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Making the Kog Compromise Worthwhile

ofart··7 votes·1,160 views

Currently, Kog's early game is very weak and that's OK if his late game is truly terrifying. However, with his mana gating, cooldown windows, and lack of escapes, he's not that much scarier than a Caitlyn or other random ADC with a solid early game too.

He has really fallen out of favor since the nerfs and what bothers me the most is that AP Kog was gutted extremely hard (25% less bonus damage to champs) in an effort mainly to curb AD Kog's early lane harass. There's an in-depth discussion about this here. If his ultimate was really too strong early, FINE, do what was done to Jinx, Wu'Kong and countless other champs. Make it scale based on level. The bonus damage could start at 80%, ramp up to 100% and then 130% or whatever feels right. I was against this idea at first because laning suffers a lot but AP Kog's lane was always weak anyway and at least then you could have rewarding ults. if you reached late game. Now, the ults. feel lackluster and half the time a Shaco or Rengar sneaks up on my siege position and nearly 1-shots me. Considering it's a skillshot with quickly increasing mana costs, it should reward me more for actually hitting the targets. Alternatively, the AP ratio can be increased slightly.

I love AP Kog but I feel that my favorite champion is no longer so competitive with other mid laners just because AD Kog was heavily contested in the LCS. The nerfs to Athene's and Lich Bane hurt him hard. Ahri, Zed and Fizz making a comeback was again bad news bears. Now S5 mana regen. from items like Athene's will again be far worse. He's being indirectly and directly hurt a lot and it's just not warranted considering the strength of other AP mids like Xerath or Syndra at all points in the game (with a lot stronger CC too). He needs to have his late game scaling for the level 16 ult. back to the way it was. It's not as if AD Kog even depends on the ult. much at that point. It would just make AP Kog a more viable pick. If Riot can allow AP Ezreal and MF, why is Kog left in the dust?

8 Comments

ofart4 votes

In a duel, Kog will murder Cait but it's not just about raw damage output for a few seconds while W is up and you still have mana for ults. as well as no cooldown on your other skills. Kog is a mediocre 500 range ball of squish outside of that small window and he's godly while in it (especially if he can land Q). However, teamfights tend to last longer than that and unless you're ahead (forcing them to run away and letting your CDs come back), it's risky and hard to play. You'd think he could poke with his ult. but due to the ramping up mana costs, this can become tricky if the enemy team has any form of hard engage. You'l be forced to make a choice between not using your ult. during the fight and having enough mana for Q or E.

Cait does much better in terms of SUSTAINED damage, mobility, utility, poke and finishing off kills. If you look at the total damage output post-game of a good Kog and Cait, you'll also find the difference tends to not be so large. I mained Kog ADC but also played many others. Late game, you're still an ADC as Graves, MF etc. and your damage is still ridiculous. Kog does more than most but it's very conditional and you have to work a lot harder to get there. You also need more peel and protection to take advantage of it. It really sucks to get jumped on after you pop W and spend half the fight kiting back only to have no W once repositioned.

I'd actually say Kog is much better in skirmishes than teamfights because his AoE isn't that impressive in an AD build and the CDs/mana gating becomes much more limiting with more players. The reason is that unlike in a 3vs3 or 2vs2, if you blew all your CDs and killed 1 guy, the fight is NOT won. However, Kog has to get out and be useless or play very risky during this window. This isn't true of Cait. The worst part is that your own team often ignores your CDs in solo-que and engages after you just poked with ult. a few times or used W.

BTW: I realize I can play Kog only AD (I do this too) but I fell in love with AP Kog ages ago and it's basically an entirely different champ. The playstyle is totally different and if AP Kog isn't viable, it's basically like my favorite champion got deleted. Riot still hasn't deleted Teemo so I hope that's enough of a precedent to bring it back to viability. ;)

KzooCrasher2 votes

Sorry but you lost all credibility with me when you said Kog and Cait have similar late games. Kog is an absolute beast late game he melts anything.....

Rebonack1 votes

Sorry but you lost all credibility with me when you said Kog and Cait have similar late games. Kog is an absolute beast late game he melts anything.....

Not if he's dead.

Anywho, I think Riot is afraid of AP Koggy being strong due to his ability to make contesting objectives so one-sided because of his punishing poke. I'm almost tempted to say remake his Ult into something more manageable so that AP Koggy can get meaningful buffs instead of being left to anguish and die. But at the same time, remaking Koggy's Ult means AP Koggy is losing his core, thematic ability.

There aren't any easy solutions to this problem, and this coming from someone who has mained Kog since his first free week.

KzooCrasher1 votes

Not if he's dead.

That is the same with Caitlyn that's why you need to position him correctly.... I'm sorry the idea that Cait and Kog have similiar power in late game is so wrong it makes me wonder if you ever played kog right.... He puts out insane late game damage even if for a short time before he dies he can out damage a cait who lives most the fight....

astralwit2 votes

I agree with this and gave alternative nerf suggestions that don't interfere with Kog's most entertaining ability and his identity as a late game hypercarry.

Kahthegreat1 votes

Or don't play AP Kog, AP Kog'maw was never very serious in its own aspect.

Lack of escapes, lack of actually countering a reasonable and clear opponent, an AOE(a small one, but still an AOE that deals damage to MULTIPLE units(of course if would deal less damage or considerably less damage)) ult, AD Kog is way better in its own sphere anyways, some popular mids right now(Ahri, Akali, Zed) have gap closers, etc.

Kog has AP ratios because building maybe a trinity or a little hybrid item will actually make the AP ratio a little meaningful. I mean it's the same reason why Graves has AP ratios on his 'W'. It's to utilize items like Trinity and other hybrid items(blue ezreal, which has some AP ratios in that build) to make them a little meaningful.

LaughingStapler1 votes

I still do well with AP Kog but I have hundreds of games under my belt and heavily outskill most of my opponents as a result. I think he's underpowered given equal skill.

LaughingStapler1 votes

Actually, the times I face Platinum players, I find the new AP Kog nearly impossible to lane. Katarina, Ahri, Lux etc. just harass him so hard and zone him before he can farm safely with ult. and E. Average Gold players tended to allow me to farm decently even if I couldn't do much to them. That's not the case vs these guys. My only hope is that my jungler camps to punish their overextension and my opponents lack wards.

This isn't a new problem. It was always difficult vs many matchups but I wasn't facing as many players knowing how to exploit that. Also, the late game was a lot better so I could still do OK with less farm. It's becoming increasingly hard to play AP Kog at a decent level and I may have to abandon him despite my great affinity for the champion. He's all skillshots and needs a bigger payoff to make it worthwhile vs the high mobility meta (try ulting an Ezreal, Lucian, Zed, Yasuo etc.). At least his level 16 needs to be brought back to how it was. This 25% reduction on the ult's bonus damge was a very unfair nerf to AP Kog players even if it was unintentional.

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