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Wanna make Ruby Sightstone a valuable pickup?

B3ER·9/9/2015, 12:31:11 PM·45 votes·3,500 views
http://i.imgur.com/zRFRbfr.jpg

It's rather simple: give it the increased ward cast range mechanic that Feral Flare used to have.

Reasoning: Gives the low item support some safety in placing risky wards (Dragon/Baron dance, deep wards). This way that support runs less risk of getting bursted as we see all the time in games, even a few times in competitive. We've all experienced the "I just wanted to ward. T_T"

Discussion points:

  1. While a powerful addition, it could become a must-have as much as the standard Sightstone is on supports. This means that supports will have to invest another 800 Gold for the upgrade which pushes them further away from their power items. Can the game afford that?
  2. Will this facilitate support snowballing? How much of an advantage does the first support to Ruby Sightstone have?
  3. How does this the affect teams with Sightstone junglers? Will a large amount of safe wards become oppressive in the vision game?

Have fun talking about it.

EDIT: Hahahah! I haven't bought Ruby Sightstone in such a long time, I thought the upgrade cost was 600. It is 800.

54 Comments

Demacry9/9/2015, 5:40:14 PM4 votes

I'd rather see the 2-minute regeneration applied to it. That'd give it some purpose to being purchased before full build. There are a lot of times in a slower mid game where I only get a couple hundred gold over the course of 10 minutes. Not really enough to buy anything and we aren't fighting so I'm still healthy with mana and cooldowns; there's no reason to go back other than I have to refresh my sightstone. A lot of times I'll be the main source of disengage for my team and when I'm not defending the outers the enemy team takes that opportunity to push/dive.

Getting an additional ward every 2 minutes would give players an option for a more sustained vision battle.

All Day Tay Tay9/9/2015, 9:39:04 PM3 votes

i would say a slightly smaller increase range, but i think thats a good idea. the range on feral flare was stupid high

FTMHukY4Ps9/9/2015, 12:46:42 PM3 votes

It'd be surprising to see someone actually get ruby and not have it be their last item completed so they can say they got full build. In all honesty a cast range buff like that for wards won't make a massive shift in play. You just can pop a ward on that tri without subjecting yourself to a 5 man out of nowhere (Not that that should ever happen, skillshots exist for a multitude of reasons)

Snowballing? No way. It's ward range and a bit more health. Honestly I hate the base tank support build as it is. Let me just stack more health for that fotm Vayne to burn through.

Junglers that built sightstone might have some trouble getting used to the change. I can imagine Lee Sins failing ward jumps cause they underestimated RSS's range. But I have a feeling everyone would love it except for jungle mains who don't know how to get a sweeper and fake out the enemy by clearing the ward and leaving, then popping back in after they push back.

Partholonian9/9/2015, 10:10:17 PM3 votes

Wanna make Ruby Sightstone a valuable pickup?

No, I don't, for exactly the reason you describe in your point 1. Except it's actually another 800 gold. Ruby Sightstone will never be good, and that's not bad. Because there can be a damn fine line between good and mandatory.

I'd rather delete sightstone and all forms of "sacrifice gold from one player, receive vision for whole team", and double down on alternative resource/opportunity costs like trinkets as the basis of the vision system. The amount of vision any one player can provide should be limited, but not by gold, because it clashes with gold's primary role, making you better at doing the things your champion does.

In a non-gold-based vision system, everyone gets the same opportunity -- and responsibility -- and supports can focus more on actually supporting -- buffs, debuffs, heals, CC that sets up ganks, picks or escapes, and those unique pure-utility skills like Dark Passage and Magical Journey. Nobody admires Madlife for his ward placement. (I'm sure it's quite solid, actually, but still.)

Vision bot is not a role, it's a burden that afflicts a role.

Zac x Me9/9/2015, 3:58:41 PM2 votes

It should require a gold income item or just any of the most generic support picked items for it to have the increased range though (like jungler items requiring you to have smite), or else other roles may abuse it. YES THAT'S RIGHT, SUPPORTS ACTUALLY DESERVE A UNIQUE ITEM ONLY THEY CAN BUY.

Or what would also work, increase Ruby's health bonus to 500 or 600.

BuzzinTate9/10/2015, 1:28:07 PM2 votes

Make it's wards have 5 health like pink wards and give less gold when killed off. That should make everyone buy one. Also increase the health to 600

Xienwolf9/9/2015, 5:26:09 PM2 votes

An elegant move, and simple. I could see Riot going crazy with a range of sight options similar to the range of jungle item options. But that could quickly get out of hand (Though having wards which can move between two points, or that explode when revealed, or with smaller sight range and infecting enemies with "Spotted" status would be cool options)

HayRoss9/10/2015, 12:22:20 AM1 votes

I'm sorry, I haven't played this game for too long. What was the feral flare and why was it so OP?

UPfreely9/10/2015, 12:40:08 AM1 votes

sometimes as a support, I just wish i could buy normal items because i want what they do.

Zone of Endless9/10/2015, 2:18:29 AM1 votes

I don't like it. Make warding too safe.

Warding needs to have a risk for the potential rewards it may have. Vision is one of the more powerful thing in the game that can change the game so if someone with sightstone want to place 3 deep wards in the jungle then they are gonna take risk doing that.

Giving that much range on sightstone, even upgraded, remove all risks and essentially turning it into a scrying orb with limited range but giving visions for 3 minutes. So imagine being in bot lane or being a jgler ganking bot lank through tri-brush. If the enemy want to place a ward they have to get close and risk themselves, but with the new change they just place it through lane without worry. It just turn the game into a super boring farm fest because it's so safe to place wards in key positions that will let you know where the enemy is.

Gnart Even Close9/10/2015, 8:21:36 PM1 votes

So supports wouldn't have to buy it so early, maybe require level 9 to upgrade like trinkets? Having a larger cast range and regenerating wards would be awesome though. Again, this could easily be abused by junglers, or even toplaners if it became too strong. And for anyone who suggests to upgrade the health on this item, that is a terrible idea for obvious reasons. Another way to limit this item is to lower the cost but tie it specifically to the summoner spell exhaust. This would force junglers who want to use Sightstone to take Exhaust instead of Flash, which would be a huge tradeoff. This would also allow supports to invest more gold elsewhere. Maybe Sightstone could cost 600 gold, and Ruby Sightstone could cost 1200 gold? They would still be very gold inefficient (66.7%, not factoring the cost of wards placed), keeping them mostly balanced.

Zero Engine9/11/2015, 3:55:20 AM1 votes

[deleted]

JustMyBassCannon9/11/2015, 3:57:07 AM1 votes

Or they could make Sightstone have upgrade paths that make it worth taking on non-supports, without being worth too much.

M4nTiCoR39/11/2015, 4:12:56 AM1 votes

Ruby sight stone should be removed from the game, and the wards should instead be added to the support items every support is already forced to buy. Two wards at tier 2...three at tier 3. This frees up some gold to buy whatever we need instead of being forced to buy HP and a ward bank...on top of the item we already have to buy just to be gold revelant. Not sure how to deal with active and wards being bound to same item slot...but it needs to happen non the less.

Arkantasa9/11/2015, 2:28:13 PM1 votes

I honestly think Ruby Sight Stone is the shittiest thing ever in this game lol. I never get it. By the time I have enough gold to get it, the game is almost over and it's honestly pointless. I just grab another crazy item like Luden's or Thornmail or whatever based on the support I play, and just get a Greater Stealth Totem to compensate for the sightstone. Usually I don't even get as far as completing my Ruby Sight Stone so there's really no point........ >_________>

However, it would be a great idea to give the SIGHTSTONE itself, a boost in its range of placing wards. Only on supports tho. Because if lee sin could do that too, it'd be shitty. Or kat.

ninjaIRL 9/12/2015, 6:19:59 PM1 votes

I'd like to offer an alternative, albeit a more complicated buff. I'd rather modify Ruby so that it is more impactful/useful in the transition from early to mid-game but also having some usefulness for the late game while not being overly powerful. The range buff seems like a simple and effective idea but more interesting ideas could be placed.

I suggest a further upgrade for the tier 3 trinkets. Since trinkets are important for supports - however I stress that I don't want Sightstone to be pigeon-hold as a support item only (like jungle items) - the changes below allow for more flexible trinket choice for the support who usually has to buy the Oracle's Lens most of the time. Lee Sin is a Sightstone using champion that would need to be taken into account as well when talking about this item.

Ruby Sightstone UNIQUE Passive: (The strikethrough words/numbers/durations are original tier 3 trinket features.)

  • Oracle's Lens Active: Summons a drone at the target location for six eight seconds (600 range). The drone reveals and disables all invisible traps and wards within an 600-unit radius. (75 second cooldown). Additionally, your champion gains true sight for 10 seconds and increased true sight range. (50 range)

  • Farsight Orb Active: Reveals an area up to 4000 units away for 23 seconds (9080 second cooldown). Enemy champions hit will be revealed for 5 seconds. This does not affect stealth champions. Also places a visible ward in the area that lasts 60 seconds. This ward warns (exclamation mark) when invisible units are near this ward (600 range [does not reveal invisible units]).

  • Greater Stealth Totem Places a Stealth Ward that lasts 180 seconds (60 second cooldown). Store a charge every 60 seconds, up to 23 total. Increase ward limit from 3 to 5.

  • Greater Vision Totem Active: Places a Vision Ward that has infinite duration. (120 second cooldown). Limit 1 Vision Ward on the map per player. Passive: This vision ward from this player will consume Sight Wards, from the same player, placed on the Vision Ward increasing its maximum health bars by one and its vision range by 15 per Sight Ward sacrificed for 6 minutes. Any damage the vision ward takes after the effect ends is still applied i.e. A six health max Vision ward that has been hit 5 times by will disappear as soon as the 6 minutes subsequent sacrifices refresh the duration of the effect.

Basically it makes other trinkets more attractive to the support player because the other trinkets can offer stronger true vision coverage. Depending on the situation. Let me know what you think. Is it too gimmicky to be useful?

Lord Boltrix9/9/2015, 1:10:04 PM1 votes

I think there should be more to it than that.

How about this?

Sightstone increase the range of placing down wards, and it can upgrade a pre-existing ward into a Vision Ward, consuming a charge in the process? That becomes a Vision ward for the person who originally put the ward down. This would encourage more people - not just the support, who themselves can still only have one Vision Ward - to buy more wards, since a support with Ruby Sightstone could upgrade a set-up ward into a vision ward right before that ward dies, and increasing the amount of time that vision is granted, saving money in the long run and making wards more cost-efficient.

The expectation is that supports are supposed to build Sightstone, and I doubt you could make any more meaningful change without Sightstone possibly being abused, but it would make the support contributions much more noticeable, and it would allow them the free range to build a Sweeping Lens, or hell.. a Scrying Orb!

Increased cast range is nice as well, it just might buff Lee Sin indirectly since he is the only champion outside of supports who regularly builds it, but then again I don't see how big of an issue that particular buff as well as my suggested one can be. People's issue with him is more that he can dash via ward-hopping, not how far the ward-hopping itself is.

Kaxi9/9/2015, 1:35:25 PM1 votes

It does need some sort of QOL buff (soooo much gold to upgrade), and I think that cast range is just enough to say that it's worth it. I mean, trinkets get a free cast range upgrade from simply having a mastery point in utility. While having 5 charges in between backs is nice, it's just not satisfying.

Marthian9/9/2015, 5:25:21 PM1 votes

Discussion point 1: No, the game cannot. You mentioned yourself: Support swould have to rush it, so now it's their first 1900g of their limited budget to build items to keep up before building items they want.

/post

Ace Access 9/9/2015, 6:50:19 PM1 votes

item 2049 + item 3096 = ruby item 3069

any objections ?

Lugg9/9/2015, 10:01:05 PM1 votes

Awesome suggestion. Hopefully Riot is paying attention.

Durzaka9/9/2015, 10:15:36 PM1 votes

They DONT want Ruby Sightstone or Sightstone to be valuable as a stat/use item.

It is valuable as a way to place and move wards quickly, while still giving a bit of stats and taking one slot.

You buff it any and you will start to see literally every jungler pick it up as well.