Fill Role Should have MMR Benefits

ofart·Jan 11, 2016·59 votes·4,479 views

The new champ. select will let you pick your preferred two roles and you're guaranteed to get one of them. For those choosing Fill, there should be some sort of benefit for MMR/matchmaking because such a player must be competent in dozens of champions to play all roles well. Otherwise, people just maining 2 roles will simply ALWAYS have an advantage in climbing and it wouldn't be fair.

Currently, being a Fill player gives no disadvantage because there will be people in the lobby who are only good at 1-2 roles anyway. By being a Fill player now, even though you're not as good at each individual role, you are still better at the roles that these players don't main. Thus, you don't really put yourself at a disadvantage.

I am not a Fill player myself but as I get more experience, I think it would be more fun and I still want to play ranked if I become one.

81 Comments

Gated D LatchJan 12, 201616 votes

Fill or AFK

LittleBlastJan 12, 20168 votes

Fill or feed.

Ive legit almost got my team on so much tilt by saying that jokingly. They saw feed and shat their pants.

MrBuffingtonJan 12, 20167 votes

Yea, I'm not sure what they're going to do about players who fill. I played fill the past season, reason being I give my teammates their best role and I'm (usually) competent enough in whatever role I get to be a solid teammate. I think in teambuilder, they actually match you up with better teammates if you're on a champion or role you're unfamiliar with, so there might be something like that?

I think Riot might be subtly pushing players to main in 1-2 roles. The game is getting more and more complex, and this may be one way Riot is addressing the learning curve; by allowing players to master 1-2 roles at a time, instead of forcing players to be minimally competent in all roles to progress.

Playing fill for me started to feel a bit more like a quick-fix to solo-q problems I had, rather than a sustainable strategy to get better at the game. A lot of times I would take Mid or ADC and just play safe, since a lot of players (my opponents) at my elo aren't used to winning unless they snowball, and a lot of Mid and ADC players (my teammates), in my experience, overestimate their ability in the game, or they main some other role and aren't comfortable/competent in Mid/ADC, so they end up doing poorly. The drawback I've started feeling is that I seldom felt like I really took control of a game, I'm just a solid teammate who'd do their job to win a game; I succeeded through flexibility, not mastery, which is a bit difficult to maintain as I climbed because I would have to match an average player in every role I played (especially since I don't play a ton). Like, lets say if I focused on one role, I could be a Gold level ADC (and a Bronze level Mid), but instead I'm a Silver level ADC and Mid.

Personally, I'm just going to start maining Support and Jungle. Especially with Dynamic Queue being like, pseudo ranked-5s, I can find ways to get competent Mid/ADC/Top laners, or at least players I enjoy playing with.

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 12, 20161 votes

I played fill the past season, reason being I give my teammates their best role and I'm (usually) competent enough in whatever role I get to be a solid teammate

Problem is that I fill and my teammates don't pick their best role. They just think "Oh look, I would like to try out this champ. better go do it in ranked!"

MrBuffingtonJan 12, 20161 votes

Yea, that does happen too, but they'd probably do that whether you played fill or not. Personally, I never really dedicated myself to a role previously (maybe support?), so filling was still the best option for me. If you're really good at a role, by all means, play that role; that's what I'm trying to do now

DeathBurstJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think Riot might be subtly pushing players to main in 1-2 roles. The game is getting more and more complex, and this may be one way Riot is addressing the learning curve; by allowing players to master 1-2 roles at a time, instead of forcing players to be minimally competent in all roles to progress.

Actually it's the reverse. Riot saw in their internal data that most people played "2.1 roles" (sic) so they made the new champ select with 2 positions. I won't bother to find the original post with that quote, so you'll have to take my word for that, sorry ;)

ahferroin7Jan 12, 20161 votes

And for most people, those roles are top and mid.

DeathBurstJan 12, 20161 votes

Nah. It's confirmation bias, because these are the roles where you have people saying "mid or feed" and trolling, so you remember them. But there are plenty of people also playing ADC+Sup (bot expert), Sup+Jungle (the helpful guy), Top+Sup or Top+Jung (Tank expert), ADC+mid (ranged squishy expert), etc.

ahferroin7Jan 14, 20161 votes

I'm not denying that there are lots of people who play other combinations, but that still doesn't explain why in Team Builder, you almost always instantly get a top or mid, but it takes a significant amount of time to find one of the other roles.

DeathBurstJan 14, 20161 votes

I don't play TeamBuilder, so I can't say ^^'

But in ranked, you generally managed to have all 5 roles, not counting the occasional troll. And when you look at what people call, "mid or top" is probably the most common, but it's still a small fraction and other combinations get called a lot too.

MrBuffingtonJan 12, 20161 votes

Interesting; in any case, I do think it'll help with the learning curve, even if Riot didn't intend it to :P

DeathBurstJan 13, 20161 votes

Yeah, and it will remove a lot of toxicity in champ select.

I'm really looking forward to it.

MrBuffingtonJan 13, 20161 votes

Yea, I still have some lingering concerns about how things will pan out, but I think those concerns are pretty minor. I played with it a bit in PBE; it's really neat, if a bit difficult to adjust to at first.

JorenciceJan 11, 20166 votes

I'm going to do support/fill

But I'm guessing I'll get support almost every game.

ImpietyJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to do support/fill

But I'm guessing I'll get support almost every game.

Nah. You'll still get the occasional full rush item 3089 Sona every now and again I am sure.

JorenciceJan 12, 20161 votes

/Shrug.

I got nothing against full ap sona.

She's got good burst and CC.

WoodakoodashoodaJan 11, 20165 votes

If people received any decisive benefit to filling then everyone would pick it.

AMYS GRAVEJan 12, 20166 votes

Is that a bad thing?

RalanrJan 12, 20161 votes

It'd be great for climbing elo.

SevixysJan 13, 20161 votes

I'd prefer 'all fill' every day over 3 'mid or afks'

PDE5 InhibitorsJan 12, 20162 votes

Well, you could have people picking fill just to get the bonus, and then trolling (since I assume we're still having draft pick order). So fill person gets 2nd pick and selects a role that someone already que'd up for just for the bonus. A simple way around this would be a "kick from lobby" option that everyone has been asking for...but never going to happen.

AMYS GRAVEJan 12, 20162 votes

That's true, but the system can detect if they go into a role that wasn't assigned to them and punish them accordingly. It's not perfect but don't let that stop you from improving the situation.

TNHA BaritoneJan 12, 20164 votes

Then everyone picks Fill only for the benefits and come to find out they can't ACTUALLY fill. "Fill but I HIGHLY prefer Mid, Im bad at other roles."

Hyrum GraffJan 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Then everyone picks Fill only for the benefits and come to find out they can't ACTUALLY fill. "Fill but I HIGHLY prefer Mid, Im bad at other roles."

That's not how the new champ select works. If you pick fill, you get auto-matched into a role. You're not gonna go in, get support, and then be like "Hey mid, I picked Fill but suck at supp, can we swap?" The mid laner is going to be like, "Hell no, I queued for mid for a reason: it's what I'm best at. If you can't do everything then don't fill."

kaltenashesJan 12, 20162 votes

"Hey mid, I picked Fill but suck at supp, can we swap?" If you can't do everything then don't fill."

i really hope i dont live enough to see people doing this

VictoryDance96Jan 11, 20163 votes

Hmm, I think you might be onto something...

bump... +1

PartholonianJan 11, 20163 votes

There's no climbing in normals. An MMR "benefit" would just mean you'd get matched up more often against people who would stomp you (because they'd be above you if you had your unadjusted MMR); doesn't sound like much of a reward to me. And also when you get to high enough MMR your queue timers would get longer because there are fewer other players worthy of playing against you; again not really a reward.

The main benefit is that fills will get faster queue timers than anyone except maybe supports. Which actually does help you climb, in a way -- more time spent in game instead of in queue helps you become a more skilled player, and on top of that, if you already have skill above your current rank, more games per day will help you achieve the rank you truly deserve quicker.

If it really is much more difficult to become a skilled fill, then that's a limitation you have to choose whether or not to accept. In practice, my experience with the current queues suggests that it will be about 2/3 support, maybe 15% each ADC and jungle, and like 2% top and mid.

ahferroin7Jan 12, 20163 votes

On the other hand, some people (myself included) choose to fill just because they are either:

Tired of arguing over roles with people.
Equally bad at everything.

TysminJan 12, 20161 votes

Ain't that the truth

SpoofghoulJan 11, 20162 votes

But then by selecting fill you should not be allowed first or second pick to compensate, which would not matter much because you will fill anyway. But it might prevent some abuse

MunchCrunchLunchJan 12, 20162 votes

Fill or feed. seriously though. it makes sense that if players play different roles should have a higher level than people that play 1-2 roles. but it will be hard to implement. because you might play an adc to plane or a non meta jungler so idk how will they get the data to do this

ZephyrDrakeJan 12, 20162 votes

pretty sure the reward and benefit is getting into games faster than those who want to play a specific role

Taric the GayJan 12, 20162 votes

The benefit of being a fill player is that you spend less time waiting. The risk is that you chance playing against someone who mains the role you get slotted into and thus are at a "disadvantage" in the laning phase. It evens out of you ask me. I sure hope people start learning how to support if they select that fill role. Because we all know that the filler almost always ends up being the support.

Tarrlok MorrowJan 30, 20161 votes

What evens it out exactly? I'm a fill player and my queue pops are instant, but I can't help but feel I'm at a disadvantage, because my opponent will usually be a main 'X role'.

Taric the GayJan 30, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tarrlok Morrow,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJsMIJ8y,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-01-30T12:59:43.625+0000)

What evens it out exactly? I'm a fill player and my queue pops are instant, but I can't help but feel I'm at a disadvantage, because my opponent will usually be a main 'X role'.

That's the trade off right there, less waiting. More likely to have a rough game but a shorter wait. The good news is that in the long run you will be a better player for playing some so diversely.

SohleksJan 12, 20162 votes

As a highly experienced jack of all trades I think that would be nice.

However I want to wait and see how "fill" plays out in practice. Need to see how often "fill" plays support. If fill doesn't feel dynamic enough (too much support) that'll be lame. Personally I don't think fill should have actual mmr incentive if it isn't dynamic enough (especially for playing just support...)

It's gonna depend how many people use support as a secondary role.

So... is fill gonna be an dynamic experience. " Random" (almost~). Or is it gonna be just unpopular role balancer.

MorganKainesJan 12, 20162 votes

I will use support as a primary role, every time :)

And interestingly enough, most the friends on my list are support mains too, lol. And my sister is a support main :P

I don't think it will be as of a general as big of an issue as some might think, still a lot of support mains out there, and a lot of people who prefer to just fill without having to choose something. With the new masteries, support is a bit more fun for some, so you'll likely see more support players in time. And RIOT stated that if this turns out to be an issue they'll find incentives to make the roles more attractive to players.

It'll work itself out. Worst case scenario and you're near the silver/gold tier, you can always add me ;) I'd love to support for you, lol.

fractalfantasiesJan 12, 20162 votes

I agree actually.

10% LP bonus

Small IP bonus for a win

kaltenashesJan 12, 20162 votes

Filler Reporting In For Duty, from bot to top i fill for you bb, whether its dragon or rift herald i'm your man, no gimme bonus ip/rp

http://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_super/1551/15516851/2941772-lfs21.png

Edge of DaybreakJan 11, 20161 votes

if that benefit is ip then I would just queue fill every game. Since that is basically what playing draft is like now.

Shroom JunkieJan 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

if that benefit is ip then I would just queue fill every game. Since that is basically what playing draft is like now.

"Fill Role Should Have MMR Benefits"

Where did IP come into that?

Edge of DaybreakJan 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

"Fill Role Should Have MMR Benefits"

Where did IP come into that?

See there is this word "if" implying a separate idea than the one originally suggested since giving people mmr isn't actually a thing and I think that ip would be more reasonable.

ZtokaJan 12, 20161 votes

My issue w/ this would be with those people (and you know they are out there) taking fill to get the bonus but not knowing how to play all roles properly. Don't be mad guys, I chose fill so I could get the bonus it offers.. Don't be mad that I don't know support, adc, or jungle.

I could see this maybe working if you only got said bonus upon winning a game. Would be far less troll fill picks.

KyrrionJan 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

My issue w/ this would be with those people (and you know they are out there) taking fill to get the bonus but not knowing how to play all roles properly. Don't be mad guys, I chose fill so I could get the bonus it offers.. Don't be mad that I don't know support, adc, or jungle.

I could see this maybe working if you only got said bonus upon winning a game. Would be far less troll fill picks.

Winning a game as a "Fill" should net you more LP for being more adaptive and having broad game knowledge (probably 20% more or so, enough to add up over time but small enough to not be abused. If you aren't comfortable in every roll, "Fill" will only make you lose as you won't be able to compete. At least in ranked.

Otherwise a similar IP boost would be nice for normals and other queues.

Carpe VictoriaJan 12, 20161 votes

Isn't this going to turn into the same issues/perks as team builder? Fill = you get to play NOW (as sup or jg, lol) and not wait long like other lanes. The wait time is the benefit.

SevixysJan 12, 20161 votes

I don't think so. The new champ select will take place in normal draft AND ranked queues. No one actually played team builder cause it was a different game mode. Exactly how many people play ranked daily? A lot. How many main supports are there? A freaking lot. That's why the new champ select is gonna be pretty pretty smooth.

Carpe VictoriaJan 12, 20161 votes

I'm just low elo and mmr so there's a lot of players in my range. I guess that skews things, but team builder, aside from supports and sometimes jungle, is usually pretty full with teams waiting. And definitely, once again, in low elo there are virtually no supports. 5th pick is usually forced to sup or someone else just picks it because 5th pick threw a tantrum and said they would feed or troll if they got asked to sup. I just can't see there not being a lack of sups issue. If people can fill for sup thats great though but i doubt they will play much more than that. Probably different for higher elos but for the majority of the players that are in low elo this is how picking lanes goes.

SevixysJan 13, 20161 votes

I count myself as low elo (silver 1) but still I have tens of support mains in my friend list :p And often in rankeds I can't even pick supp due to someone Else picking it.. In my opinion support is one of the most influential roles in the game (and so diverse!). If you think your elo hasn't got many good supps, give it a try! Some champs like lulu, bard, tahm and braum are so fun :3

Carpe VictoriaJan 13, 20161 votes

I like to play sup and have a lot of mastery 5 sup champs. I don't do it often anymore because solo q has too many rager adcs that log out or troll once they get mad at you. But that doesn't change 50% of last picks typing "can't sup" or "will troll if sup" in silver 5 and lower. It's just a fact. I see this nonstop.

JChaosMasterJan 14, 20161 votes

I think that could be a good idea in ranked. It would show you got skills above the normal. With it being if you only play bot then you would suck in all other lanes. But to balance your idea wouldn't a fill player have to lose even more points. As it stands fill is more of the I don't care spot then I can play everything.