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More thoughts on Aatrox again after more games. Did I drink the Riot Kool-Aid?????

Failog··13 votes·1,888 views

In the end, I am an Aatrox main and I am going to make him work no matter what Riot does.

I feel he is almost there. There are 3 scenarios which, if happened, I would shut about it and just focus on playing

1)Needing 4 stacks instead of 5 (each ability and Blood Price fills 25% instead of 20%)

OR

2)Massacre fills 50% Blood Well for each champion hit.

OR

3)Blood Rush drains over 6 seconds instead of 4

The way he is now I am starting to play him topped off. I know some of you want to max his E first...I think that this nonsense in most match ups. Max W and enjoy keeping your health topped off, which is much easier to do than with the old heal because the base amounts of heal are higher, especailly with the 8% healing bonus from your Masteries. Remember you have more starting health too, and that really does help with early trades. Also 13 second cool down on Q is now much better, but I would max E 2nd if there is still some use in lane for poking, otherwise I will max Q 2nd. If you do that, with a build such as item 3812 item 3078 item 3065 item 3006 you will have 40% CDR and his dive at max level will have around a 7 second cool down.

item 3812 is great because the high AD is needed for all of his abilities. The 10 CDR is useful to use abilities faster for chasing, escaping or stacking Blood Well. The damage over time is great to help him not be as easily bursted down, and artificially extends Blood Rush by 3 seconds. I am not a fan ofitem 3153 right now. I prefer item 3078. I will often get an early item 3044 while I finish item 3812

I know a lot of you are doing all this weird item 3053 item 3748 stuff. I don't agree with it. The movement speed and passive movement speed from item 3078 is so valuable and its always on. You could get some of that movement speed with item 3071 but the 40% attack speed combined with item 3006 gives you very adequate attack speed if you brought runes. And while Aatrox doesn't spam abilities, the spellblade from item 3078 can easily be activated many times in a fight and works great with this Blood Rush AD bonus.

The above build may not work for some of you unless you are very advanced with Aatrox. You need to be able to hold your own long enough to finish item 3078 before you build tanky. The good news is because the build path on item 3078 is so easy, you can build item 3044 item 3057 and in between pick up a item 3082 or a item 3211 depending on the situation.

After all of that you can build any one or 2 of item 3143 item 3742 item 3068 item 3026 item 3075 with possibly a item 3153 at the end for extra damage against the later game champions. I am not a fan of item 3748 item 3053. Aatrox STILL needs Attack Speed, and you sure as hell are not going to get it from and early item 3153, so Trinity Force for my play style is perfect. Some of you can make item 3124, but I am not a fan for a lot of reasons.

item 3812 item 3006 item 3078 item 3065 item 3143 item 3026 is probably going to be my main build for a while. I will let you guys know how it goes. The ONLY thing item 3071 has over item 3078 is 150 HP and 15 more AD and the armor pen, BUT I still believe its Aatrox job to chase down and dive squishies (at least, that is what I do with him), so item 3078 serves that purpose much better and also helps him heal faster, and the armor pen is not as useful in those situations as what item 3078 brings to the table.

41 Comments

RexSaur3 votes

This thread is basically : "please make my main broken then i'll shut up".

SirLapse4 votes

{quoted}

This thread is basically : "please make my main broken then i'll shut up".

The third change actually is what other people have been asking for on another topic with quite a bunch of upvotes. It's noting some item synergies so I assume you just skimmed the post.

Failog7 votes

My suggestions were quite reasonable

Trap or a Trick2 votes

As an aatrox main myself (I think name is proof enough) I think you're going at him kinda the wrong way, ive had mad success with tanktrox, 18/0/12 taking extra healing, attack speed and warlords bloodlust. rush -item 3082- or if you're against ap like rumble get -item 3211- instead, If facing a tank rush item 3071 as your first item, if you aren't, get item 3748 instead, you will be getting both either way, but the order DOES matter. Afterwards finnish off that item 3082 or item 3211 into either item 3143 or item 3065 respectively. Now the world is your oyster, If you're fed go item 3078 if you aren't doing so hot, get that item 3053 for the amazing synergy with your passive, I Personally don't think you should buy attack speed on aatrox now, 55% from passive 50% from 32% from runes and masteries (rounded up) That means you get 137% attack speed, with an auto attack reset.

And about your maxing order, I HIGHLY recommend never maxing e 2nd, Max w into q or e into w, maxing e second is terrible, its gonna be ussless other than the slow and stacking your passive, and Q has a lower cooldown than e at max rank (if I'm not mistaken) and E damage is just all around underwhelming... UNLESS you max it first in which maxing q gets similar issues to maxing e second the damage is underwhelming, cooldown is too long and w just makes more sense.

But these are just my personal opinion and if you don't like it then oh well, but I really think you should try it out atleast once :)

little example of full build: item 3748 item 3047 item 3085 item 3175 item 3042 and item 3104 with the item 3345 trinket of course

for realskies tho item 3047 item 3748 item 3071 item 3053 item 3078 item 3065 item 3340

Failog1 votes

Ive tried your build already , and I didn't like. I am a very strong laner with Aatrox. Like I said it might not work for others, but I can trash a tank in lane with item 3812 I'll play some games on this account, maybe 10 or 20 ranked matches and then we will see how it pans out. I could be totally wrong. I disagree with you about attack speed. I think it is still highly valuable

"And about your maxing order, I HIGHLY recommend never maxing e 2nd, Max w into q or e into w, maxing e second is terrible, its gonna be ussless other than the slow and stacking your passive, and Q has a lower cooldown than e at max rank (if I'm not mistaken) and E damage is just all around underwhelming... UNLESS you max it first in which maxing q gets similar issues to maxing e second the damage is underwhelming, cooldown is too long and w just makes more sense"

Um, isn't that what I basically said? Max W and lean towards Q next?

Statchecky1 votes

Well I'm still working on making him jungle well and so I kinda have to build item 3077

My build is looking like this right now: item 3111 oritem 3047 item 1413 item 3078 item 3748 item 3065 item 3512

I feel that Tforce gives enough attack speed to get you into passive but you have to be tanky enough to make use of it, but your build covers that too. Also I'm using warlords.

Deaths Dance looks like a good idea I just don't know where to fit it into my build.

SirLapse1 votes

I'm going to stick with item 3748 based builds since the active is an AA reset. BoTRK is better vs. things like Darius that build BC first since you'll be shredding their freshly built HP. Really match-up dependent item builds.

Failog1 votes

BOTRK is better, but there is value in survivability that comes with the exta coold own and 15% damage taken over 3 seconds, and the 75 AD is nothing to sneeze at. I used to lay waste to Darius nearly 100 percent of the time with a Frozen Mallet with Aatrox back when it used to give 40 AD. It fucked him so hard, it turned into a near free win.

agbudar1 votes

so full build? item 3047 because you need them period item 3078 i would have gotten cleaver but i get your valid point on the attack speed also better stats in general for someone like aatrox item 3812 ehm yea makes perfect sense item 3065 again makes perfect sense item 3022 again this makes sense to me item 3053 works great in tandem with trinity and i do believe it scales pretty decently with aatrox.

Failog1 votes

I mean, that seems fine unless you need armor.

agbudar1 votes

yea on second thought probably exchange item 3053 with item 3143

Leonerdo1 votes

Hadn't thought about the Death's Dance synergy before, I'll have to try that instead of BotRK (when I'm not fighting tanks).

That plus Triforce, though... I don't think I can get away with such an offensive build. I'd do it if there was another tank/fighter/dive-buddy on my team, but toplane tanks is the meta right now, so usually I have to fill that role.

So BotRK is usually my first and item and only offensive (it gives him a little bit of all the offensive stats he wants), and then it's Black Cleaver(if I can afford to wait for tankiness)/Deadman's/Randuin's/Spirit Visage. And if the game goes late enough, I get Titanic Hydra since I already have a ton of HP by that point. And of course I max E for difficult lanes, and W otherwise. Still not sure if Q should be second or third.

Also, are you posting on your main or a smurf? I'm not super concerned about your rank, but you only have 2 Aatrox games on this account...

Failog1 votes

Yes I haven't touched this account much since the season started, and I fucked around in placements and I had no reason really to waste time climbing out of Bronze. But now its a great testing ground so I'm going to start playing Aatrox on this account and see what pans out. I just built item 3022 item 3047 item 3143 item 3075 and wrecked a Darius on an AD heavy team. I did the most damage 9/3/22. So, yeah...interesting.

Leonerdo1 votes

I'm debating with myself whether or not I should continue to pry about your main account. I'd like to talk about ELO vs. playstyle differences, but it's probably not worth it. Oh well.

Yeah, tanking really is a good option on him now (keyword: option). He's honestly a much better Draintank now than before, ya'know, since he actually has some benefit from building tank (doesn't kill himself by using abilities, HP instead of AD scaling on heal, slightly better base damage). Before he had plenty of drain, but no tank; new Aatrox is a much better balance.

Which is why there are sooo many decent item builds on him. Pretty much any fighter, bruiser, or tank item (except sunfire cape, fuck that noise) can be good on him for some situation or another.

Oh, and I almost forgot to say I agree that his passive really needs to be easier to stack or easier to keep up. For me, the biggest issue is how easily it falls back to 0% if you're not in a position to fight constantly. Especially when you're behind in lane enough that you can't approach the minions safely, meaning you just don't ever get your passive buff.

Failog1 votes

Yes, easier to stack would make a huge difference. But 6 seconds instead of 4 would also be great. I'm okay with any of those

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

I liked the way it worked before the rework. Don't know what was supposed to be so op that it has to get nerfed hard.

SirLapse3 votes

{quoted}

I liked the way it worked before the rework. Don't know what was supposed to be so op that it has to get nerfed hard.

Your opponent wouldn't know exactly when you'd be planning to go in and your power level was deceptively higher than the opponent thinks. This is a major problem with "stat checking" champions, because there's generally no counter-play to what they're doing unless you've overcome the burden of knowledge.

It actually only delayed Aatrox's ability to fight to lv3-4 but otherwise does around the same performance of defeating the opponent, even if the damage up-front was nerfed. He scales much better for teamfights so it's a fair enough trade-off as long as you know how to play his early game.

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

{quoted}

Your opponent wouldn't know exactly when you'd be planning to go in and your power level was deceptively higher than the opponent thinks. This is a major problem with "stat checking" champions, because there's generally no counter-play to what they're doing unless you've overcome the burden of knowledge.

It actually only delayed Aatrox's ability to fight to lv3-4 but otherwise does around the same performance of defeating the opponent, even if the damage up-front was nerfed. He scales much better for teamfights so it's a fair enough trade-off as long as you know how to play his early game.

Maybe they should implent a button which you have to press before going in which notifys the enemy that you want to attack so even the worst scrub can turtle his lane?

Still don't understand this stat-checking bullshit. When I feel an oppurtunity to win a fight against my opponent I go in. And when my opponent doesn't know how to counterplay he looses. That goes for every hero. And Aatrox had plenty counterplay. Thats the gameplay of lol.

And Aatrox snowballing his enemy without any counterplay was certainly not the problem of this hero. Like Riot just saw that some Aatrox mains sometimes got this hero to work by winning their lane and the only thing riot changed was nerfing this haha.

It's like Riot doesn't want variety. Aatrox players should go just play and lame with tryndamere or irelia. This heroes have healthy gameplay for sure.

SirLapse2 votes

{quoted} Still don't understand this stat-checking bullshit. When I feel an oppurtunity to win a fight against my opponent I go in. And when my opponent doesn't know how to counterplay he looses. That goes for every hero. And Aatrox had plenty counterplay. Thats the gameplay of lol.

And Aatrox snowballing his enemy without any counterplay was certainly not the problem of this hero. Like Riot just saw that some Aatrox mains sometimes got this hero to work by winning their lane and the only thing riot changed was nerfing this haha.

If you were aware of any of his stats, he was literally #1 top lane winrate at 0-25 minutes and games that went past that he got dumpstered. This is in high elo where people supposedly know a lot.

The important thing about the information is how telegraphed it is. Stat checking means you need to know exact math which is highly impractical in-game. I'm 100% sure you don't do the exact math behind your trades and all-ins so expecting your opponent to do so is extremely unfair. There's also the fact that this champion is hard-countered otherwise because he had low survivability and his DPS was attached to AAs as the his skill damage falls off. He was winning entirely off of the lack of counter-play to his early game.

Do your research first before you want to make assumptions.

Ahegao Bunny1 votes

{quoted}

If you were aware of any of his stats, he was literally #1 top lane winrate at 0-25 minutes and games that went past that he got dumpstered. This is in high elo where people supposedly know a lot.

The important thing about the information is how telegraphed it is. Stat checking means you need to know exact math which is highly impractical in-game. I'm 100% sure you don't do the exact math behind your trades and all-ins so expecting your opponent to do so is extremely unfair. There's also the fact that this champion is hard-countered otherwise because he had low survivability and his DPS was attached to AAs as the his skill damage falls off. He was winning entirely off of the lack of counter-play to his early game.

Do your research first before you want to make assumptions.

Yeah sure. Very commonly known that you could cheese so easy with aatrox. Thats why noone plays him in a game where everyone just picks whatever is cheesy enough to push their elo. And still don't understand whats unfair about that? It's always exactly like that. Fought countless times against Fiora, Irelia etc assuming i could win the fight but ended up loosing. Wow 1 death heartbreaking but next time you know it better.

Really good to know that riot rescues the few scrubs who lost to an aatrox because they misjudged the situation by simply making aartrox worthless.

Failog2 votes

You two are both correct and both wrong. Haha.

Aatrox did thrive off of enemies miscalculating trades, but I think a lot of this is due to many players having very little experience playing against Aatrox. So while stat-checking was an issue, it might have been lessened if Riot did something to make the old Aatrox more popular.

And Wendin is right that there was plenty of counterplay against the old Aatrox.

Also, it took me A LOT of games to learn how to squeeze the most out of Aatrox in terms of coming out ahead in situations that seemed very risky and marginal. A new old Aatrox player just doesn't start stat checking after a few matches. They usually just get wrecked.

And of course, I have 95% of the time demolished any Aatrox I played against in lane because of how easy he was to shut down. You want windows of power? His dive is on CD, go in and hit him hard. Build items that counter him. Focus him with teammates when his revive is on CD.

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

You two are both correct and both wrong. Haha.

Aatrox did thrive off of enemies miscalculating trades, but I think a lot of this is due to many players having very little experience playing against Aatrox. So while stat-checking was an issue, it might have been lessened if Riot did something to make the old Aatrox more popular.

And Wendin is right that there was plenty of counterplay against the old Aatrox.

That's after lane is over. Talking about lv1-6 where your base stats means everything. If the enemy engages on you on old Aatrox, the only sure way to know if you'll win is by left-clicking the Aatrox and stat checking. It's not about dodging a skillshot or waiting for the Aatrox to blow a CD, unless he's dumb enough to blow his jump on a trade he won't win. It's either you can beat his heal/damage out or you can't and simply lose. Irelia literally functions the same way but scales as a fighter, so people go around that. But her early game is considered to be one of the worst. Aatrox is what happens when it's strong and can't scale defensively too well.

Riot can't artificially change popularity so there's no solution to that sadly. It's how it is for other champions like pre-rework Galio/Rammus that never see usual play across every meta but in very niche situations succeeds better than any other champion.

Failog1 votes

" It's either you can beat his heal/damage out or you can't and simply lose"

Sorry but it snot the simple. Game does not exist in a vacuum. AFTER laning, which are you talking about, means team fights. Means that enemy who is going to lose a trade could disengage and let a teammate CC Aatrox. Or any other number of situations where a fight occurs when Aatrox Ult is down, or his passive is down.

The game and champions are not black and white cut and dry situations that you can sum up in one short sentence.

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

" It's either you can beat his heal/damage out or you can't and simply lose"

Sorry but it snot the simple. Game does not exist in a vacuum. AFTER laning, which are you talking about, means team fights. Means that enemy who is going to lose a trade could disengage and let a teammate CC Aatrox. Or any other number of situations where a fight occurs when Aatrox Ult is down, or his passive is down.

The game and champions are not black and white cut and dry situations that you can sum up in one short sentence.

A fed Aatrox back then was extremely difficult to punish because of the 100% stat uptime like I mentioned before already. If you don't have enough damage to kill him then CC and other factors aren't as relevant, and that's why he falls off really hard past 25 min. His ult is on a low CD so Idk why you wouldn't have it ready for fights.

The black and white nature I'm speaking of is feast or famine, not game pace or other generic existences that have nothing to do with Aatrox specifically and are more dependent on the game state in general. It certainly can summarize a situation like what Aatrox did have.

Failog1 votes

Why do I bother. You are right. Everyone else is wrong. You have to argue every single god damn point. You never concede an inch on anything. You should check your ego dude. If I can detect it over this, then it must be repulsive to people in real life. Dont comment on my posts anymore please.

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

Why do I bother. You are right. Everyone else is wrong. You have to argue every single god damn point. You never concede an inch on anything. You should check your ego dude. If I can detect it over this, then it must be repulsive to people in real life. Dont comment on my posts anymore please.

If you've got the statistics and gameplay evidence to go and counter my point, then do so. I'm not seeing that at all really and people arbitrarily want to believe that because an argument is well-worded or something then it's automatically right. Aatrox wouldn't have needed these changes if he was existing in a healthier game state, because otherwise he'd be seeing the same buff/nerfs that other champions see.

Do you believe the feast or famine pattern was not on Aatrox? Can you explain what "stat checking" is to be saying that Aatrox wasn't a case of that? Explain then. We can compare that to objective evidence like his statistics and not just playstyle alone. I already presented the info that his winrate was the absolute highest early and practically dumpstered later in. Top lane of course and in high elo. I'm not really going to be prone to believing otherwise if there is no dynamic to that information that makes it less valid as to how Aatrox existed. I'm all for listening to people but I don't change my opinion without greatly putting it to the test.

There's no ego in wanting the absolute confirmation of what to believe and comparing what you know to others, noting the nuances in how they obtain the information and what information each side is lacking. Since people inherently have no knowledge of what knowledge they lack unless they're progressing toward something, they rely on others to assist with that. I'm just executing that dynamic.

Failog1 votes

STFU. You are hand down the most annoying person I've ever had to deal with on the boards. I am so uninterested in your reply I didn't even read it. Stop commenting on my posts

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

STFU. You are hand down the most annoying person I've ever had to deal with on the boards. I am so uninterested in your reply I didn't even read it. Stop commenting on my posts

Well then that's not me, that's you then. It's as simple as not replying man. Don't take it personally, it's not a crime to talk with people over topics where disagreements are going to happen.

Failog1 votes

I did too

DrCyanide1 votes

Just curious if you've tried him Jungle with item 1419 . I've only played one game against reworked Aatrox, and he was a Jungler that built that and got stupid fed. I don't know how much of him getting fed was my teammates stupidity and how much of it was synergy with the item.

Failog1 votes

I plan to try it with a item 1413 and tanky masteries and item 3071 as a 2nd item instead of item 3078.

I feel like it might be okay because of the buff his CDR got on his Q.

lightdragoon881 votes

Death's Dance....not a bad idea for him.

I do like BC, but you are right that the attack speed of item 3078 does make it more appealing to Aatrox.

What about item 3083? If you are getting things like item 3078 item 3065 item 3742 you would reach the 3000 mark right?

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

Death's Dance....not a bad idea for him.

I do like BC, but you are right that the attack speed of item 3078 does make it more appealing to Aatrox.

What about item 3083? If you are getting things like item 3078 item 3065 item 3742 you would reach the 3000 mark right?

You need resistances more than HP. Warmog's hasn't been a good generic item for years now and is only useful if you're so ahead that you're confident the opponent will give you 20 seconds to heal up.

Failog1 votes

Well Warmogs of course does synergize great with Spirit Visage. It could be a last item if their team is true damage heavy

lightdragoon881 votes

I was thinking Warmog because his heal is now % missing so the more HP he has, the more he can be missing and thus the more he recovers from it.

And if people do go item 3748 (for waveclear) Warmog can boost it damage.

So what would you think of:

item 3006 item 3078 item 3748 item 3143 item 3065 item 3083 item 2140

SirLapse1 votes

{quoted}

I was thinking Warmog because his heal is now % missing so the more HP he has, the more he can be missing and thus the more he recovers from it.

And if people do go item 3748 (for waveclear) Warmog can boost it damage.

So what would you think of:

item 3006 item 3078 item 3748 item 3143 item 3065 item 3083 item 2140

My personal opinion is that first item is extremely dependent on matchup and Warmog's is a noobtrap (always has been since a long while ago). Tri Force is expensive and if you're fighting a tank then Cleaver will always be better. Defensive boots are better because Berserker Greaves are too expensive while Tabi reduce 12% damage from AAs.

item 3026 get this instead of Warmog, it will go a long way I assure you.

You can find your own niche build too like what the OP is attempting to do and see what works for you.

Failog2 votes

I mean, it looks potent in the right situations! Depends on your play style. Try it in normals see what happens.

lightdragoon881 votes

Now that I finally had a day off from work I was able to do 2 games.

The First......was horrible.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2458593403/201418121?tab=overview

Was against a Jax, the Shyvana jungler camped my lane..and our 'support' Galio....went full AP.

Second game....was amazing.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2458616814/201418121?tab=overview

Went much better. Won my lane. And only died 1 in a team fight. (the 3 other deaths were from trying to save my teammates from 1v3s. )

Spoofghoul1 votes

I think this build is even better

item 3006 item 3812 item 3748 item 3071 item 3065 + one of these item 3143 / item 3742 / item 3068

Get the remaining attackspeed from runes and scaling resists Plenty of hp and resists but also 40% cdr and a lot of attackspeed Just like OP's build

But it also has armorshred in aoe for utility And with hydra + DD you can heal for about 5% of hp per hit extra And you still have the hydra active for burst

Failog1 votes

I'm not impressed with the AOE from Titanic Hydra. My build that I talked about includes full attack speed runes and scaling resistances. Yet I still want more attack speed. And like I said, I am not so concerned about armor shred. You will win the fight if you can take out 1 or 2 of their squishes with good dives and good stick, which Trinity Force can provide. Let the rest of the team deal with the tanks and then you can help them out after.

AlienPrimate1 votes

I haven't played him much but I'm a fan of full attack speed runes with this build orderitem 3748 item 3124 then any combination of item 3065 item 3143 item 3742 item 3068 item 3022 item 3078 item 3812 depending on how I'm doing. I use 12-0-18 runes with grasp. I know grasp isn't that good, but find the trade off from taking it to get free tenacity to be worth it.

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