Leona AP or AD?

Elite4Runner·Dec 13, 2019·1 votes·2,597 views

I think Leona is an interesting case. She definitely prioritizes defensive stats, but I think you generally end up with a little bit of offense as well. With the changes to support items, you have the option of Steel Shoulderguards or Relic Shield. I'm curious what the preference is. Her abilities have no actual AD scaling, but her AP scalings don't seem to matter so much because she doesn't really function as a burst damage support / tank. The utility from her abilities allow for her to cc and duel her target with basic attacks, which benefit from AD.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, ..

From my perspective, AP is best if your carry / team is able to burst your target down quickly and don't require drawn out fights. Otherwise, AD improves her ability to deal sustained damage through basic attacks over an extended fight.

17 Comments

CaptainAntiHerozDec 13, 20192 votes

item 3748 item 3078 item 3110 item 3053 item 3065 item 3111

ez win

Elite4RunnerDec 13, 20191 votes

So are you in favor of AD in every situation? Are there any situations where you think AP is better? Even as support, considering support budget?

ChaosReynDec 13, 20191 votes

I would start with relic shield, just for the early game AP difference. It's not much, but that pinch of AP in the super early game generally is more useful than a stronger auto in that scenario.

However, if you're not really going to the super tanky build and you feel you need power, I genrally say AD is the better way to go, as her entire kit synergizes better with it.

Let's see...my usual is usually about like this (not in order here): item 3858 item 3107 item 3190 item 3800 item 3143 item 3111 and I usually rush the redemption then start going for all the other utility stuff. It's, as you can tell, very much utility oriented, and it has more actives than most people like to play with, but all those actives give me tons of answers, and make both me and my team pretty hard to peel and harder to full-burst. In addition, this also utilizes her shield since it scales off the armor and MR you have, and though this doesn't give as much flat hp, it makes you a demon while your W is up.

A variant with less actives is to go for something like: item 3858 item 3742 item 3083 item 3190 item 3143 item 3111 This trades a good amount of your actives for more hp. This doesn't have as much straight up MR and armor...but you dont have to back between fights, your locket gives stronger shields, and you can run people down with DMP for a small extra damage burst, and essentially make sure you're the target of the turn and burn instead of your team...as long as you dont completely leave them behind.

I've also experimented with a couple other variants too. Though I will leave them out for the moment cause a lot of them aren't "meta" enough (ex: one of them is "if your bot lane is playing Veigar, or some other AP") or specifically made for very specific situations (ex. one of them is "I'm playing to specifically counter champion x...which is usually something like Blitzcrank...and I need to have tech for that so that if my ally or myself get hooked, we're not instantly fucked") and I'd pretty much tell you that in 9/10 cases, you want to go with AD over AP, if you want to go with a damage route. AP firstly will fall off really fast, and secondly isn't really good for Leona in terms of overall damage, since she more or less functions like a fighter in that case - you only have a way into the fight, not a way out, so you should pretty much expect a sustained fight.

I will leave it by saying that AntiHeroz build is a very strong AD variant, that you could probably take top lane. I would personally sub out Visage for Abyssal Mask though, since you dont really have a lot of hp gain (just runes, pots and allies) and the Abyssal gives you (and your allies too) just a little extra kick with abilities. I dont necessarily think your own are enough to matter, but the aura helps in teamfights more than visage helps you...well, pretty much ever.

CaptainAntiHerozDec 13, 20191 votes

If im supporting I take item 3858 simply because all my abilities are ap including my passive, but if i ever actually build damage its ad bruiser because AP leona isn't good enough especially considering if you want an ap tanky champ you just go THE ROCK Malphite and do better than leona would

Modnar EromDec 13, 20191 votes

AD is generally too expensive as support (especially these days). If you are way ahead, you can afford it, but if you are way ahead you can just style on them regardless of build. Or if you are playing leona in a solo lane / jungle, AD is good.

AP is also not great unless vs a bunch of squishies. Against tanks or bruisers, you just become a CC bot (and there are better choices at that point).

If you want to have some kill potential vs squishies, just go iceborn into tank. If it goes lategame, and you have the cash and really feel like you need the extra damage, then titanic.

Warmogs is super useful if you don't have Ocean. Allows you to initiate tower dives / fights, back out, and regen back to full.

HideSideDec 13, 20191 votes

Leona deserves spells update, has so big unused potential she can become trough rework.

Linna ExcelDec 13, 20191 votes

I kind of wish riot would give her AD scalings on her Q and E at least. Maybe even her passive.

Since we aren't talking about aram specifically and I'm assuming you are talking about support leona instead of jungle/top, buying damage for her is rough. TF gives her a lot of stats and the passives work well with her, but it's too expensive for a support. People get an Iceborn early instead, which I understand, but you really shouldn't be getting armor/mr before getting HP.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/leona

Generally speaking, buying offensive items at all seems to hurt her, or else they aren't popular enough to really talk about. Statistically only BC,TF, and frozen mallet have a good winrate on her. She really needs to buy beef and doesn't have the income to go damage.

Sire HippingtonDec 13, 20192 votes

i think the point is more that EVERY support item gives a bit ad or ap right now, and he wants to know if ad or ap is better.

Linna ExcelDec 13, 20191 votes

Statistically speaking, item 3854 is a little better than item 3858 but not by that much.

Ariel the CruelDec 14, 20191 votes

Her Q has 200% AD scaling if you take into account the double AA reset.

Darkdemon653Dec 13, 20191 votes

Don't build offense on Leona. If you have to do it to satisfy some primal urge, don't go beyond Frozen Fist.

Sire HippingtonDec 13, 20191 votes

Maybe i'm a bit biased from playing toplane leona, but for me it's 100% AD. Sure, she doesn't have direct ad-scaleings, but her AP scaleings are REALLY low aswell, and what most people don't know is that her Q doesn't just reset her AA once, but actually twice(if you rightclick your target imideatly after the shield bash, you will get another AA-reset for a quick triple hit). This means she actually has a high ad/on-hit ratio on that Q if fully used. Also, for early bot fights, you rarlly have full 100-0 bursts, most fights are a bit more scrappy, and with her high CDs, ad has just sooo much more value in extendet fights

Also, some quick math on her burst if we asume you land E, follow with AA-q-AA and then get another AA of thx to the stun. This would mean her combo has a total ad and on-hit ratio of 4.0 The total AP ratio of her q+w+e+ is 1.1, and unless you use E befor the engage(whiich usually is a stupid idea cause it warns your opponents that you are looking for an engage) you will have 0.4 of that ratio only after 3 sec dealay, which means you could add in another ~2-3 AAs to increase the total ad-ratio to 6-7

If we are very generous to AP, we throw in the ult and say you only get off 6 AAs in the fight, which makes it a 6.0 ad ratio vs 1.9 AP Now if we look at the support items, it's 24 ad vs 40AP, so the AD-one gives 144 damage to the all-in while the AP one only adds 76, so the ad one is nearly twice as much damage! Now there are some other advantages for AP as it's magic damage and mr overall is lower than armor, and it's on aoe. However, your goal usually is to lock down and burst a priority target, so the aoe part isn't a big deal, and AD also does allot more after your combo is on CD, especially since the only low CD skill has basically a 2.0 ad ratio thx to the resets.

Also, if you look for an damage option as support, there are 3 items to look at: item 3025 , good defense and utillity, but also nice extra damage on the Qs for a reasonable price(rather high end for support, but not totally out of reach) item 3050 , lots of damage potential and extra cc for lowish costs, but requires your carry to actually follow up on your engage, so not always usefull in soloQ item 3001 , if you have solid magic damage followup from your team, the 15% amp is massive. However, the high cost means it's only a good option if fed or if your team has high magic damge, aswell as your opponents so you also get high value from the MR Fun fact: the 15% amp gives leonas combo upt to 120damage from base damages alone, without any passive procs(though E and sometimes ult usually hit outside the aoe) which equals 60 APfor her

Skia AsteriDec 14, 20191 votes

https://lolalytics.com/lol/leona/?lane=support

Leona is SO HOTDec 14, 20191 votes

if you are playing support then you should stick to the AD relic + general support items + general tank items the reason why you should pick AD relic over AP is because her AP ratios are bad and you wont gain any noticeable dmg unless you build full AP leona is an early game champ and AD gives her the advantage she needs in that stage of the game

but if you are going to play her mid/jungle/top do you want to play full AP/AD or play as a bruiser ? its up to you

Ariel the CruelDec 14, 20191 votes

In terms of damage output, AP is more valuable in team fights if you can AoE multiple targets. Otherwise, AD is better since it is available more consistently (Q resets) and helps push structures.

If you'll pardon the dust, I actually calculated it out a few seasons ago. Though as for current game state, I haven't really played rift in a long time. (>_>)