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How do you lane against Poppy?

Hyrum Graff··4 votes·3,265 views

edit: for people who are skimming, this is a legit question. I'm sure I just don't understand how I am supposed to do it, and so I'm looking for advice.

I was playing Annie top today, and though I maintained a sizable cs advantage over poppy in the first ~10 minutes (85 to 55), I was on the back foot the entirety of laning (low, just sneaking in cs where I could). After the first back, she was able to zone me off the minion wave and eventually, while pushing me under tower, harass me enough that she could dive and kill me.

**I felt helpless. **

I couldn't trade with her because of the shield, and if I tried to step on it she'd just Q me and win the trade anyway, despite never hitting a q2. Normally I'd just push her under tower since she has no waveclear, and rely on minion aggro to win trades if she tries to zone me off the wave, but she seemed to take no damage from minions, and was also tanky enough that I'd run oom before she'd get low, so there was no sense in harassing her. In short, she ended up getting really fed and carrying the game.

Obviously, if a stomp like this happens, there's a couple possible causes:

  1. The enemy is significantly better than I am.
  • I don't think this is true, as I dodged every Q2 and several Q1's, and didn't really feel outplayed at any point in lane, just out-statted.
  1. The champion is OP.
  • This might be true, but I haven't seen others complain about it and according to champion.gg has a surprisingly low 40% winrate.
  1. I don't know how to play against the champ.

I'm going to go with option 3.

Here is the link to the game, if any of you want to try to analyze it. I won't pretend I didn't screw up later too, but that doesn't change how the lane felt.

As an aside, I may be salty, but I think it's complete BS that poppy's passive applies the MELEE iceborn slow when it's a RANGED attack. I'd rather see that removed and poppy buffed elsewhere, than have this annoying mechanic in the game, #clarity.

34 Comments

Bergk10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9VHrgLj,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-13T18:01:59.741+0000)

I was playing Annie top

well there's your first problem ;)

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

well there's your first problem ;)

I'm pretty successful as Annie top. I run tele/flash with Ionian, distortion, and summoner spell cdr mastery for flash-tibbers on a 191 second cooldown. In other matchups, when I lose, I know it's because I messed up or got outplayed. This felt different, so I assume I don't understand how I am supposed to play the matchup.

Dasdi961 votes

{quoted}

well there's your first problem ;)

Annie top lane is actually legit, she has very decent farming from range, and doesn't have to go full ap to be a threat.

CreationFlaw4 votes

Walk in circles and don't play annie top. If you dodge the Q, she basically just has auto attacks.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Walk in circles and don't play annie top. If you dodge the Q, she basically just has auto attacks.

Her AA > my spells. She could reliably aa me because she started boots 4 where I had a dorans ring. It's possible I didn't aa her enough and that if I had I could have traded better.

CoolKnightST3 votes

Your first mistake is playing Annie top in the first place. You can win that lane by pushing poppy under turret but in toplane you get punished to hard for that. It's not even that annie is that bad against poppy.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Your first mistake is playing Annie top in the first place. You can win that lane by pushing poppy under turret but in toplane you get punished to hard for that. It's not even that annie is that bad against poppy.

As stated in the OP, I could not do this because then poppy would stand between me and the minion wave and force unfavorable trades.

It's also worth mentioning that I started doran's ring, but she started boots 4, so she was able to catch me if I was pushed too far.

I'll also head off the obvious response, "just stun her and walk away."

  1. It's hard to charge a stun if you can't cs without poppy trying to trade. She did this ALL the time which is why she was down 30 cs at the 10 minute mark.
  2. I do this. She returns to csing. The second I come back to cs again, she runs at me again. I have no stun up.
CoolKnightST1 votes

Poppy is heavy gated by cooldowns. If she trades in minion waves that early in the game. She will lose that trade when you play it correctly. Her main damage comes from her Q what can be dodged pretty easy and starting W is the only way she could outrun you. She would never be able to combo you pre level 2:

  • If she starts Q you could simply zone & kite her
  • If she starts W with boots she would be able to trade a little bit more on you. Stil kit back
  • If she starts E just keep an eye on nearby terrain

Her first powerspike is when she has a rank in both her Q & her E. With that combo she can oneshot someone. That's the moment she will try to all-in you. Respect it & she won't find a all-in chance again.

Secondly I don't think you known how Annie works. If she zones you still farm with Q. You biggest mistake is probaly that you waist cs for keeping your stun up.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Poppy is heavy gated by cooldowns. If she trades in minion waves that early in the game. She will lose that trade when you play it correctly. Her main damage comes from her Q what can be dodged pretty easy and starting W is the only way she could outrun you. She would never be able to combo you pre level 2:

  • If she starts Q you could simply zone & kite her
  • If she starts W with boots she would be able to trade a little bit more on you. Stil kit back
  • If she starts E just keep an eye on nearby terrain

Her first powerspike is when she has a rank in both her Q & her E. With that combo she can oneshot someone. That's the moment she will try to all-in you. Respect it & she won't find a all-in chance again.

First off, thank you for this. This is actual advice, unlike most of the thread

Secondly I don't think you known how Annie works. If she zones you still farm with Q. You biggest mistake is probaly that you waist cs for keeping your stun up.

I assure you, my (lack of) knowledge of how new poppy works was the problem in this matchup.

http://i.imgur.com/QRPugah.png

Death by Glamour2 votes

Some one similarly tanky that can do decent damage

Aka another juggernaut. Out of interest how does irelia or olaf do va her

l Helios l1 votes

Olaf would be a decent pick. W means nothing to him and he can outdamage her because of his high base ad and atk spd. Irelia idk. Her Q can be negated but Irelia might work.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9VHrgLj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-13T18:44:24.130+0000)

Some one similarly tanky that can do decent damage

Aka another juggernaut. Out of interest how does irelia or olaf do va her

That's not the point. Riot has said multiple times, "Pick a different champion" is not an acceptable answer to "What can I do vs champion X?"

Death by Glamour1 votes

Yet there are metas dedicated to picking certain types of champions.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9VHrgLj,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2015-12-13T23:38:55.598+0000)

Yet there are metas dedicated to picking certain types of champions.

Again, this is almost entirely for macro reasons, not 1v1 performance.

l Helios l2 votes

As an aside, I may be salty, but I think it's complete BS that poppy's passive applies the MELEE iceborn slow when it's a RANGED attack. I'd rather see that removed and poppy buffed elsewhere, than have this annoying mechanic in the game, #clarity.

Well, Ezreal does the same thing with his autoattacks. It's treated as a sheen proc so ranged vs. melee is irrelevant.

Don't be deceived by win rates. She just came out so it will be very low until people get use to her. Focus more on ban rates and general lane matchups starting after next patch. That will give you some indicators to if she is "too strong."

Stay away from walls. Period.

Don't play Annie top.

If she hits you with a Q, she has no more trade potential. Just hit her back after you dodge the Q detonate. If you don't at least try to trade back, you lose every time.

Give me an hour or two and I'll review the game.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Well, Ezreal does the same thing with his autoattacks. It's treated as a sheen proc so ranged vs. melee is irrelevant.

Iceborn Gauntlet in particular has two different procs. Melee gets a significantly larger slow field.

Don't be deceived by win rates. She just came out so it will be very low until people get use to her. Focus more on ban rates and general lane matchups starting after next patch. That will give you some indicators to if she is "too strong."

Agreed, although ban rates also have to do with what's popular, frustrating, etc. I decided not to include any of that in the original post for the sake of brevity.

Stay away from walls. Period.

I did. I believe I got wall stunned once in the entire game and it was on my outer turret, 2nd death under turret, first solo kill on me.

Don't play Annie top.

Why not? I've found it to work well in the past.

Usually the reasons people suggest not playing Annie top are:

  1. Vulnerable to ganks
  2. Team comp

It has nothing to do with her 1v1 ability. A poppy mid would have done a similar thing to me, thought probably not quite as bad.

If she hits you with a Q, she has no more trade potential. Just hit her back after you dodge the Q detonate. If you don't at least try to trade back, you lose every time.

She started boots 4. Her trade potential was AA's.

Give me an hour or two and I'll review the game.

ok.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Well, Ezreal does the same thing with his autoattacks. It's treated as a sheen proc so ranged vs. melee is irrelevant.

As an aside, I may be salty, but I think it's complete BS that poppy's passive applies the MELEE iceborn slow when it's a RANGED attack. I'd rather see that removed and poppy buffed elsewhere, than have this annoying mechanic in the game, #clarity.

Um, unless this is a hidden mechanic that I don't know about. That distinction got removed. Iceborn Gauntlets AoE size now scales with bonus Armor. without bearing on whether your melee or ranged.

l Helios l1 votes

Um, unless this is a hidden mechanic that I don't know about. That distinction got removed. Iceborn Gauntlets AoE size now scales with bonus Armor. without bearing on whether your melee or ranged.

He's right. The radius will be at least like 200 based on the armor the iceborn gives in itself.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

shes hard to lane against. because of her Q and her passive. shes not lane bully status but close to there

Mirage Seraph1 votes

I've been playing a LOT of Poppy since the rework so I think I have a general idea of her weaknesses.

First, she relies on getting the wall stun to get kills fairly heavily, particularly early on. And she needs the shield to win trades.

So thankfully for you, you only have to do one thing to counter both of these matters. Don't bother stepping on the shield, it puts you next to a wall, instead poke Poppy as she goes to pick it up since it will usually end on your side of the minions, then wait for the shield to expire and get some damage in.

What else is there to say? Pay attention to her build. People are still learning her so every Poppy is going to be different, you're gonna have Poppies going damage, Poppies going full tank, and then Poppies like me going Tanky On Hit (Titanic/Deadman/Iceborn) so just be aware of what you're fighting.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

The same way you beat poppy before rework, it's not that difficult tbh. She's the same she wants to harass you with Q and E.

Death by Glamour1 votes

Old poppy would go oom after 2 or 3 rotations of harass, new one doesnt

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Stay away from a walls and avoid 2nd part of Q.........

All of her kit is 2part

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

I would not be having all these problems all the time if I were to pick a legit top laner.

As an aside, I may be salty, but I think it's complete BS that poppy's passive applies the MELEE iceborn slow when it's a RANGED attack. I'd rather see that removed and poppy buffed elsewhere, than have this annoying mechanic in the game, #clarity.

Very ironic when you choose to play a 100% range top lane championAnnie

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

I would not be having all these problems all the time if I were to pick a legit top laner.

I've had good success with Annie top ion nearly every other matchup.

Very ironic when you choose to play a 100% range top lane championAnnie

I don't understand. I don't mind her ability to harass from range. I mind that it is a ranged autoattack that applies a slow field that is supposed to be melee only.

It'd be like if her passive applied a hydra proc, which I'm going to have to test now to see if it does.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l9VHrgLj,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-12-14T03:26:13.902+0000)

I've had good success with Annie top ion nearly every other matchup.

Then it's not your rights to complain when Poppy ruined your matchup. Poppy's typically an all-in type of champion. She will hit W, rams you into a wall with her E, and bash you even more with her Q. Due to a pick like Annie, you will pretty much get rekt.

I don't understand. I don't mind her ability to harass from range. I mind that it is a ranged autoattack that applies a slow field that is supposed to be melee only.

It'd be like if her passive applied a hydra proc, which I'm going to have to test now to see if it does.

Gnar Gets to be both range & melee, can be range for about 1 minute & has a manaless range poke with his Q, but woah woah WOAH! I guess Poppy is clearly the problem.....[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Then it's not your rights to complain when Poppy ruined your matchup. Poppy's typically an all-in type of champion. She will hit W, rams you into a wall with her E, and bash you even more with her Q. Due to a pick like Annie, you will pretty much get rekt.

Gnar Gets to be both range & melee, can be range for about 1 minute & has a manaless range poke with his Q, but woah woah WOAH! I guess Poppy is clearly the problem.....[slayer-jinx-unamused]

You're completely missing the point. I never said poppy was OP. I said I don't know how to play against her and asked for advice. It appears nobody is able to give me any :(

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

See her passive at the ready? Go into a brush & let her waste it on a minion.

See her using that Range AA on a minion? Find the time to step on the shield.

Poppy picked up her shield? Stay off a safe distance til the duration wears off.

Ever played against a Vayne before? Good. So you should know not to position yourself near walls.

Poppy landed her Q? Go sideways to avoid the 2nd blast.

See her popping her W? High chance that she either wants to engage on you, or her jungler is nearby.

Do note that these tips work efficiently on legit top laners who either has a proper lane sustain & mobility, or just being tanks like Sion.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

See her passive at the ready? Go into a brush & let her waste it on a minion.

This was my first time playing against poppy top. What's the visual for this?

See her using that Range AA on a minion? Find the time to step on the shield.

Tried this, it let her set up free Q's. The only time I was able to deny the shield was when I had a stun up to stop her from going in to trade.

Poppy picked up her shield? Stay off a safe distance til the duration wears off.

Ever played against a Vayne before? Good. So you should know not to position yourself near walls.

Correct. I only got stunned once, and it was against my tower.

Poppy landed her Q? Go sideways to avoid the 2nd blast.

Did this, she wasn't able to hit many Q2s. The problem was mostly

Do note that these tips work efficiently on legit top laners who either has a proper lane sustain & mobility, or just being tanks like Sion.

In my experience, Annie is a pretty legit top laner.

http://i.imgur.com/QRPugah.png

Probably only 2-3 of those games are annie support. The rest are probably 1/3 mid, 2/3 top.

Thank you for giving actual advice.

Packun Flower1 votes

As a Poppy main here is some advice I can give.

  1. memorize her passive cool down, early game she relies on this for harass, CS and her shield, if you can break the shield when she throws it and know the Cd of her passive she's very fragile to harass and poke while it's on CD.

  2. Mobility is a good thing, dodging her Q is both easy and hard. Her Q hits you twice and its the second hit that has a lot of people confused on where the damage if coming from. Its not hard for Poppy to land a Q on an enemy but its getting the second hit on it off that's a challenge for her, which brings me to number 3.

  3. Stay away from the walls. Walls are so dangerous when laning against a Poppy. Stunning you into a wall is how she gets the full burst of her Q off. It works exactly like Vayne's condemn in every way, learn the mechanics and the position of it, but most importantly stay away from the walls.

and finally 4) Don't Dash into her, if your playing Tryn of Lee Sin or some other champ with a Dash, don;t rely on it, Poppy's W stops your dash and returns damage on it by quite a bit, don;t rely on it as an escape either because she can stop it if your running from her as well. Try to bait it, when its on CD Poppy can be harassed quite easily.

Optional instant win lane vs Poppy) Use vayne, shes already broken but Poppy can;t do anything against her. Ranged, True damage and a wall stun to counter a wall stun, there is nothing Poppy can do against this champ, just take her top and destroy Poppy with her.

PentaDenier1 votes

I played Shyvana against a Poppy top recently and was pretty easy to take both top lane towers and not lose mine while outfarming her also. Neither of us died except later in teamfights but I wasn't really trying to kill her either, I didn't need to I just need to farm minions and push to the tower and for her to get bullied out of the lane while trying to stop me. I built full tank and could pretty much ignore her damage while my abilities still did enough to bully her out of lane whenever she tried to leave the tower.

Lost R1 votes

I don't lane against Poppy. I **AM **the Poppy!

The Whamboozler1 votes

I've been playing a LOT of poppy, but mostly in the jungle.... but here's my advice.

Annie top was a bad choice because it negates one of the best tricks to use on Poppy.... pushing her tower. She has sub-par waveclear and she loses a lot of gold this way. Annie however is painfully vulnerable to ganks if she does this. So you lost the chance to take advantage of one of her weak spots.

Her shield appears on her arm when it's ready to throw. It's glowly and transparent but it's there. If she has it up, she can thwack you pretty hard with it and possibly set herself up for a E - Q combo. This is BAD because her E - Q hurts like hell. If she wall-checks you she can kill you. Avoid walls and avoid letting her toss that shield at you. She'll toss it at minions to last-hit so unless she farms entirely with he Q (awkward to time AND it will send her oom fast) she'll have to throw it or waste CS.

When her shield is thrown you can harass her. Again, stay away from walls, but poke her with autos and your stun. Again, this works better on champs NOT named Annie. Burly melee types can dash in and out-trade her without her passive shield. All-in champs can use this to try and kill her... though she's slippery and naturally tanky. You can step in as annie but she might win the trade if she lands E -Q unless you get her with a lot of minion aggro or something. I'd say to watch her. If she goes to pick up her shield, land a stun on her and a quick auto or two then bail. Poppy has poor sustain. Catch her before she gets her shield's... um... shield, and she'll get worn down.

But it's still a poor match up. She's a tank. She's resistant to burst. You're all burst. If you hold onto stun you can stop her from KILLING you, but she'll eventually get strong enough to tower dive you. If you're lucky you can stun her under tower and kill her, but moe likely she'd just shove you under tower and let you lose a ton of CS farming with your crappy AA's.

Poppy is strong... to the point of being a bully... but only to people who lack a few things. Big meaty bruisers can usually just wreck her if she goes in on them. Darius eats poppy alive in lane. Olaf and Renekton do all right as well. (Provided they don't let her wall-stun them. That brutalizes EVERYONE) Ranged champs who can kite well due to mobility aren't as ideal but they can manage against her. You need poke AND either self-peel or an escape because Poppy WILL inevitably get on you. Again, avoid the wall stun and when she comes on you... back out. She can now do NOTHING to you but eat ranged poke or flee. Quinn poops on poopy, as can a well played vayne or kennen. This route is risky though, since poppy is good at mashing squishy champs if they mess up and let her get on them.

So yeah, in short... don't pick Annie top! Not vs poppy. Annie top can't abuse ANY of poppy's weak points and poppy handles abusing annie's weaknesses VERY well. Her passive proccing Iceborn well isn't a huge deal. GP can do that too. The problem was you played a champ with no skills of merit useable from outside the range of her shield throw and ALSO one who couldn't dash away despite the slow or 1v1 her if she dove you. You were also squishy for a top laner so she probably blew you up pretty quickly.

I'm all for meta-breaking but in this case the majority is right. You lost because you went Annie top.

Hollabakatchya1 votes

Early game I've had some success playing Zed into her top lane. If you save your W for when she wants to dash onto you, you should win every single trade - slow with your E, hit your Q, and the most she'll be able to do is hit you with her buckler. Once she gets tanky though you could have problems.

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