If winning ranked doesn't matter to you , play normals

Failog·Jan 10, 2017·136 votes·6,098 views

Quite a simple concept. If you REALLY don't care, don't ruin it for everyone else. Such a rude and inconsiderate mindset these league players have.

168 Comments

StephenizgodJan 10, 201731 votes

Its funny the "its just a game comments" here lol. People misunderstanding what is being said. This is a game, and it is meant to be fun. If you are not trying to win, you are intentionally trying to ruin my fun, I am going to get annoyed. I am not talking about raging or having a heart attack, I am saying I am pretty upset because you basically wasted 45 minutes of my time because you are a terrible person... If you are someone who rages, throw fits, or cusses out other people over this game, then you need to check your life because you sound miserable. However if I get annoyed that you didn't try, there is nothing wrong with that. It is your fault for not trying.

If you don't care whether you win or lose, go to Normals, that is the place for that attitude. You can't "try to win" if you don't care whether you win... That is not how that works, you need to actually care in order to accomplish something. Otherwise you are giving a half-assed performance and that is not trying to win. You can't go into a sport saying "eh I don't care whether we win or lose, so I will just give enough effort not to be the reason we lose" because that puts everything on your teammates. Me caring about winning, does not mean I take the game too seriously, I am playing Ranked to win and I expect my teammates to do the same. When I go to Normals, sure the end result doesn't matter because for the most part I am going into Normals to test things or try something stupid to see if it works.

If you go into Ranked, you need to care about winning, if not for yourself, then for your teammates who are putting their faith in you that you will try to win.

Spaceman5pffJan 10, 201726 votes

I don't play ranked to win. I play ranked to give my best performance at all times, and to learn from my mistakes and how to improve on them.

I used to play ranked to win, I demoted from bronze 1 to 3, and almost kept going down, then I took a break. I realized that I needed to change my mindset from winning the game, to playing my best. Even more important than this, was that I realized that winning / losing your lane is not the deciding factor. I came back to ranked and always tried to play my best: Hit my farm goal, punish mistakes by my enemy, always push into the tower if i get a kill / force my enemy to recall (help my laner push if i am jungling), deny them cs in any way possible.

I climbed STRAIGHT up to silver this way. This may not seem like a big deal to plat+ players (gold players will lie and say they don't know but they do) but to people who are familiar with / still in the get out of bronze struggle, it is hard as fuck. Players that BELONG plat+ will get out just fine, but there are so many pissy little fuckers out there in bronze / silver that you really do have to fight your own team sometimes.

TLDR: I don't play to win every game, because that is not an attainable goal. I play to do my absolute best each game, because that is an attainable goal, and in the cases where I don't reach it, I have nobody to blame but myself, no excuses.

Aiming to win every game is setting yourself up to fail.

9 XJan 10, 20176 votes

I climbed through sheer luck.

The system put all the winners on my team when it mattered, and most of my losses were at 0 LP.

StephenizgodJan 11, 20171 votes

I believe you are mistaking what I mean slightly, it is hard to fully express my meaning because sometimes words have multiple meanings or are not fully understood. When I say "I play to win" what I mean is I am playing at my best with the intentions to try everything in my power to win. It doesn't mean I won't accept a loss or that I believe I am perfect. I play to improve and to show my skill, that is best represented in me winning.

I don't mean that I only play Ranked to win like its my only goal. I play Ranked to test what I have learned and see what I need to improve on, but my intention is to win. I am playing to win, I am trying my best, I am giving 100% of my effort. It isn't what drives me though, winning is a symptom of improving and that is my goal. I want to get better, which is why it irks me when people play Ranked without the same drive and goal. It is hard to judge yourself when you are doing good but you keep losing because half your team has 15+ deaths (this is happening way too often). There is always something to improve on, but it makes it hard to judge my skill because the end results are skewed by teammates.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20173 votes

Don't really see how it gets hard to self-asses no matter how much your team feeds.

If it gets that bad, then don't worry about those segments of the game. If there was actually nothing you could have done, then poof, gone.

Statistically speaking, for every game YOU have immense feeders, there should be a game AGAINST immense feeders. However, statistically speaking, there will be outliers who get more of one than the other. Maybe you just got the short end of the stick and got fucked. But that doesn't affect your ability to self-assess your play, it only affects your ability to climb.

The only thing feeding teammates will cause that makes self-assessment not possible is TILT. Some are more prone to it than others. I am super prone to tilt, and I know I am tilted when I go into a COMPLETELY even game and start thinking only about "I can't do X because we will just die" rather than planning wards / paths and the likes.

StephenizgodJan 11, 20172 votes

It affects my assessment of my decisions.

"Would going for that Baron have been a good call or not", "should I have kept split pushing or grouped", "should I have TP'd bot or was that a mistake?"

I will never know because my team never came to Baron or perhaps came far too late, maybe I should have grouped if I knew my team was going to engage without me, perhaps if my Bot lane reacted or wasn't bad me TPing into Bot lane could have turned the game in our favor instead of us all dying and me losing my turret. It is hard to tell or it is hard to make judgement calls when your team doesn't understand basic game strategies or even how to use their champions. I mean if my team was good, maybe those decisions would have been right, maybe they would have been still the wrong choice? I just can't tell. It is hard to improve my decision making skills in these situations.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20172 votes

I mean if my team was good, maybe those decisions would have been right, maybe they would have been still the wrong choice? I just can't tell. It is hard to improve my decision making skills in these situations.

You can't look at it through the lens of "when would that have been the right choice"

And even if you can't know what the correct choice was, knowing that you made a poor choice is important. In similar situations in the future, you can remember what happened last time, and factor than in to future decision making.

The quote I placed above can easily be seen as: "I mean if the circumstances were different, maybe my choices would have been right. maybe they would have still been the wrong choice?"

Looking at the "what if X was different" is pointless, since you made the choices based on a specific, unchangeable X. No point speculating the impact of Y if the equation no longer exists.

EXAMPLE: I teleported down to gank botlane, but we got killed when the enemy jungler counterganked.

Incorrect assessment: "Well I never get botlanes that ward, so teleport ganking is pointless, since I can just get counterganked without any way of knowing it is happening."

Proper assessment: "Well, when I teleported down, we had no vision of the jungler. I don't know why botlane didn't ward, but in the future, maybe I should try to look for the enemy jungler on the minimap before ganking, and if I don't see them, I may well get counterganked. Possibly best to hold off on my TP if i could get counterganked. Maybe I should focus on tracking the enemy jungler, in the meantime, I can just use teleport to countergank."

StephenizgodJan 11, 20171 votes

I don't mean to come off as confrontational but that is wrong. Its not necessarily the "wrong choice" it could have been the possible "best choice" but I don't know because my team didn't do anything or listen.

I can't learn from that because honestly if i can say "if my team reacted to my Teleport, we possibly could have changed that" what can I learn from them not reacting other than "don't use TP bot lane while in low ELO"... It is not always the case, sometimes they react and sometimes they don't react, regardless of whether we are successful, the issue is the inconsistency with my teammates reactions or decisions. I can't say "oh i bet these guys won't be very cooperative so I should just not make calls and do my own thing" because sometimes they follow through and sometimes they don't.

Your examples are too specific, i can go through 1000 what ifs to make a situation go my way or not. It doesn't get me anywhere, the bottom line is this, sometimes my teammates will react properly and sometimes they don't. I can't always tell whether I am making the correct decisions because the "skill" level of my teammates is often inconsistent. Meaning what would have been the correct decision is either null and void because they didn't react or the wrong choice because their "lack of skill" caused it to go negatively.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20172 votes

idk man getting counterganked is a pretty general and common scenario.

I teleported down to gank botlane, but we got killed when the enemy jungler counterganked.

Feel like that is pretty general, can happen literally any game has no champion reliance, all that is required is that ONE champ in the game have tele and that the meta as far as 1-1-2-J is followed

Also, LoL has many variables. Assumed risk is a thing when making a play with other people. No matter what ELO, challenger to bronze, there is a chance that other people wont be on the same page as you. If you tele in, but trundle supp had already used pillar and it was on CD (or something else with a diff champ idgaf rly) then they might not be in a position to follow up if the enemy has more CD available.

StephenizgodJan 11, 20171 votes

Again man you are getting too specific, I am not talking specific situations. I never mentioned getting counter-ganked or the enemy jungler. I am talking me teleporting bot lane and my bot lane not reacting at all leaving me in a 1v2. Not every TP bot lane is going to be a good idea, but the issue is I can't tell if that time the TP was bad or good or if my team was just bad. I am not talking counter-ganking or enemy jungler hiding in the lane or the mid laner roaming. That is too specific and gets us nowhere because I can create specific situations to make my point correct and you can do the same for your point.

Yes but the difference between Bronze-Silver and Plat+ right? I mean you tp bot lane, there is a larger chance in Bronze or Silver they won't do anything and watch you die and you can' tell if it was you making a mistake or them. In Plat+ people generally react to these kinds of plays, if they don't react you can assume it was probably you making a bad teleport.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20172 votes

I think you are trying to analyze the wrong parts of my comments.

My example of the countergank served no purpose other than being something to analyze.

I don't get what the issue you have is, unless you are trying to say that there is absolutely nothing worth analyzing in any of your games.

MonkeyMadnessJan 11, 20171 votes

Uh oh, Holier than Thou bronze/silver player here that clearly understand what "competitive" means way better than people who are actually playing at a competitive level. Here's the truth of the matter: if you are not playing to win, you are actively ruining the game for 9 other players (the 5 people that are getting a free win might thank you initially, but promoting on a shit game rings pretty damn hollow). Obviously you will not win every game, that's unrealistic. You should never EXPECT to win every game, but you should TRY to win every game. Failure to do so is the very definition of trolling, and until Riot realizes this, players like me and OP will never be happy, and this resentment will only lead to increasingly worse levels of toxicity.

Shin GoukiJan 11, 20175 votes

Just dodged a ranked game with a zed adc with no experience on Zed that claimed to be "trying" to win. Thank god for dodging.

MonkeyMadnessJan 11, 20172 votes

But you can only do this so many times before you get slapped with a noticeable LP loss and substantial queue dodge penalty. Vote to disband needs to be a thing, also Riot most decidedly has the resources to have a "call a moderator" button in order to resolve dispute regarding active and passive trolling in game.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20173 votes

lmao they are asking for a babysitter for their computer time

MonkeyMadnessJan 19, 20171 votes

What are you even saying?

Spaceman5pffJan 19, 20171 votes

a "call a moderator" button

Sounds like on-demand-babysitter to me

MonkeyMadnessJan 19, 20171 votes

Lol so many other games have functions like this because they actually care to catch people in the act instead of simply relying on a trash bot to "gather data" on them.

Spaceman5pffJan 19, 20171 votes

What? Like Wizards 101 or Disney's VMK? Club Penguin?

MonkeyMadnessJan 20, 20171 votes

More importantly, Riot most certainly has the resources to do this, they just don't want to because they are content with their warped world view.

Spaceman5pffJan 21, 20171 votes

I think it is because their game rating of T means that the audience should be of a certain age where their computer time isn't babysat.

MonkeyMadnessJan 22, 20171 votes

They by this logic anyone under the age of 13 should be strictly barred from playing the game. Seeing as how this is not possible, my argument stands. Also, ESRB rating system very clearly states that ratings do NOT apply to online play sooo ya.

MonkeyMadnessJan 31, 20171 votes

You clearly didn't read. I'm not suggesting that moderators be present in every single game. Rather, when a player is trolling, have an option to call a moderator, and if a majority of players in the game also call a moderator, one will be appointed to watch the remainder of the game to catch such behavior as int feed by "split pushing" or such other nonsense that is otherwise impossible to prove. This "call moderator" button, if you will, will of course need to be private and NOT done via vote. Would be the exact same thing as the report function, only difference is that it is in game.

Edit: only the leader of a premade will be able to use this function to avoid abuse, and a premade of 4 with a solo player would not have this option at all. I suppose a solo player unfortunate enough to get matched with a toxic 4 stack would also be barred from this option for the same reasons.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20172 votes

Yes because low plat is ssssooooooooooo competitive.

get off your high horse kiddo.

MonkeyMadnessJan 19, 20171 votes

Much more so than bronze, hence my statement is 100% valid.

Spaceman5pffJan 19, 20171 votes

If I can queue with Plat players and not be crushed by the MMR differential, then the disparity is not as large as you want it to be.

MonkeyMadnessJan 20, 20171 votes

That simply means you belong in plat or perhaps high gold. Also, keep in mind that a lot of "plat" players are actually just boosted animals.

Spaceman5pffJan 21, 20171 votes

And that is exactly why Plat isn't competitive.

Nobody gets boosted into bronze, everyone that is there is there for a good reason, save a few smurfs here and there but that exists in plat as well.

MonkeyMadnessJan 22, 20171 votes

By this logic, challenger is also not competitive, because there is at least one player boosted to challenger.

Spaceman5pffJan 22, 20171 votes

I would say that all of SoloQ is not competitive in the most literal sense.

Even Ranked 5's were hardly competitive. The inconsistencies in skill / motivation are too high, seemingly across the board. Autofill is not helping this.

So I would say that no ELO is truly competitive.

MonkeyMadnessJan 31, 20171 votes

You need to learn what the word "competitive" means. Competitive simply means that there is competition. All ranks, bronze through challenger are equally competitive by design. The only difference is how seriously people take each rank, making the people who "only play ranked for fun" the source of most of the issues.

YormaughmJan 11, 20176 votes

You're absolutely right, and I should state that I agree with the OP completely.

But you are also missing a nuance here, which I feel lots of people need explained.

Except in EXTREMELY rare cases, I don't think that anyone readies up for a League match without the intention to win the game they just queued for. Now, factors within can make them change their mind/attitude, but at the start, everyone is trying to win.

Everything you said is true, but the problem is that you (or if not you, others who would echo your point) assume you know when someone else is "not trying to win." Honestly except in cases of completely obvious intentional feeding/afking you truly don't know that.

The error is when people think they do, which happens waaaaay too much. Losing your lane or having a poor game does not equal "not trying to win." But in almost every game I've ever played that has resulted in a loss, at least one person has decided that whoever did have that bad game "wasn't trying" and openly blamed them. This is bullshit, and it never helps you actually win, only encourages your team to focus one something entirely different from actually playing the game. I should state that because I agree with the "if you aren't trying don't play ranked" I DON'T PLAY RANKED yet people get blamed for "not trying" in almost every loss I've ever been a part of.

My argument is that the one doing the blaming is the real one "not trying." You can't type and play your character at the same time after all...unless you're dead.

Example: I've had bad games, sometimes my fault, sometimes not, I'll occasionally be the one to start the surrender vote BUT if it's voted down I never stop playing or start feeding on purpose. People often complain when this happens, "OMG just surrender" or have already said (pre 20 minutes) "surrender at 20." These players have already given up, they're the ones who aren't trying - yet I'm willing to bet, they're the absolute FIRST people to blame a loss on their teammates for "not trying."

If you think about it for a second this is the bullshit "but they did it first" excuse that doesn't fly in reality. Player A wants to surrender because Player A believes Players B and C "aren't trying." Player A starts a surrender vote, which loses, and officially puts more effort into blaming Players B and C for an impending loss and less effort into playing the game because "if they don't have to try then I don't have to either." Meanwhile, Players B and C are still playing the game, even if not very successfully. Who is the one who's not trying in this scenario? Hint: It's the one not expending effort trying to accomplish team objectives. One of the reasons I personally can't stomach ranked is because of how absolutely unpalatable I find that kind of player, which I expect to be 10x more present in ranked than normals (and there seems to be at least one in every normal game anyway.)

The flips side of this is someone who votes to surrender hasn't actually surrendered if they keep playing. I've been a part of many games where I voted to surrender or even started the vote, and we won because nobody, including myself, actually quit trying, which is what this is about; effort. Fact is, it's pretty much impossible for someone to determine how much effort a totally unknown stranger is putting into something based on 20 ~ 30 minutes of gameplay.

You simply can't accurately determine how much effort someone else is putting in simply because they're having a bad game, or doing things that you feel you wouldn't do in their situation. You might have every right to feel that they're not a skilled player or that you're superior to them at League of Legends, but, barring extremely obvious situations I've already mentioned, you have no idea whether or not they're "trying" and therefore no right to accuse them of not doing so. There's a difference between "not trying" and "not winning" and based on what I've seen, the majority of people don't know that.

Like where's the equation in life that says amount of effort is directly proportional to amount of success? Sure it's a factor, but not a guarantee or a promise, people really need to learn that failure is still possible, sometimes even when you're trying really hard. That's life, don't blame your teammates, blame RNG.

Spaceman5pffJan 11, 20172 votes

To be fair, often they DO stop trying.

Telltale signs of this are: Trinkets / sightstones never on CD / empty (this is my #1 sign). only farming and never taking fights alone or grouped, even if they have a distinct advantage. Crucial summoner spells not being used ( summoner 12 summoner 3 ) etc...

Best course of action is to not call them out on it, since usually these people are one prod away from INT feeding.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJan 10, 201715 votes

not caring if you win or lose and not trying to win is tooo different things

they can be hand and hand but not necessarily

just as i never care if i win or lose... but i always play to win but if i lose i dont get made or upset i just move along to the next game

sounds like you let it gets to you too much... which causes TILT

FastAsHeckJan 11, 201713 votes

yeah sorry but Draft is gone and I ain't playing blind

Bronze BonanzaJan 10, 20178 votes

If somebody doesn't care about winning or losing and doesn't tryhard in their games, their elo will reflect that.

I'll tell you one thing. Getting that guy in your match who whines all game about how you aren't trying hard enough for him, really doesn't make anyone want to play harder.

YormaughmJan 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze Bonanza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4qhzNLIn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-10T21:57:33.024+0000)

I'll tell you one thing. Getting that guy in your match who whines all game about how you aren't trying hard enough for him, really doesn't make anyone want to play harder.

Bingo.

It floors me that about half the people who play this game (conservative estimate) seemingly don't know this. And I ONLY play Normals because I completely agree with the OP's opinion about ranked and it's STILL this toxic.

People need to stop thinking the world revolves around them, and that they have the right to outright issue commands to everyone around them, especially when they're doing something that requires teamwork.

Surr20plzJan 11, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze Bonanza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4qhzNLIn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-10T21:57:33.024+0000)

If somebody doesn't care about winning or losing and doesn't tryhard in their games, their elo will reflect that.

I'll tell you one thing. Getting that guy in your match who whines all game about how you aren't trying hard enough for him, really doesn't make anyone want to play harder.

THIS!

This is the endgame to any discussion on this subject.

In fact talking shit to people let's them know they can get to you.

IT IS VERY HARD TO RESIST FUCKING WITH YOU WHEN YOU WHINE ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

Like I have to resist throwing the game just to see how mad you'll get because seeing you angry sends my sides into orbit.

MonkeyMadnessJan 11, 20174 votes

I have gotten banned for telling people literally this in game.

Take my upvote, but honestly, if winning ranked DOES matter to you, don't play League of Legends. Riot has turned this game into a casual cesspool in the worst way. Competitive players that display their competitiveness are so easily targeted by both the ban bot and by trolls who know that they can provoke "toxic" responses from people like us.

Surr20plzJan 11, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I have gotten banned for telling people literally this in game.

Take my upvote, but honestly, if winning ranked DOES matter to you, don't play League of Legends. Riot has turned this game into a casual cesspool in the worst way. Competitive players that display their competitiveness are so easily targeted by both the ban bot and by trolls who know that they can provoke "toxic" responses from people like us.

Just accept those losses and move on. I know it's frustrating as balls, but calling out the shit lords doesn't make them play better.

I asked our 1-6 Miss Fortune to please stop split pushing, and got a "please tell me how to play more!" asinine response and he continued to split push.

If this was in person I would've jumped up from the desk and jack knife power bombed them down a stair well, but since it's online there is nothing we can do my friend. Just move on.

The only way to get these bonobos to do anything is to ask in a positive manner. I don't mean be nice (cause seriously fuck you fucking little monkies I want to kill you irl), I mean instead of asking someone to stop doing something ask them to do something else. Like I should've said "MF let's group please".

MonkeyMadnessJan 11, 20174 votes

Never even heard of "shit lord" before, I think you just moved up the timeline on my permaban by enriching my vocabulary...

And that's good for you that you can make the instantaneous decision to not fight back against this kind of toxicity. Being a very intense and competitive person that takes whatever it is that I'm investing time and effort in very seriously regardless of real-world impact, I cannot do this, and my very personality is highly discriminated against by Riot Games to the point where I am legitimately made to feel unwelcome in a game that has been like my home for literally 5 years. According to Riot, calling someone a "shit lord" is somehow worse than actual offenses like actively and intentionally ruining the game for others either via trolling or the holding the game hostage by not grouping up, threatening troll picks in order to force people to give up their role, etc.

Surr20plzJan 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Never even heard of "shit lord" before, I think you just moved up the timeline on my permaban by enriching my vocabulary...

haha XD

I'm just saying there's no point in even talking to these "people". You won't get the desired result of your communicating with them, you'll just get banned.

MonkeyMadnessJan 19, 20172 votes

I know that, but it's a psychological thing. Taking it up the ass from these people just fkin sucks, and it leaves you feeling either incredibly defeated or incredibly pissed (for me, usually the latter). The ability to vent a bit goes a long way to preserving one's sanity, and actually has no negative impact on the innocent bystanders (the game is almost certainly ruined for them anyways). For a company that brags about all the psychology Ph.Ds they hire for the behavioral unit, they seem to forget that there actually is psychology behind a lot of this...

YormaughmJan 11, 20173 votes

If your ADC is already useless and 1/6 like you said. How does them being present in a teamfight help you win?

Serious question.

They're behind on items, do no damage (MF's ult in this situation would be useless) if they're the ADC they have no defense and if they've been shit on all game they'll get insta-deleted in a team fight. MF can max her W and if left alone melt a turret in seconds, even early and with few items. Why is it more valuable to have a 1/6 underpowered player grouped with the team, than it is for them to be split pushing and/or being a distraction for the other team?

They're so far behind and worth so little gold it doesn't matter if they die. At this point, I'd think it's more worthwhile for them to run interference and try to take solo objectives because in a team fight they're useless and if they do get kills it will just make them worth more gold while still being too far behind to matter.

Only time I could see grouping mattering for the person this far behind is if you're doing dragon/baron or just won a teamfight without that person and are actively pushing an objective. Otherwise them being alone by themselves seems like a better way to win the game than hoping they suddenly stop sucking and string a bunch of kills together. The enemy team at least has to decide whether they send someone out to 1 v 1 them (making the resulting 4 v 4 more fair) or they can choose to ignore them and perhaps lose an objective or two.

Now, if they're an AP champ and are this far behind, the can't effectively push objectives, and should be grouping cause they really are pretty much useless otherwise. AD champs though, can always threaten the other teams lanes and structures, even when they're having a terrible game.

FailogJan 11, 20173 votes

Well, thats because Marc Merrill is a world class piece of shit human being

DanjengJan 11, 20174 votes

If losing normals doesn't matter to me, should I play ranked? That's the real question.

LEEROY KLEDKINSJan 11, 20174 votes

I don't see much of a point in ranked in this current season I was going to take ranked seriously since its been my least played mode.

But the autofill feature has made both ranked and normal draft mode so fucking unplayable because of salty players raging and taking a match hostage because they didn't get the role they wanted.

Glad I'm a support main but some reason i'm not autofill protected so I will get thrown into mid which is my least played role ever :( with adc coming 2nd to.

Glad that in some of the few ranked games that me and the rest of the team can carry a few matches but i dont want to risk bumping into a raging player who wants to sabotage my games in ranked just because they didn't get the role they wanted.

Also In elos bronze to diamond it really pains me to see people who blame others when allies make mistakes or they know something is going on and they have to attend to another objective or must retreat due to low hp and dont want to risk auto attacking in some states.

In normals there are lil more chilled players than there are in ranked of course and it can be annoying try to be a white knight to my team in every game trying to encourage them to improve or dont feel bad about kda when you can cs like a god for example.

Chamuel85Jan 10, 20173 votes

If winning is so important to you, don't play a game. Play a sport.