Rioter on Reddit said Yas is getting a rework. Here's how it'll go.

chipndip1·Jun 12, 2017·19 votes·2,604 views

Before: Yasuo is banned almost all the time, warranted or not.

During: It's a reworked champion. You always ban new champs or champs with new changes because you don't wanna face something weird + you don't want your team feeding.

After: If Yasuo is viable in any way at all, then the rework was a failure and everyone goes back to banning Yasuo.

This is my prediction.

Edit: You bois keep askin for da sauce, so here's some of that sauce.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6g3asi/as_of_the_10_ban_system_yasuo_now_has_a_924_ban/dinmrbd/

69 Comments

ShadòwJun 12, 20176 votes

or he will become too strong at first, abused in proplay and then gets nerfed into an unplayable state so that no one plays him anymore.

this would actually be a dream.

RainfallJun 12, 20171 votes

yasuo nerfed to an unplayable state? youre talking about the champion who has been in the top 5 banned champions since his release. you think riot is gonna gut him and lose all the money on the yasuo skins?

ShadòwJun 12, 20171 votes

they are already sold anyway ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Yaoi TardedJun 13, 20171 votes

It'll go great if rengar is anything to go by.

CannonLordFreedJun 12, 20173 votes

Cynical, but probably accurate.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20176 votes

The real question is... does anyone WANT Yasuo back?

I mean... other than Yas mains, but I'm pretty sure they're not real people.

CannonLordFreedJun 12, 20171 votes

I mean, he wasn't that terrible to play against. But I only ever see him lategame because I play support so what do I know? I clearly have no brain and I'm just a fucking dumbass because I prefer to save your ass, drop wards, and win the game rather than rack up kills.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20172 votes

Your reply took some kind of weird turn halfway through and I have no idea why. I don't RECALL insulting you or supports in general, but you seem testy about something. You want to talk about it?

CannonLordFreedJun 12, 20171 votes

I'm good. I'd just like to go a day without seeing some "Supports are trash" thread on here.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

Um, I never said that tho?

In fact I mained support for a long time. Janna got me outta bronze. (Wooooo!)

LauchmelderJun 12, 20171 votes

Well, take Rakan and give him a 0.5s CD on W and E and you got the Yasuo of botlane.

CannonLordFreedJun 12, 20171 votes

Ah, that's why I don't hate him. I main Rakan.

LauchmelderJun 12, 20171 votes

Tbh both Yasuo and Rakan are fun to play and Rakan is ok to play against.

But would you want to play against him if he had virtually no cooldown on W and E?

ShahamutJun 12, 20172 votes

I am no Yasuo main, but I love the champion concept and have never had a problem with him. I finally started playing him for real and now this... feels bad man

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

If you like the concept, you'll still like it when he's reworked to be less infuriating to play against.

If you ditch him after he's reworked... you weren't into the concept, you were into his toxic af kit.

ShahamutJun 12, 20171 votes

I do find his current kit fun and engaging. I don't find it toxic at all.

Kits that I find toxic: heimmerdinger, (Not AS bad as before, but still), He isn't impossible to deal with either. He just is VERY noninterractive.

I also hate "laning" against a Ziggs or Xerath. Since its less landing "against" them, and more of them just laning "at you" while you try to farm.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

They just changed heimer for being obnoxious to play against, so you're making the point that you're arguing against here.

As for long-ranged poke mages... well you're better set up than most to deal with them bro. What with those spammy dashes to engage and wind wall to block skillshots (not xeraths tho). Not to mention that fun fun fun shield to mitigate their poke so they go oom just TRYING to force you out of lane.

You're only seeing it from your perspective here. I assure you, those mages are JUST as annoyed at having a yasuo in lane with them as you are seeing them there.

ShahamutJun 12, 20171 votes

I wasn't coming from a Yasuo player perspective. I'm a Renekton main in top and in mid I mostly play things like Orianna in mid. I play Yasuo in normals.

Heimmers touch up was nice, I don't instantly die to turrets anymore, but it didn't deduce his annoyance levels. Heimmer isn't nearly as annoying when I play Yasuo, because I can play around my Windwall Windows.

I'm trying really hard to stay non biased in this. And long range mages don't have to waste mana trying to harass has out of lane, be patient and stay back and auto attack his shield, you can blow him up after, especially easy with xerath since he cares not for Windwall.

I'm not denying that Yasuo has tools to survive and outplay, but you take away his shield, he has no real windows to do anything against ranged champions till Windwall, and then you are talking about REALLY long cooldown.

I'd the windows are too short, you can change how long the shield takes to come up. But again, as far as shields go, Riven's shield will 100% block more damage more often and Riven has control over when she uses it. Yasuo gets it eventually by walking, but he has no control of when it blocks damage. It's a point of balance.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

Here is the issue. "I'm not denying that yas has tools to survive and outplay"

Yes. That is why he's so obnoxious. He has a kit that gives him a TON of outplay potential and a pile of defensive abilities (Including IMO the the best team defensive ability in the game). Yasuo is both a master of cockblocking his enemy AND of going ham himself to press any lead he gets. Every fight with him is on his terms and he's covered on all bases... he's just hard to use so a lot of Yas players mess him up.

This is NOT good design. And the only thing Yas players ever bring up when someone calls part of his kit into question is always "so and so champ has something like this but worse". This is faulty logic. If my car has flat tires and your car has NO tires it doesn't mean my car is in a good spot or that the flat tires aren't a problem because someone else's car is in worse shape! It is not a single part of his kit that makes him obnoxious to deal with. It is his ENTIRE kit.

Dude needs a rework. Badly.

ShahamutJun 12, 20171 votes

Would Riven be in bad need of a rework then also in your opinion? Akali? Ekko? Zed?

There are plenty of champions who have the tools to survive and outplay their opponents.

"Every fight with him is on his terms"

What? Maybe if he is super fed. Maybe. In most cases, he doesn't decide when fights happen. Not in team fights anyway. In a 1v1? Depends on the matchup.

My biggest issue right now is that you talk about Yasuo like he's some kind of God champion with no weaknesses.

"He's covered on all bases".

If you can't recognize Yasuo's weaknesses as well as his strengths, how can you legitimately contribute to the conversation?

If Yasuo being strong/o.o was 100% on the skill of the player and his kit gave that much control over the game, why does his ban rate drop so much in higher elos? Why don't the BEST PLAYERS in the world bring him to the lcs?

The WhamboozlerJun 13, 20171 votes

I full well see the guy's weaknesses. Why does EVERY freakin Yas defender jump right to "this person doesn't like Yasuo because they lose to Yasuo. I will tell them how to beat Yasuo and then he will be fine!"

No one likes Yasuo because his kit and playstyle are incredibly obnoxious. He makes the game worse for everyone BUT the one asshole playing him, no matter which team he's on. What's more... a LOT of his players are the usual sort of obnoxious BMing douchebags that tend to flock to popular champs.

I don't have issue with Yas because he regularly curb stomps me. In fact, I main a lot of Malz and brutally counter him just by EXISTING. I just hate him because of his poor design and overloaded kit. I hate the affect he has on the game. I hate most of the people I see who play him.

As for your first question? No, riven doesn't need a rework. Riven has the good graces to be kinda balanced. If she snowballs early she's a terror and if she falls behind she's.... not. Akali might need one just to make her less point and click (never a good idea for assassin types). Ekko is overloaded as hell too, so I'm 50-50 on him, and Zed is fine. He does exactly what he's supposed to do. There is a ton of counterplay to him and setting him back renders him less than useful.

Yasuo however, combines a frustrating matchup with a potent early game, a potent mid game, a potent late game and the tendency to NEVER fall off in relevance. He can always get back into a match if set behind. He legit has too much. I can't really think of a better example of the WORST design choices all crammed into one champion. (Maybe if they gave him AD scaling % true damage or something)

I can beat the asshole. I just don't WANT to. I don't want to see him anymore. I'm sick of him. Ever since he's become permaban, I've actually enjoyed the game a lot more. (It helps that Fizz is ALSO kinda permabanned too) I don't care if they rework him or not, because I never have to deal with his obnoxious ass again.

ShahamutJun 14, 20171 votes

I never once accused you of not liking him because he whooped you. I said that you talk about him as if he has no weaknesses and is unbeatable.

"Can always get back into the game" "Potent at all stages of the game" "Covered on all bases" "All fights are on HIS terms" Etc. Etc.

I am calling you out on your complete and utter bias, which makes you unfit to have a meaningful conversation. Your angry assumption and childish outburst only further proves this.

And then you follow up with "I know his weaknesses" don't list any of them, and talk enough now you are able to beat him but don't want to. Now your own testimony contradicts all of your previous claims.

Take A chill pill. Come back when you are ready to have a real discussion.

The WhamboozlerJun 14, 20171 votes

You say bias, I say accurate assessment of why he's frustrating.

But honestly, it doesn't matter. Take your holier than thou condescending attitude the hell out of here dude, because I don't care. He's permaban now and that's fine by me. You can feign that you're right and talk down to me all you want but it won't put him in any more games.

He's obnoxious and hated... and that's not going away any time soon.

ShahamutJun 14, 20171 votes

Take a chill pill. Come back when you are ready to have a real discussion.

Nothing I said was condescending. "You don't like Yasuo". That is all you have contributed to the conversation.

The WhamboozlerJun 15, 20171 votes

Did you just quote YOURSELF? And add a typo that wasn't there before? And WHY?

Dog, you better be drunk. I contributed PLENTY of reasons why I feel he's frustrating and obnoxious. Just because you're deaf doesn't mean people aren't speaking. You are ignoring everything I'm saying when it suits you, and then accusing me of "contributing nothing". Well this whole discussion is pointless, so I don't see how that's an insult or a thing to toss at me scornfully.

It's boards. Almost EVERYTHING here is pointless. Get off your high horse, you self-important twat.

ShahamutJun 15, 20171 votes

I told you, all you have contributed to the "conversation" is that you dont like Yasuo.

We were, or rather should have been, having a discussion, part of the entire point of replying to one another. You spout emotional nonsense, as if it is God-breathed fact, and then blatantly contradict what you say.

And still, you resort to name calling and insults, further showing your lack of ability to actually argue your point, as if you had one to begin with.

I said, yes, he can be frustrating, and Im not denying he has tools for outplay...

You stop reading at "he has tools for outplay" and then spout off how he basically controls the entire game on his own and cant TRULY be stopped "always has a way to get back into the game" etc etc.

You don't engage the conversation. I mention other champions with similar (if not greater in my opinion) ability to outplay opponents and you basically just argue that they arent Yasuo. You don't actually interact in the discussion, but go back to your dogmatic preaching of hate feelings because Yasuo.

I simply pointed it out. Stop getting hurt over nothing.

Take a chill pill. Come back when you are ready to have a real discussion.

ZapMyHeartJun 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I wasn't coming from a Yasuo player perspective. I'm a Renekton main in top and in mid I mostly play things like Orianna in mid. I play Yasuo in normals.

Heimmers touch up was nice, I don't instantly die to turrets anymore, but it didn't deduce his annoyance levels. Heimmer isn't nearly as annoying when I play Yasuo, because I can play around my Windwall Windows.

I'm trying really hard to stay non biased in this. And long range mages don't have to waste mana trying to harass has out of lane, be patient and stay back and auto attack his shield, you can blow him up after, especially easy with xerath since he cares not for Windwall.

I'm not denying that Yasuo has tools to survive and outplay, but you take away his shield, he has no real windows to do anything against ranged champions till Windwall, and then you are talking about REALLY long cooldown.

I'd the windows are too short, you can change how long the shield takes to come up. But again, as far as shields go, Riven's shield will 100% block more damage more often and Riven has control over when she uses it. Yasuo gets it eventually by walking, but he has no control of when it blocks damage. It's a point of balance.

I don't mind his shield, as long as there's a COST. At the moment, he regains his shield rather quickly, especially when spamming his E, whereas other champions' shields has some form of barrier to prevent it from being constantly up.

I prefer if they increased the conditions to charge the shield. Mostly, halve the values and make it at a set 100 units. It allows him some survivability, but still gives some counterplay to it.

ShahamutJun 13, 20171 votes

I think if his shield down time is too short, that would be a fine way to go about it. Reducing its uptime by effectively increasing its charge time would be good. I think it could scale down in the later game, since I think Yasuo's late game is fine.

CannonLordFreedJun 12, 20171 votes

Galio would like to have a word with you. Actually, he wants to just smash you into the ground. Old Galio would like to have a word with you.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

Um yeah... isn't new Galio far more popular tan old Galio?

Not sure what your point here is. That reworks can still be OP? I know that.

CannonLordFreedJun 12, 20171 votes

You said that if you don't like a champ after they're reworked you weren't into the concept you were into their toxic af kit. New Galio completely abandoned old Galio's concept. I played and loved old Galio, I got Mastery 7 with him, he was great. New Galio is the ugly as shit Mr.Hyde to old Galio's Dr.Jekyll.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

Fair point. I personally hate new Skarner (Rip in peace my fav jungler of Season 3) , new Cass, new Fiora and almost every lore change they've ever done.

I'll also give you that new Galio is a drastic change from the old in lore, look and playstyle.

But I will NOT give you this pertaining to Yasuo in any way. You know damned well they're not gonna change anything about Yasuo but a few mechanics and maybe some scalings or base numbers. They're not gonna change his model, his lore or (probably) his art. He's got too much of a fanbase for them to alter him as much as they did to an underplayed champ like Galio.

But I feel your pain. I loved a lot of underplayed champs that got trashed by Riot to make them "more viable". Most of them immediately STAYED unviable. It was stupid.

CannonLordFreedJun 13, 20171 votes

It's because of Rito's Mario Party obsession. I blame the power of post-rework Fiora.

hittedJun 12, 20173 votes

Every champion has a player base. Some champions are hated by the rest of the community (E.g. Yasuo, Riven, Fiora, Rengar, gp), but don't you think it's unfair to destroy said champions because "they are hated by most"? The thing with such champions is most probably their high skill cap and carry potential, which enables them to appear to solo carry games. Except maybe Fiora. IMO she is way too overloaded.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Some champions are hated by the rest of the community (E.g. Yasuo, Riven, Fiora, Rengar, gp), but don't you think it's unfair to destroy said champions because "they are hated by most"?

No. If he's so frustrating, hated or unfun to play against that he can't make it through a single ban phase he should be changed. Clearly he is pissing off 90-some % of the players in the game and that is a VERY bad thing. No game should try to preserve something that is ruining the game for almost everyone that doesn't play it. It's bad design.

Rework the jerk so he's not the most obnoxious thing in the game and people will stop banning him. Then his fans can play him again without ruining the game for everyone else. And after Yasuo... we need to rally and permaban THIS little fucker next. Fizz

hittedJun 12, 20172 votes

Let's just agree on the fact that Riot makes mistakes on some champions and that they should admit those mistakes and fix them.

The WhamboozlerJun 12, 20171 votes

Agreed, but that doesn't mean Yas is off the hook.

Fine Ionian SilkJun 12, 20173 votes

Do you have a link to the reddit post? I've been trying to find it, but I'm clueless when it comes to Reddit D:

paisyJun 12, 20172 votes

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6g3asi/as_of_the_10_ban_system_yasuo_now_has_a_924_ban/dinmrbd/

paisyJun 12, 20172 votes

When I link the post this comes up so idk lol

Fine Ionian SilkJun 12, 20172 votes

No worries, I can still view the comment. Thank ya very much :D

ChargeItDownMidJun 12, 20173 votes

[deleted]

DunkinNoobsJun 12, 20175 votes

{quoted}

IMO reworked yasuo shouldn't be as bad as current yasuo.

The main reason yasuo has been so hard to balance is because yasuo was a melee champion created to be as strong as ranged champions back when ranged champions severely outclassed melee champions. A lot of his problem comes from the fact that as riot started closing the gap between melee and ranged

What? The gap between ranged and melee isn't closing; it's getting wider. Rework Caitlyn? Xayah? Deaths Dance Draven? Anti-dive supps like Lulu, Kench, Rakan? The game is getting more range focused, not less.

ShahamutJun 12, 20172 votes

I feel like you are right... I personally can't stand mob rule, especially when it is statistacally unjustified hatered fueled by memory and confirmation bias.

I have yet to see video of a Yasuo going 0/4 in lane and the stomp everyone once he FINALLY finishes PD... someone said it once, now I see it in every Yasuo thread.

Yasuo is complained about for everything there is to complain about:

Double Crit Shield E/Q combo Windwall Dashes Armor pen/turret avoidance My Yasuo feeds Your Yasuo carries He's OP EZ brain dead champ He's "toxic" His mains are "toxic" He's "anti fun"

Did I miss anything?

TrashballJun 12, 20172 votes

Perhaps the very existence of so many factors to complain about should be an indicator that he's not healthy for the game in his current state.

ShahamutJun 12, 20173 votes

These are all elements that exist in the game.

Riven easily has more to complain about:

Non-situational ACTUALLY near infinite mobility.

A much LARGER shield with a MUCH more frequent up time and she controls when it comes up.

Equally reliable c.f. with her aoe stun/knock up.

Manaless, etc etc

Yasuo is great in lane, but outside of lane and 1v1's near minions, he's pretty team reliant.

I'm not saying people can't be annoyed by this champion, I'm annoyed by heimmerdinger. I'm sure some disagree. Opinions are fine. I just can't, for the life of me, see why a champion who is so easily beaten is hated so badly. He's not EZ OP, or he'd be LCS $$$ and he is all but absent there. His win rate suggests that he takes some work to play well as. I just don't see anything but repeated unproven hate.

TrashballJun 12, 20171 votes

Personally, my only gripe with him is how frustrating it is to try to teamfight against a yasuo because he can cut mages off from a huge portion of the fight and most mages can't just walk through the wall and expect to not get their teeth knocked down their throat.

There's also a fair argument to be made that it's very easy to screw up yasuo, and that makes having him on your team at all risky, a major risk that yasuo players kind of force onto their team unless they ban him.

But generally, a LOT of people hate at least SOMETHING about yasuo, and he's also a lot more globally influential in a game because mid champs actually interact with all the different lanes more (much, MUCH more than a top champ like riven)

ShahamutJun 12, 20172 votes

This is fine. I respect that. Though I would argue that him being a "risk for his team" is no different than any other champ that requires moderate mechanics. I think arguments like this are primarily fueled by memory bias.

I can understand mages and wind wall. A lot of it's counterplay is mild at best when it comes to immobile mages.

If wind wall's size was fixed (no bigger than rank 2 or 3) and the duration reduced to no longer than 3 seconds at max rank (scales from lower) I think it would go a long way to alleviate some of that.