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garen still is too much to handle

Hahahahyena··4 votes·1,025 views

garen is WAY too easy to play in lane and just ruins it for his enemy laner. last game my gp literally tried farming under tower but kept getting dove under tower and garen just left unscathed. garen has way too many protections and when it comes to teamfights hes impossible to kill. no matter how much damage garen takes you literally cant kill him. I was the most fed on my team and i couldn't even dent his health and i was syndra. garen dived GP so many times he made him go ap and run it down mid and i dont blame him, garen is bullshit that needs to be nerfed because tanks shouldnt be able to do damage. "but garen isnt a tnak he a jugger-' no if a champ runs with item 3742 item 3143 item 3065 item 3068 item 3075 item 3083 with 1 damage item who can withstand a nuclear strike they are a TANK whether you accept that fact or not it doesnt matter, they are still a TANK. "what if you just cc-" no that doesnt work either because my team peppered him with my cc and he still got at least a double kill because GUESS WHAT he isnt the only thing to worry about. give him 1 cc he waits it out then demolishes, give him all your cc he waits it out and his team aces yours. he cant be killed and you can definately kill you which is utter bullshit now either nerf his protections or nerf his damage because he should NOT have both he should NOT be able to take a nuclear strike and double kill the team while his team takes care of the rest he should NOT be able to tower dive early levels and run away with at least half health he should NOT take all the cc from a team then be able to run circles around the entire enemy team he needs to be_ nerfed_

22 Comments

Ralanr6 votes

He's not a tank. His build doesn't determine that. I'm sorry you cannot accept that.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

He's not a tank. His build doesn't determine that. I'm sorry you cannot accept that.

But unless youre the villain, he sure feels like a CC-less tank with just a wee bit more damage than usual. The guy is in a shit state right now.

Papa Slothy6 votes

he doesn't need nerfs tho

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

You mentioned a 6 item build, none of which are damage items. He has no boots so he is literally the slowest Juggernaut in the game, and he will be "tanky" but he won't be going anywhere very fast.

Sorry dude (or lady), but I play Garen, and if I built that like that people would walk literally around me to murder my carries because I do no damage.

If you're not the villain, Garen can't 100-0 you with a combo, especially with that build. (The only exception I can think of is of you're a squishy, but even then they can easily whoop him if they play it smart)

What was your build? I can Garen -Tee you that I can give you a way to shut down a Garen at any point in the game no matter how fed he is. (It's a sad truth but it is ridiculously easy.)

He needs items to do damage, most Garens build Black cleaver then tank. With a build like you mentioned above He has a crap load of armor sure, but you are Syndra, one of the most hard hitting burst mages. His armor won't save him from you.

Hahahahyena1 votes

{quoted}

You mentioned a 6 item build, none of which are damage items. He has no boots so he is literally the slowest Juggernaut in the game, and he will be "tanky" but he won't be going anywhere very fast.

Sorry dude (or lady), but I play Garen, and if I built that like that people would walk literally around me to murder my carries because I do no damage.

If you're not the villain, Garen can't 100-0 you with a combo, especially with that build. (The only exception I can think of is of you're a squishy, but even then they can easily whoop him if they play it smart)

What was your build? I can Garen -Tee you that I can give you a way to shut down a Garen at any point in the game no matter how fed he is. (It's a sad truth but it is ridiculously easy.)

He needs items to do damage, most Garens build Black cleaver then tank. With a build like you mentioned above He has a crap load of armor sure, but you are Syndra, one of the most hard hitting burst mages. His armor won't save him from you.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2286114288/215233487?tab=overview this is the game that i was talking about. no matter how much i did he could laugh it off and kill everyone. and saying he doesnt move fast lol thats funny, i didnt know him being able to run circles around anyone in the game is considered slow and those 6 items arent a game build i was saying that if a champ builds those to withstand literally any amount of damage is a tank, of course theyd have to replace two with boots and a damage item

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Ahhh, it all makes sense now. Let me break it down for you. Here is why Garen roflstomped your team.

  1. He was super fed.

It doesn't matter how bad a champion is, if they are fed (has more gold, has better items, level advantage) then you CANNOT beat them 1v1, especially if they build tanky. This means that he could build a crap load of armor (or in this case, effective health and MR) since the Gnagplank he was stomping was building AP for some reason :/

  1. He was super sticky because of his build.

Boots of swiftness + his Q means that he can catch up to you very easily. Once he catches you, AAs with Frozen mallet means that you are not getting away from him. (Frozen mallet is and AD item by the way, giving him attack damage, so it isn't just a tank item.)

Boots of swiftness are a niche build because the slow reduction helps with him being kited. You built Rylais, but perhaps you didn't kite effectively, or he bush jumped you. More on that later.

  1. You were the only well performing member on your team, so you were probably the villain often.

Being the Villain makes Garen's AAs and E do bonus max health true damage. This is why it seems like he can build no damage items and still whoop you.

  1. You had a lot of magic pen, but not enough raw AP.

Think about it, a small dagger might pierce armor, but it won't hurt as much as a bludgeon against armor. Magic pen isn't enough, you need Raw AP, you were fed too, consider a Deathcap instead of Abbyssal Scepter.

  1. Your CS is really good. Garen's was worse but he compensated by kills.

If your team played safe the moment they knew that Garen was fed, and if Gragas camped top to help shut down Garen earlier, then his lack of income through CS would come back to bite him.

  1. His team had good enagage/lots of CC.

Sol's Q can stun a team, Blitz can make picks on squishys and drag them into his team to get them murdered. Garen's weaknesses are pretty well addressed in his team comp. The Varus did pretty good to. I bet he used his ult to effectively tie up your team so they couldn't run.

  1. Your team lacks effective CC.

Nami's is situational, Jhin's is situational, Gragas has a stun so that's good. You have a pretty iffy stun you have to prep for. Basically you didn't have the right tools to stop Garen when he was on his rampage, explaining why he went for Swifties instead of Mercury's Treads for the tenacity he would have needed if your team had more stuns.

  1. Your team had no tanks save Gragas, so you had no frontline to peel off Garen or his team.

Kinda self explanatory here, you need a frontline of some kind, and only Gragas could do the job. I don't know what Gangplank was doing, but he can't frontline with that build. (Nor can he normally , but if he built AD his barrels would do some serious hurting to Garen, since the barrel explosions ignore 40% of armor.)

So that's the gist of it. You were just stuck facing a fed Garen with no tools available to shut him down. Your Rylais could have helped, but that would require good kiting. If you guys were being killed in teamfights a lot, you might want to consider the fed Varus's damage as well. A lot of people underestimate his Q damage.

If there is anything else I can add, feel free to let me know. I'm always ready to dispel the myth that Garen is unstoppable. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Hahahahyena1 votes

{quoted}

Ahhh, it all makes sense now. Let me break it down for you. Here is why Garen roflstomped your team.

  1. He was super fed.

It doesn't matter how bad a champion is, if they are fed (has more gold, has better items, level advantage) then you CANNOT beat them 1v1, especially if they build tanky. This means that he could build a crap load of armor (or in this case, effective health and MR) since the Gnagplank he was stomping was building AP for some reason :/

  1. He was super sticky because of his build.

Boots of swiftness + his Q means that he can catch up to you very easily. Once he catches you, AAs with Frozen mallet means that you are not getting away from him. (Frozen mallet is and AD item by the way, giving him attack damage, so it isn't just a tank item.)

Boots of swiftness are a niche build because the slow reduction helps with him being kited. You built Rylais, but perhaps you didn't kite effectively, or he bush jumped you. More on that later.

  1. You were the only well performing member on your team, so you were probably the villain often.

Being the Villain makes Garen's AAs and E do bonus max health true damage. This is why it seems like he can build no damage items and still whoop you.

  1. You had a lot of magic pen, but not enough raw AP.

Think about it, a small dagger might pierce armor, but it won't hurt as much as a bludgeon against armor. Magic pen isn't enough, you need Raw AP, you were fed too, consider a Deathcap instead of Abbyssal Scepter.

  1. Your CS is really good. Garen's was worse but he compensated by kills.

If your team played safe the moment they knew that Garen was fed, and if Gragas camped top to help shut down Garen earlier, then his lack of income through CS would come back to bite him.

  1. His team had good enagage/lots of CC.

Sol's Q can stun a team, Blitz can make picks on squishys and drag them into his team to get them murdered. Garen's weaknesses are pretty well addressed in his team comp. The Varus did pretty good to. I bet he used his ult to effectively tie up your team so they couldn't run.

  1. Your team lacks effective CC.

Nami's is situational, Jhin's is situational, Gragas has a stun so that's good. You have a pretty iffy stun you have to prep for. Basically you didn't have the right tools to stop Garen when he was on his rampage, explaining why he went for Swifties instead of Mercury's Treads for the tenacity he would have needed if your team had more stuns.

  1. Your team had no tanks save Gragas, so you had no frontline to peel off Garen or his team.

Kinda self explanatory here, you need a frontline of some kind, and only Gragas could do the job. I don't know what Gangplank was doing, but he can't frontline with that build. (Nor can he normally , but if he built AD his barrels would do some serious hurting to Garen, since the barrel explosions ignore 40% of armor.)

So that's the gist of it. You were just stuck facing a fed Garen with no tools available to shut him down. Your Rylais could have helped, but that would require good kiting. If you guys were being killed in teamfights a lot, you might want to consider the fed Varus's damage as well. A lot of people underestimate his Q damage.

If there is anything else I can add, feel free to let me know. I'm always ready to dispel the myth that Garen is unstoppable. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ok first thing to clarify, garen never killed me by himself, he either killed me by ksing, while i got bliztcranked, or ulted me while i was low and in the middle of their entire team, just to point that out.

thats what i mean when he isnt the only one to worry about, everyone think garen is easy when he is alone but because this game has 5 people on each team he just smashes everyone together and we cant focus him because there is already too much to focus, i mean look at varus, he should be priority not the fucking tank

then nami did land her stuns on him almost all the time but that didnt stop him, i wish i could show you the game but there isnt any replay that i know of

tanks wouldnt have mattered since he could just waltz into the backline while our tank is getting his ass handed to him by our varus or sol and whatnot

and it isnt a myth that garen is unstoppable, its a fact, unless his team doesnt know how to group he will just demolish games

Ralanr1 votes

If you don't know how to play against a champion then of course you're not going to do well.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

There's a really nifty site called replay.gg, and by renaming one of your rune pages temporarily it can sign up your summoner name and then start "recording" all your future matches Spectator style.

And you were right, you should have focused the Varus. Garen Looked like a threat so you focused him, which is just what a tanky dude wants. For you to waste your spells on him, then get killed by the real threats that were behind him. He KSed a lot it seems, blitz fed him and Varus kills outside laning, which makes sense because Garen likely only got solo kills off of Gangplank.

So next time ignore (I know it sounds crazy but trust me, if he isn't building damage aside from a BLack Cleaver, than you can afford to leave him be.)

Also spread out, flank them. Garen would then have to chase you all down, running every which way and could only realistically catch one of you. Unless of course Blitz grabs one of you. But split with purpose, don't just try to surround them because then blitz can make easy grabs.

Split and flank with the purpose of murdering Varus. If you can get close enough a Q>E stun plus R will undoubtedly murder him. After he's gone take out Sol. Then you can collapse on the others.

Hahahahyena1 votes

{quoted}

There's a really nifty site called replay.gg, and by renaming one of your rune pages temporarily it can sign up your summoner name and then start "recording" all your future matches Spectator style.

And you were right, you should have focused the Varus. Garen Looked like a threat so you focused him, which is just what a tanky dude wants. For you to waste your spells on him, then get killed by the real threats that were behind him. He KSed a lot it seems, blitz fed him and Varus kills outside laning, which makes sense because Garen likely only got solo kills off of Gangplank.

So next time ignore (I know it sounds crazy but trust me, if he isn't building damage aside from a BLack Cleaver, than you can afford to leave him be.)

Also spread out, flank them. Garen would then have to chase you all down, running every which way and could only realistically catch one of you. Unless of course Blitz grabs one of you. But split with purpose, don't just try to surround them because then blitz can make easy grabs.

Split and flank with the purpose of murdering Varus. If you can get close enough a Q>E stun plus R will undoubtedly murder him. After he's gone take out Sol. Then you can collapse on the others.

i didnt know about replay.gg, thanks

we tried to ignore garen but guess what he got a double and we tried to focus garen and surprise surprise he kills one and varus cleans up the rest. garen is bullshit

spread out so garen can pick us off one by one on a side and varus killing us on the other?

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Okay, I'll try to be a little more specific.

  1. Their Eve is pretty much out of the game, she looks like she's in a pretty bad spot KDAwise. So she probably doesn't contribute much to teamfights. So it's a 5v4, but note she will come in to try to murder low health people that try to run.

  2. You had a Gragas. He should have used his ult to split up their team. How? Simple. If he had thown his ult right behind their carries, the explosion would have knocked them towards you guys. From there it is your job as Syndra to Q>E>R Varus to delete him.

  3. Next problem champ, Sol. Gragas's ult would have knocked him towards you as well, and with him being displaced his stars would have been disabled. With a RoA he's tanky, but not enough to keep him from being murdered. This is where Jhin and Nami should have ganged on him while you were taking out Varus.

  4. This leaves Garen and Blitz as active participants in the fight. Blitz can't kill you as fast as Garen can, so gang on Garen. To beat him, you have to Q right on him to slow him. Immediately follow with a E to get him the heck away from you and stun him. Chain CC with Gragas Belly Bump and whale on him to kill him next. This is when Nami burns her summoner 3 to weaken Garen more, reducing his defenses and his damage output when he is unstunned, This also slows him.

  5. Just whale on Blitz to take him out and then take out Eve last.

I know this is a perfect scenario, but this is meant as an example to show what could have happened. All in all, if your team had handled their displacements well you would have won. If Gragas knew what he was doing he would have isolated Varus with his ult for a free kill. Nami's Ult is great for disruption too. Anything to make sure they don't get to play. Chain CC works wonders.

If I have too, I will personally add you and run you through a custom game as Garen to train you on anti-Garen Tactics.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Hahahahyena1 votes

{quoted}

Okay, I'll try to be a little more specific.

  1. Their Eve is pretty much out of the game, she looks like she's in a pretty bad spot KDAwise. So she probably doesn't contribute much to teamfights. So it's a 5v4, but note she will come in to try to murder low health people that try to run.

  2. You had a Gragas. He should have used his ult to split up their team. How? Simple. If he had thown his ult right behind their carries, the explosion would have knocked them towards you guys. From there it is your job as Syndra to Q>E>R Varus to delete him.

  3. Next problem champ, Sol. Gragas's ult would have knocked him towards you as well, and with him being displaced his stars would have been disabled. With a RoA he's tanky, but not enough to keep him from being murdered. This is where Jhin and Nami should have ganged on him while you were taking out Varus.

  4. This leaves Garen and Blitz as active participants in the fight. Blitz can't kill you as fast as Garen can, so gang on Garen. To beat him, you have to Q right on him to slow him. Immediately follow with a E to get him the heck away from you and stun him. Chain CC with Gragas Belly Bump and whale on him to kill him next. This is when Nami burns her summoner 3 to weaken Garen more, reducing his defenses and his damage output when he is unstunned, This also slows him.

  5. Just whale on Blitz to take him out and then take out Eve last.

I know this is a perfect scenario, but this is meant as an example to show what could have happened. All in all, if your team had handled their displacements well you would have won. If Gragas knew what he was doing he would have isolated Varus with his ult for a free kill. Nami's Ult is great for disruption too. Anything to make sure they don't get to play. Chain CC works wonders.

If I have too, I will personally add you and run you through a custom game as Garen to train you on anti-Garen Tactics.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

yeah, eve was often dead at the start of a fight anyways

gragas well... he wasnt the best... lets just leave it at that

sol came into the fight after the cc was thrown and if gragas was our most reliant one in this strat then he was safe as houses if i wasnt near him (constantly being zoned by garen)

blitzcrank just kept pulling nami jhin or gp so...

blitz isnt much to worry about on his own and eve was probably still dead.

the game was over when garen killed gp because he kept tower diving him over and over (which he shouldnt be able to do, garen should not be able to tower dive gp at early levels) so many times that gp just got too salty and sold his items and ran ap.

anyway even if that was the perfect strategy varus would be too far away for gragas to ult and aurelion sol was already coming into the fightfrom where gragas didnt have ult to get garen away from everyone

azrolator1 votes

{quoted}

ok first thing to clarify, garen never killed me by himself, he either killed me by ksing, while i got bliztcranked, or ulted me while i was low and in the middle of their entire team, just to point that out.

thats what i mean when he isnt the only one to worry about, everyone think garen is easy when he is alone but because this game has 5 people on each team he just smashes everyone together and we cant focus him because there is already too much to focus, i mean look at varus, he should be priority not the fucking tank

then nami did land her stuns on him almost all the time but that didnt stop him, i wish i could show you the game but there isnt any replay that i know of

tanks wouldnt have mattered since he could just waltz into the backline while our tank is getting his ass handed to him by our varus or sol and whatnot

and it isnt a myth that garen is unstoppable, its a fact, unless his team doesnt know how to group he will just demolish games

So first Garen is so OP he is unstoppable and needs to be nerfed but now he is so weak he can't kill you except by killsteal or ulting you while you are already low and going to die anyway? I need a neck collar and a lawyer for that whiplash you just gave me.

Hahahahyena1 votes

{quoted}

So first Garen is so OP he is unstoppable and needs to be nerfed but now he is so weak he can't kill you except by killsteal or ulting you while you are already low and going to die anyway? I need a neck collar and a lawyer for that whiplash you just gave me.

if youve read he coulnt kill ME without ksing or ulting while low after a fight. hed already double killed my team during a fight and his team swept the others, i was usually the last one dead

doubleguac3 votes

Garen can be annoying but he's not really overpowered.

He's honestly not that strong anymore in the early laning phase. A lot of his damage is tied to his champion level now, instead of skill level. GP should not have trouble safely laning against him early on.

I don't like the villain system. It feels like I'm being punished for playing well. And it makes it nearly impossible to solo or duo carry a game against Garen (your whole team has to be doing decently).

But he doesn't need nerfs. He has clear strengths and weaknesses.

Like everyone else has said, he's not a tank. He's a diver. All he brings to the table is damage. His job is not to protect his allies--his job is to dive and kill (or zone) a carry.

azrolator2 votes

{quoted}

Garen can be annoying but he's not really overpowered.

He's honestly not that strong anymore in the early laning phase. A lot of his damage is tied to his champion level now, instead of skill level. GP should not have trouble safely laning against him early on.

I don't like the villain system. It feels like I'm being punished for playing well. And it makes it nearly impossible to solo or duo carry a game against Garen (your whole team has to be doing decently).

But he doesn't need nerfs. He has clear strengths and weaknesses.

Like everyone else has said, he's not a tank. He's a diver. All he brings to the table is damage. His job is not to protect his allies--his job is to dive and kill (or zone) a carry.

It's nice to hear someone pointing out that Garen got nerfed in his rework. The villain system is stupid. Garen does less damage than pre-rework until level 13, and only then if you are solo and the villain. Otherwise, he doesn't hit the same damage until level 16. Looks like GP had no clue what to do and fed him so hard that this person had a rough time with him. But if it had been any other champ got fed so hard, it wouldn't have been any different.

80569230_DEL1 votes

You probably had an inexperienced Gangplank. If your gangplank is farming under tower, he should place down a barrel near the turret so he can detonate it when Garen engages. Garen usually engages with Q, so when he does, detonate a barrel. There is no way Garen should be able to tower dive GP, unless GP got chunked good time beforehand and/or didn't detonate a barrel under turret.

Hahahahyena1 votes

[{quoted}](name=how about it,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l72OE7Et,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-06T23:16:21.567+0000)

You probably had an inexperienced Gangplank. If your gangplank is farming under tower, he should place down a barrel near the turret so he can detonate it when Garen engages. Garen usually engages with Q, so when he does, detonate a barrel. There is no way Garen should be able to tower dive GP, unless GP got chunked good time beforehand and/or didn't detonate a barrel under turret.

gp can detonate a barrel on garen but garen can cleanse the slow with his q and dive gp and 100 to 0 him.

Revali1 votes

garen_ thrives_ on squishy target, and with gp's base health nerf ( I think it was)

youd best bet garens spinning all over that stupid pirate ( I will forever miss you tankplank. )

80569230_DEL2 votes

But garen will have to engage with Q if he wants to catch up to gankplank running away.

YSeT9iEzJK1 votes

Lol.

Without checking you I guarantee you're bronze/low silver.

Garen is the master at exposing opponent's mistakes, and since you're a trash player hes going to expose you and your low elo team with ease.

If anything happens to Garen its going to be a buff, not a nerf.

AdeBug1 votes

just get teemo?

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