What if they were reworked to have better designs and stats baseline but crit and attack speed itemization got counteractive nerfs. Letting them be relevant all game but not hypercarry when games get beyond 15 minute GGs.
What if them being ranged combatants with cool abilities and some DPS was their "niche" versus being late game artillery right click spammers?
I don't play ADC much forgive me if my direction is misguided.
Big Lincoln5 votesi asked this question before and I got insulted a lot mostly
i think crit is really dumb with how league implements it (stacking crit) and we should move away from that design since it's a burst mechanic and not a DPS one. rightclicking is fine, though, but a good chunk of ADCs are quite lacking in distinct gameplay beyond who can right click the hardest or the safest.
marksmen should be more individualized and have more noticeable power curves, though. early game bullies should fall off like other classes do; late games should require items to turn on. itemization should be opened up more to fit; AD casters get their own build paths, build options for if you want to build some defense+safety, or if you want to go all-in and full glass cannon to carry.
DrugsForRobots1 votesYou think it's Crit, I think AS is the culprit.
What would the effect be if Marksmen had more range, but attacked slower and hit harder?
Teemodanegro5 votesRiot doesn't want to pigeon hole classes into defined roles and things they need to do.
That being said, i think Riot needs to suck it up and pigeon hole Marksman into what they already do but earlier on and lessen the late game carry aspect.
MunchCrunchLunch5 votesRiot doesn't want to pigeon hole classes into defined roles and things they need to do.
That being said, i think Riot needs to suck it up and pigeon hole Marksman into what they already do but earlier on and lessen the late game carry aspect.
however they should not be overbearing in solo lanes if they were to do so. by that I mean top lane
NineTailedMystic2 votesLet's keep them out of any solo lane thanks. And by that I mean mid lane too.
LankPants1 votesYou main Ahri, you fool.
NineTailedMystic1 votesMm? And? I like to be able to outplay my opponents damage in lane. I like having the ADC lower levels than me.
LankPants1 votesAgreed, I think there should just be a systematic change to make ranged champs deal less damage to melees in the early game. Give ranged champs an inherent 36% reduced damage VS melee champions reduced by 2% per level on their non critical auto attacks.
A change like this would be massively benificial to melee tops, (most) assassin mids and melee supports. You may need to tune some champs after, but at least it makes Jayce and Kennen far less obnoxious.
Quepha3 votesEarly game power on Marksmen is highly dangerous as it puts power in a very simple play pattern during the stage of the game where engages are already at their simplest AND they are teamfight focused by the nature of their definition. This is all before even considering the way in which auto attacks scale with gold.
On the first point: Marksmen are champions that depend on their auto attacks which go through a very simple algorithm to fire a targeted bit of damage at an enemy every time the cooldown is up. There's little to no counterplay outside of "don't get in their range unless you can do more damage to them" and when the only ranges that matter in a given fight are one blue team member and one red team member, there's no real subtlety to how the fight is going to play out: either you would win a fight so you walk forward to try and kill them, or they would win a fight so you back off as far as needed and hope your jungle shows up to solve the problem. In a team fight scenario there are 5 danger ranges on each team all moving around to try and jockey for position so they can isolate an enemy team member under the focus of several friendly ranges while minimizing the enemy's ability to focus any friendlies.
Contrast this with mages who have dodge-able skillshots and decent cooldowns for important abilities. This creates subtleties to a fight even in 1v1 scenarios. Compare it with Tank vs. Tank matchups in top lane which just consist of long drawn-out slapfights that are considered a downer when they dominate the meta.
On the second point: Marksmen are ranged champions with sustained damage through repeated auto attacks that have no cost. If you change these things then we aren't talking about marksmen anymore (Graves and Jhin push the definition of "repeated," even their reload times make them feel like very un-marksman-ey marksmen). Being squishy is a logical weakness to counteract those strengths.
The basic setup for a team fight is ranged champions on each side with tanks in the middle. Ranged almost always means squishy so they don't want to be taking focus fire while the tank is seeking to disable enemy damage dealers or protect their own while hopefully surviving longer than the enemy tank. The tanks build a lot of durability so they can't be bursted down, so the total long-term dps of the team will determine who breaks the stalemate first, and Marksmen by their definition provide safe, high dps. Team fights are rarely that simple, but the result of that basic ARAM strategy is what determines which team has to make plays and picks to win and which team just has to react and maintain a net neutral to win.
A Doorknob2 votesProblem isn't the class, it's the company. All they would have to do is lower the damage across the charts. If not lower the dmg, raise the defensive base stats to match the power creeps that been happening so not all classes kill eachother within 3 seconds.
DaNinad2 votesIf they did do this, marksmen top lane would be very popular.
BIH Diamond1 votesThis. People would just take them top. The reason adcs are meta is because late game their range and ad can easily take objectives. If they had a strong early game too they would shit on top laners
doublelift fg1 votesNO NO NO
stop with marksmen, they're perfect not overpowered not underpowered, some are broken that's all you don't playADC , then let ADC mains play in peace their main
Arya Riven3 votesI don't tell non-Skirmishers they cannot contribute to conversation about Riven...
doublelift fg1 voteswhat you want to do is making marksmen mages but with autoattacks instead of spells
i say NO, i don't want twitch to no longer kill everyone in late game at the cost of having a better early game
DaNinad1 votes[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lGQ6g34s,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-01-27T23:34:49.650+0000)
what you want to do is making marksmen mages but with autoattacks instead of spells
i say NO, i don't want twitch to no longer kill everyone in late game at the cost of having a better early game
Doublelift wannabe
DunkinNoobs1 votesI hope you're ready to nerf armor across the board if this happens.
AirKingNeo1 votesWhat if marksmen didn't scale quadratically? Wouldn't that fix everything? They could have good earlygame and thus not be broken late game.
Golden Tager X1 votesI wish, then maybe Jax, Tryn, and Yi would have their rightful places as the "big 3" in lategame.
Tails90161 votesI don't play ranked, but i ADC's are strong almost every second in norms.
h5LYF41Lam1 voteswhat makes adc's special is not their damage or carry potential,the 1 thing adcs have that ap carries do not have is the ability to kill tanks,whether thats the hp from items that apcs get or lifesteal like adcs get,both carry roles have some sort of survivability.
MLDzXnRRR1 votesCaitlyn (a sniper) shooting like a machine gun lategame is just ridiculous. Make the class focused on taking the objectives from a safe distance, not on brainless rightclicking and hoping you won't get 1shotted by anything.
SzGamer2271 votesThen they would be ranged bruisers, and drive the standard top laner into extinction.
The only thing keeping marksmen from abusing top laners en masse is the fact that top laners can survive because of their high base stats. Give another class with superior innate poke similar base stats and you have Vayne shitstomping top laners, early, mid, and late game instead of just late game.
DrugsForRobots1 votesI would like to see Marksmen have more range and hit harder, but be much slower in their attacks. Tweak AS items to be more generalist and not so closely entwined with Marksmen.