These jungle nerfs...

B3ER·2/25/2015, 11:31:11 AM·73 votes·5,178 views

You know Riot, I was experimenting with different jungle champions. I was trying to find a way to improve the jungle diversity and the switching of Smite enchants was what made it possible. Now that's gone, we're back to square one. I understand the nerf on Smite range, but that also translates into less gold for the jungler as ganks have a higher chance of failing.

Patch after patch you've been reducing reward in the jungle and reducing the success factors for junglers:

  • Vision keeps getting cheaper due to trinkets.
  • Jungle sustain is hard for all junglers without decent sustain.
  • Level 2 ganks are nigh impossible now save for a few champions.
  • Supports have the ability to come kill you in your first clear!!!! I'm seeing this happen more and more now.
  • Low amounts of gold, XP and combat stats make it that you can't stand up to solo laners at all.
  • Ganks are less successful now with the Smite range nerf.
  • Play pattern versatility is gone now due to Smite enchant switch costs.

Tell me, Riot Fearless. Are you really sure you're not biased against junglers? Didn't your balance team confirm that the jungle is still lacking? Didn't Ghostcrawler mention in that little patch preview video that the jungle is weak and that there are hardly any jungle mains in the top 10 challenger spots? Didn't he mention that Riot wants 4 jungle styles as opposed to the 1.5 that are currently possible?

Why are all these changes making the listed problems worse? Why is there no compensation what so ever for any of the nerfs in this patch? Why must you make me hate playing this game more and more, patch after patch?

Yeah, I'm salty.

46 Comments

PapaGreg212/25/2015, 2:23:30 PM27 votes

[deleted]

shadecrapper2/25/2015, 12:21:55 PM5 votes

They said they dont want lvl 2 ganks. I feel you man. It seems like they dont care much about new junglers either, Ive created a new account and watching these guys go in there... A lot of executions.

Death Knight 7772/25/2015, 8:30:23 PM3 votes

Potato.

Knight SoIaire 2/25/2015, 10:56:34 PM2 votes

there is that and there is the fact that jungler can literaly decide the game by himself and carry a team on his back

ofc i hate the jungle now, but lets face it, this role is op ou get to just roam around the map constantly ramping your gold up, and everytime opportunity arises you can capitalize on it to increase the gain and give some to your teammates

Linna Excel2/25/2015, 6:26:28 PM2 votes

I think riot either hates junglers or is completely clueless about what to do with it and unwilling to revert it back to the last season.

Jungle Lux God2/25/2015, 4:59:27 PM2 votes

As much as I liked play pattern versatility, I think the reason that they changed it was because you would basically just buy your early jungle item, and then get a free switch to your late-game jungle item. It reduced a lot of the choice and risk in your jungle items.

I can understand why they did it, but there are big problems in the jungle that also need to be fixed.

Zazusha2/26/2015, 1:42:06 AM2 votes

they need to bring back the Spirit Line of Jungle items. (not flare, busted piece of shit)

GundayMonday2/25/2015, 6:16:38 PM2 votes

Wish I had more upvotes for you.

Every patch is one more "Fuck you" from Riot to junglers. I love jungling. But the fun is being drained from the game with each subsequent nerf to my favorite role.

@Rito - Why you hate us junglers so much?

tsLy0yUkrB2/26/2015, 8:42:19 AM1 votes

I'm so mad. I think Riot needs to change that summoner spell! Exhaust! 1 for the adc, 1 for the jungler (he can summoner slow and damage now!), and that mid lane ganker for his CC! But I don't want charge stacks, I just want unlimited charges for the entire game. Not fair jungle can smite me halfway across a lane, then get get cc'ed after I flash from the mid laner and die, all while taking damage from ADC. I need to be able to protect myself. I HATE being so squishy and targeted all the time.

Honestly the 5.4 jungle changes have been amazing. Lets go back a second. Before this patch or 2 or whatever. Smite can attack monsters AND champions? Damage and SLOW? And stack? I'm sorry, you now have to ACTUALLY be IN A FIGHT, rather than smite halfway across a damn lane. Less gold for junglers? Wow. You have plenty of options for that, with all of your custom items. How many items, different builds? Don't even bother to count. Honestly, it comes down to play style. You want to stay in jungle and farm till level 4 or 6, that's your choice. Get a gank level 2 instead of grabbing another mob and backing? Also your choice. Try this. Play a support. Sit in lane with an item that gives a couple gold every enemy minion death, harassing (that takes mana btw, pew pew autos are laughable,) then go back to base with 900 gold or less gold. Every support in the world, as great as they can be, aren't LCS players. ALSO, the ADCs that we play with, are always like 50-50 good or bad (don't forget the rest of the randoms that are 50-50 good or bad! ). We literally have 3 options at the beginning of the game, to SINK our gold into THROUGHOUT the game, cause we usually only end up with 3-4 (out of 6) full item builds. 1 is a sightstone. Every support champ, you basically have to choose between 2 of 3 items to start. Now if you have played the game, you know you really have 1 out of 3, whether you're tank or ranged, for most champs. Junglers have the options for 4 items, plus enchantments. Most junglers work best going a certain build, but breaking the meta can be awesome.

Not to mention you have plenty of other options, such as your choice for runes and masteries. Going full damage, not as good as some lifesteal runes. As support, you kinda have to utility/offense, or utility defense. Support HAS to be a team player, ALL the time. Take those hits, take those ults, die. But Junglers, they are the loner. They are the guy that always signals at the most inconvenient time for the lane, or just wanders in, looking for gold for their "bad" items. How many games have you played as a jungle, lost. Thought to yourself, if only I had my last item for full build. Try playing support, with half the gold. Best part is, there are 3 items, with 3 actives. 1 sucks. 2 are awesome. However, having 1 active item that last 3 seconds out of 3 or 4 total items, compared to the usual 5 or 6, worthless.

What riot needs to do is fix support items. The miracle was amazing. You sacrificed flash for heal/clarity. Ancient coin should give gold based of minion gold, not 3 gold for a cannon minion. Charges for targons should respawn faster, with chance of healing every other charge, charges do not charge during death or time in base. Or ALLOW supports to enchant their items with defense. We are sinking our gold into aren't we? Give us a 15 armor or 20 MR enchant for 250/375 gold respectively.

Oh, and I think the double ward from totem is dumb.

KING OF MASKS2/25/2015, 6:44:29 PM1 votes

I sympathize heavily, but at the same time I'm extraordinarily happy that I never picked up jungle as a role in all my time spent playing this game. Godspeed to those who do brave the dark forest. You are the true heroes. Except if you play Nidalee jungle, then fuck you.

Mandang02/25/2015, 8:27:43 PM1 votes

I don't really understand the confusion over the smite nerf - it's being nerfed for chilling smite because giving every jungle a long-range slow is a pretty egregious example of power creep. ...but then people complain that the other smites are being nerfed needlessly - really? Are you actually feeling the nerf on the other smites?

aaronconlin2/25/2015, 10:22:59 PM1 votes

I'm going to try my hardest to make Bard work in the jungle. His free experience for roaming might put him at the same level as laners

Gafugarion2/25/2015, 10:45:53 PM1 votes

Honestly the only reason I always pick up Chilling Smite is because its the only smite that you know... Isn't worthless. Hatchet was good for the cd reduction on smite but that was gutted. Skirmisher was good but top laners were picking it up so it was gutted. Poacher was never good at any point in its development but this was ignored so there was only one incredibly obvious choice for all jungles to take. And its been nerfed 2-3 times but is STILL better than all other options. Its sad. Buff the other options for jungle diversity.

Oddysseas2/25/2015, 11:02:19 PM1 votes

Well they made Hunter's machete more expensive and it SUCK ballz, i used to get pantheon, buy 4 potions get the first camp using one potion, second camp using another, third camp using another and then use the last one get almost all my hp back , i was lvl3 bu then, gank bot lane get double kill and gg, now i have to recall at second camp, only being lvl 2, walk all the way back kill another camp for lvl 3 and by the time i am done they bot lane is lvl4 and i can no longer gank them, this is redicilous, seems like riot is trying to make stuff more and more automated and less jungle dependent..... :(

Arkna2/25/2015, 11:05:16 PM1 votes

The free switch may have lead to everyone just swapping to chilling smite before they finished their jungle item, but it's still better than the alternative of junglers that require pink smite for their first couple of clears being stuck with it all game or being gold taxed in a low income role.

And I seriously question the design decision to include chilling smite. Did you really not think the smite that's also a targeted slow wouldn't outclass all of the others by a huge margin? Farming the jungle hasn't been a good option in a long time, so the only draw of blasting smite is champions who need it to clear or those who want to be healthy for ganks, but chilling smite is still better for ganks so you're better off picking a jungler who doesn't need the sustain from blasting smite. Dedicated counterjungling is a high risk/low reward choice, so scavenging smite is probably the weakest choice of all of them. Then we round it out with challenging smite, which seems to be best for squishier auto attack reliant junglers, who suffer from being farm reliant in a low income role and better off picking up chilling smite so they can get gold ganking instead.

OperationDEEZ12/26/2015, 2:49:20 AM1 votes

Why do I feel like duo top will become a thing for pre-20/30s since jungling is nigh impossible without proper runes and masteries.

DudeWhatTheFuk2/25/2015, 10:55:24 PM

i dont know whats wrong with ppl hatting on jungle its fun easy faster i go though jungle 2 times really fast and ganking is more fun with the different smits the items are awesome i like it and it doesn't matter what jungle champ i use its the same so ......whats up??? item 3709 Nunu