it up it quite literally is a Last Whisper item. And yeah misunderstood OP, thought it was a stacking effect.

This just looks like a straight gutting of the item for everyone including the abuse cases like Yi.

Hopefully now the champions that actually need it to function will be the only ones given balance changes to use it.

Kurai Mahou noNov 12, 20189 votes

Fking shit for its price. As a Kayle main, I'd still pick it up for phantom hit regardless of the changes, but the price does not justify the stats it currently has.

Z3SleeperNov 13, 20181 votes

Kayle rework soon and hopefully before then they just buff up Kayle herself since this is kind of core on her.

I think the best place to look is just her base AD scaling and base damage scaling on E since AP Kayle (not on-hit) is relatively unaffected by this.

LetMeCarry1983Nov 12, 20187 votes

That looks weak as fuck. 15% pen isn't shit, not to mention you don't even get the 15 until you're level 18. Guinisoo's Rageblade will be a complete shit item after that change.

BLIGHTBRINGERNov 12, 20181 votes

I wonder how much Winrate-Wise my main champion (Varus) will be affected...

He's still one of the worst Marksman, even if lots of people play him.

LetMeCarry1983Nov 12, 20182 votes

This iteration no longer scales off AD/AP. It will be purely an on-hit item so my guess is you would have to start building a lot of on-hit items on Varus if you want him to succeed now using this version of the Rageblade. Varus builds could start including items like item 3153 item 3115 item 3091 .

LeftyRaydyNov 13, 20181 votes

Kog maw would be so disgusting with this as well as Kai Sa. although squishy as hell.

LetMeCarry1983Nov 13, 20181 votes

I don't think 15% pen at level 18 is anything special. I think all current users will be far weaker with this version. Only champ I think of that would actually want to build this now is Shyvana since she does both magic and physical damage in an almost equal ratio. A little bit of pen on her could actually maker her a bit stronger but nothing to go crazy over. It will make it just barely viable on her.

InfernapeNov 13, 20181 votes

Erasing 15% of a champs MR and armour is a large amount. Especially on champions that can tank bust (Kai'Sa, Kog etc.)

I lit your babyNov 13, 20182 votes

35% is barely enough to deal with tanks.

And you're talking about 15%, lmao

InfernapeNov 13, 20181 votes

15% on champions that **already **deal %HP damage is still a lot.

I lit your babyNov 13, 20181 votes

It's even unnoticeable.

Even their hp shred is complete waste and valueble only because of second rage passive.

D357R0Y3RNov 13, 20181 votes

it isn't if said champ lost a fucking ton of %ad/ap

WeeningWeinersFeb 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That looks weak as fuck. 15% pen isn't shit, not to mention you don't even get the 15 until you're level 18. Guinisoo's Rageblade will be a complete shit item after that change.

You know pen items are super busted rn if i get Three armor items and get 250 to 300 which is only 76 to 80% resistance armor which is half my item pool then someone can go rageblade and bork and one more pen item to negate 50% or more of my armor alone while healing and shredding anyone who tried to stop them regardless of being tanky.

Daddy ReTaricNov 12, 20185 votes

Release Guinsoo was fine, but they had to create a monstruosity for nothing..so Guinsoo with Tiamat Aoe was created... After devourer fail, they decide to remove it altogether and place the phantom hit on Guinsoo and created another mess... The phantom hit is what break the item. All i can say is, I don't wanna go back to the feral flare failure..

AirKingNeoNov 12, 20185 votes

#It's a nerf to every rageblade user and nerfs kai'sa the least.

GrReaper96Nov 13, 20182 votes

Plus it nerfs AP dps (particularly Kayle ) the most

DarkneslsoNov 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

#It's a nerf to every rageblade user and nerfs kai'sa the least.

If anything it buffs kai'sa late game power to shred tanks

Agent CorgiNov 12, 20184 votes

They also changed Void Staffs UNIQUE Passive. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YvNGHjrwMeI/W-ntyFI2gYI/AAAAAAABK8I/TW2WkeoWZ8U0yJNEeTAtHQM8mgMI5-amQCLcBGAs/s1600/void.png

The name of the passive is now Dissolve, which is also the same name of the Magic Penetration passive on Guinsoo's. This also applies with Lord Dominik's/Mortal Reminder's Last Whisper Passive.

More over, I feel like this change was done so that the Armor/Magic Penetration recieved from Guinsoo's can't be stacked with other Pen Items. If they stacked, then it might have been a problem for those who could benefit from having a combination of these Items.

Violet FieldsNov 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}

They also changed Void Staffs UNIQUE Passive. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YvNGHjrwMeI/W-ntyFI2gYI/AAAAAAABK8I/TW2WkeoWZ8U0yJNEeTAtHQM8mgMI5-amQCLcBGAs/s1600/void.png

The name of the passive is now Dissolve, which is also the same name of the Magic Penetration passive on Guinsoo's. This also applies with Lord Dominik's/Mortal Reminder's Last Whisper Passive.

More over, I feel like this change was done so that the Armor/Magic Penetration recieved from Guinsoo's can't be stacked with other Pen Items. If they stacked, then it might have been a problem for those who could benefit from having a combination of these Items.

Personally I don't see the point of them making the passive unique when the game caps you at 40% magic pen anyway...

TerozuNov 13, 20188 votes

There isn't a cap on Magic Pen...

That's CDR

Violet FieldsNov 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There isn't a cap on Magic Pen...

That's CDR

No, there is, lol. When I took the 7% of the magic pen back in season 7 with void staff it didnt give me 42% it gave me 35%. I'm not talking about CDR. People on these boards don't ever test anything.

Pokemonred200Nov 14, 20182 votes

That's because magic pen stacks multiplicatively, which makes stacking Magic Pen less effective.

If you had %magic pen from sources outside of that rune and Void Staff, it would have put you at above 40%.

zZ KanKuro ZzNov 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They also changed Void Staffs UNIQUE Passive. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YvNGHjrwMeI/W-ntyFI2gYI/AAAAAAABK8I/TW2WkeoWZ8U0yJNEeTAtHQM8mgMI5-amQCLcBGAs/s1600/void.png

The name of the passive is now Dissolve, which is also the same name of the Magic Penetration passive on Guinsoo's. This also applies with Lord Dominik's/Mortal Reminder's Last Whisper Passive.

More over, I feel like this change was done so that the Armor/Magic Penetration recieved from Guinsoo's can't be stacked with other Pen Items. If they stacked, then it might have been a problem for those who could benefit from having a combination of these Items.

unless they buff the pen on rageblade I rly doubt that someone who buys void staff would want rageblade instead even if it is some ap AA reliant champ

Moody PNov 12, 20183 votes

i love it fam

perfect Volibear item

xxxMadLionxxxNov 12, 20183 votes

I think they should have split the item in 2. One for the phantom on hit, the other for the AP/AD on hit.

The PatriachyNov 13, 20182 votes

Riot's balance team weren't always this arrogant. When there was an item that made your next 3 auto attacks crits. they decided to remove it from the game since there was no way to make it a non-toxic item.

Rageblade is an item that is either going to be incredibly weak or incredibly strong because of the interaction it has with some champion's on hit abilities. Same thing with dusk blade and champions that can re-stealth. Same thing with Storm Razor + Predator Hecarim.

Zero forethought. Just random items.

Late Game KayleNov 13, 20182 votes

As a Kayle main, I feel that this is a pretty big nerf. Mainly because she likes the large amount of AP the current Rageblade grants, and doesn't benefit that much from the pen the new one gives because she already has % pen on her passive.

Support PositionNov 13, 20181 votes

Nice and broken

MasterYi Can't wait to be stronger

Kaisa LOL

BLIGHTBRINGERNov 13, 20184 votes

Oh boi can't wait to see the MasterYi with...

Conqueror (20% of all Damage converted into True Damage) + New Rageblade (15% Armor Pen at level 18) + Bloodrazor (4% Maximum Health Damage) + Bork (8% current Health Damage) + E (True Damage on Every AA) + Passive (synergy with Rageblade proc'ing On-Hit effects 3 times) = Skillful/Balanced Damage

Kaisa is just another case of craziness I won't go into.

Support PositionNov 13, 20181 votes

Trundle Might come back in the meta hopefully. This might make him viable pick again especially since I heard jungle exp is getting nerfed.... Again... and Scuttles are gonna have to be fought over by junglers only since laners need their own exp and gold :/