I still don't understand why Irelia is awarded with a full 2s stun if she has 3 hp less than you.

Theorchero··83 votes·4,533 views

Honestly the "Equilibrium Strike" should scale with the % hp difference because when she is ahead, you can't escape because she murders you with the slow. When she's behind, the stun makes her win anyway.

Reverse the slow and stun, and scale with % HP difference.

122 Comments

Spicy Rice34 votes

Honestly, she prob needs a rework.

She either

A. Gets slightly ahead and becomes insanely oppresive

or

B. Falls behind, and off the edge of the planet

Raxistaicho5 votes

She's most likely going to get a rework in the coming year.

dragon1xx2 votes

TM

Christian Fright1 votes

Hello! ^^ Sorry to trouble you here, I just wanted to speak with you and I could not find a message option on the platform. ^^'

Firstly, I would like to thank you for your feedback on my champion concept for Kruularion in the CCOS October. Along with the other feedback I received, I came to the decision to rework his gameplay kit, and I would like to ask your thoughts on what I have come up with so far, if it is within the bounds of your convencience of course. Thank you in advance, have a great day!

Raxistaicho1 votes

No problem, I'll look into it sometime soon :)

mason water2 votes

how does irelia fall off?

DunkinNoobs2 votes

Being really, really good at 1v1's as a niche naturally falls off.

KoKoboto1 votes

The thing is, even when she falls behind like loses tower and is down a kill she can still dish out enough damage to kill targets

SnugglePuggle944 votes

Um, same goes for just about any other champion besides a support?

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

KoKoboto1 votes

Nah you actually have to respect her damage output by a lot because of her true damage. If champions like: Ahri Aatrox Anivia Fiddlesticks Lux Renekton Yorick Teemo fall behind you don't have to think too much about outplaying them but Irelia can do so much with just her W.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Uh hello any champ that gets behind can still be outplayed, and still can deal a lot of damage. Irelia is one too.

KoKoboto1 votes

Yeah I know that, I've done this a ton with Illaoi. However with Irelia it's a lot easier because she does so much damage and has point click stun

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Annie has point and click plus lots of burst and damage. Irelia is just another champ in the pile, but doesn't mean she needs changes based on a few people's bias against her.

KoKoboto1 votes

If Annie falls behind her damages is significantly less and she only has her stun. If Irelia falls behind it doesn't matter too much, sure she is great with items but isn't entirely item dependent because of the damage she has from ult and W passive.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Eh then you haven't seen a pure Annie whose a little behind. She still packs a ton mind you.

KoKoboto1 votes

If by pure Annie you mean not going Rod of Ages first, then I have seen a pure Annie. If she is behind and doesn't have enough gold/items to kill you in a rotation the enemy will just defeat her.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

No, not really. I've seen Annie's who haven't gone ROA first, get a little behind and still wreck shit. I've even done it before I had any first item completed. And for some reason if a player isn't able to kill them, then she can wait around for her next rotation- the enemy can't just defeat her unless they were going all in, plus she has flash for escaping.

Vesemir3 votes

Renekton would murder you if you act carelessly even if he is behind. Dont underestimate Ahri and Anivia aswell.

Potato Doc4 votes

As someone who has played her quite extensively since release A.) she can hurt but remember mid game is her spike, she starts to lose steam after that

or

B.) She has excellent map roaming possibilities I have been down 0/4 in lane and come out 9/5 at the end with a victory because I knew where to apply pressure.

Noble Fox1 votes

Agree 100%

General Esdeath 16 votes

{quoted}

Reverse the slow and stun.

???

Theorchero4 votes

{quoted}

???

Is it that hard of a concept? Inverse the slow and stun.

LankPants25 votes

Irelia now builds item 3078 item 3142 item 3147 item 3074 item 3814 and tries to burst you for as much as possible with Q before turning and stunning you and bursting you down during the duration of the stun.

If you survive guess what, she has more HP than you, so you're stunned again.

Stop pretending like you have an understanding of the champ you're mindlessly QQing about. It's clear that you have almost no experience playing Irelia and very limited knowledge of how her kit works.

ShaolinToilet2 votes

With that build its obvious you have 0 experience or knowledge about irelia.

LankPants9 votes

Reverse the slow and stun, and scale with % HP difference.

That's what he's suggesting, with this change you just want to deal as much damage in a single Q as you can so you can land a stun.

With that build its obvious you have 0 experience or knowledge about irelia.

http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=LankPants

As It turns out I have at least some idea about Irelia.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

You have some experience but more often than thought your games are 2-4, 1-3, 4-8 with a few 12-1, 14-8 games mixed in. And for the record, for your past 20 games, you haven't even used the build you recommended in a earlier post. You mainly go TF, Sterak's Gage, and a mix of other tank items with maybe a Wit's End thrown in. Maybe you should use the builds you think shes good in before commenting that she actually works well. If you haven't tried it you can't say it works good or not.

KingKong23505 votes

Are you that dense_ Hes saying that if you inverse the stun and the slow, your objective changes and that becomes your build

SnugglePuggle941 votes

That build is still garbage.

KingKong23501 votes

[deleted]

SnugglePuggle941 votes

"My condition"?! Wow. Reported.

And yes, it's still garbage and nowhere near perfect.

Requiemsfire10 votes

Meanwhile champions like Renekton XinZhao and are equally if not more oppressive than Irelia.

ItsOrval1 votes

Easier to lane against imo.

Rene is tanky, does no damage.

Xin is squishy, does great damage.

Irelia is tanky, with true damage.

Cowseed4 votes

Rene does no damage?

Then I am a f*cking toaster.

smh

Vesemir1 votes

Renekton has no true damage and doesnt heal to full hp with aa. Both of these champions can be kited especially Renekton. But Xin part i agree

Requiemsfire2 votes

I'm sorry but are you not aware Renekton's manaless, heals with his Q, has 2 dashes with a full rage bar, a point and click conditionless stun, and an autoattack reset?

WoonStruck8 votes

Of all the things wrong with Irelia, her stun is not it.

If an Irelia is behind, she's going to stay behind unless you're playing against her like an idiot, which sounds likely.

If an Irelia has the potential to burst you, don't get near her. Same deal with Darius, Riven, or even someone like annie/fizz. No matter how low HP unless a safe kill is guaranteed.

Theorchero4 votes

{quoted}

Of all the things wrong with Irelia, her stun is not it.

If an Irelia is behind, she's going to stay behind unless you're playing against her like an idiot, which sounds likely.

If an Irelia has the potential to burst you, don't get near her. Same deal with Darius, Riven, or even someone like annie/fizz. No matter how low HP unless a safe kill is guaranteed.

Yeah let me just CC the Irelia with up to, what is it now, 78% tenacity or some shit?

She does an assload of damage and is very tanky and pretty mobile. She's a jugger and that's okay, but she is also hard to lock down and offers no real counterplay except to out-stat her. Nasus is just as polarizing (in his own way) and is kept weak for this very reason. He's a stat stick. If he out stats, you lose, gg wp no re. If you out stat him, he's utterly hilariously weak.

LankPants6 votes

Yeah let me just CC the Irelia with up to, what is it now, 78% tenacity or some shit?

http://champion.gg/champion/Irelia

Most Irelia's do not build Merc Treads. Most Irelia's do not take Swiftness. The only source of Tenacity Irelia has in most cases is her passive.

In the majority of cases Irelia's passive is 10% tenacity, when it's not you have a numbers advantage. 10% tenacity is very, very weak.

If she does build Merc's she'll have 37% Tenacity. Any other champs with Merc's has 30%. A 7% increase, what a big deal.

hhaavviikk6 votes

I disagree, her stun mechanic IS what's wrong with her because it punishes you for doing well against her, winning a trade against her by hitting all the skillshots and good positioning? too bad now I get to point & click stun you and auto win the trade.

ChaoticPinecone5 votes

Whats wrong with a kit that gives more strength as they take more damage? Olaf has it. Sion has it with his passive. Soraka has it with her ult. Vlad has it with his Q. Gnar kinda has it. Maokai has it.

Over Innsmouth3 votes

None of those cc you for two seconds so that they can damage you for free. Vlad's kit is CD based, which is less abusive than AA based. Soraka is a support. Maokai is a tank. Sion is already dead if he's using passive. Both Vlad and Olaf's scale with their own % missing health, which means that they have to be quite low to reap benefits, rather than just being 2 hp under their opponent.

WoonStruck5 votes

Irelia also can't do much of anything if she can't keep you relatively still unless she has an absurd lead.

If you think its unfair that she has a conditional stun, how about we remove all of the on-demand stuns in the game? Obviously all of those are broken by concept according to your claims.

Would you rather she had an on-demand stun? Stunned you if you were lower HP than her?

Over Innsmouth2 votes

...Where did I say that stuns were broken, of any kind? All I was doing was differentiating between examples of getting stronger when low. At most I implied that it annoys me that it's 2 seconds.

Defend your champ all you want, but don't write it up so that it sounds like I said something I didnt.

WoonStruck1 votes

Defend my champ? Take a look at my match history please.

I hate fighting Irelia as much as the next guy; doesn't mean her E is the issue. My issue is that she can Q directly to me as Vlad, without even getting the stun from her E, and blow me up no matter what. You can't even lane against her without jungle intervention if she's playing properly, and it has absolutely nothing to do with her E's stun.

Over Innsmouth1 votes

Well yeah, I hate fighting her too, I just disagree on what her main issue is.

And I apologize for implying that you might have mained her secondary or tertiary after Vlad (I did remember who you are), as you were defending her with such spirit.

WoonStruck1 votes

I think Irelia's gameplay patterns (passive, Q, E) offer a lot to the game, and their interactions with each other create a diver that actually has to work for their engage potential. The unique engage pattern she has when she doesn't have kill potential makes her a great champion as far as gameplay, in my opinion.

**However, her W and R are boring, uninspired abilities that simply make her kit about how well she can stat-check people and how well her kit can apply Trinity Force's stats. **


What I really don't like is how she scales so well with literally any stat that makes up Trinity Force outside of Mana Crystal, or a single relevant defensive component if in a non-favorable match-up->TF, and can proceed to roll over a good majority of match-ups, >>>>>regardless of stun<<<<<, if anything is even slightly in her favor and they aren't building shit-loads of HP early on.

Over Innsmouth1 votes

Basically everything you said I agree with. My issue with her E is less the concept, and more it's implementation. If the stun scaled with the difference in health between two targets rather than just being a single value that can be proc'd with 2000 hp higher or 2 hp higher, it'd be cool.

And yes, Irelia's synergy with Trinity Force is way too high. It's hilariously unfair how strong she becomes with a single item. Irelia as a Champion is full of interesting ideas (the E, psychic blademaster, anti-range) with horrible realization of said concepts.

I think when she gets reworked, she should be tuned towards being anti-range, at the cost of struggling against melee matchups so that she has an actual niche instead of just winning if the Irelia is sufficiently skilled (which isnt hard).

WoonStruck1 votes

I'd like her to be more anti-carry than anti-range.

Countering champions based on their auto-attack range isn't very good design, because it means she screams stat-check, as that's the primary difference between most melee and range: damage/defensive stats. The melee either out-damages or out-tanks ranged if they 'counter' them in most cases.

Her having tools to take significant damage and turn it back onto her enemy is a better design, and probably what her new ult should end up being, since it will then be gameplay reliant, as opposed to a given for simply existing like her current design.

It fits her theme much better as well.

WoonStruck8 votes

TBH, if this completely horrible idea of a 'rework' happened, she would be insanely overpowered.

She would just Q to a carry, putting them at half HP, then stun them. They would be dead no matter what.


Do everyone a favor and stop posting balance suggestions.

a special one6 votes

you are kinda stupid i dont like u

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