Support and Auto-fill both need to be addressed sooner, not later

chipndip1·Dec 24, 2016·2 votes·879 views

"Anytime I pick sup/fill, I always get fill"

Now we have auto-fill on 24/7 so that people can have sup/fill without getting sup for almost every game they play.

"Whenever I get Auto-filled, I do really bad or want to intentionally feed"

So which is it!? Do you want sup and fill to send everyone to support automatically, or do you want to have to fill sometimes so picking those secondary isn't auto-support?

Here, I'll answer for you: You want neither. You want to be able to play what you want without getting auto-filled somewhere AND without getting slapped on support 95% of the time when you're a mid main or something. Can we stop pretending like support isn't a problem? It's a legitimate problem, and we can't get to the bottom of all this until we address it.

10 Comments

Silly NeekoDec 24, 20162 votes

Hehe, bottom, supports in bottom lane.... I see what you did there.

The only reason people fail at support and do bad is because they have no clue how to team fight and work together. Ive seen a camille support and lucian adc that had the lucian 15/2/3 or so and camille 2/2/13.

Personally its a learning curve for lots of people. "eeewww, i have to work with theeeem?" comes to mind as something a little kid says when they are forced into a group.

Im a support main that gets support when i do support/fill and if someone is not wanting support and would prefer the lane i got, all the better. You are not stuck in your role if you ask and the other person agrees to switch.

What needs to be addressed is the lack of communication and the lack of people even WANTING to do team work.

I remember people saying support is the easiest role and that everyone can play it with any champion..... Now lookie at all the people saying they are doing bad because they were put into support. Karma has come finally to smack people who said support is the easiest and everyone can play support.

SchmidttyGamesDec 24, 20161 votes

This isn't true. I use Support/Fill every time I queue up, and only twice so far this season have I landed anywhere other than Support. Both of which were Top, strangely enough.

The Support Position isn't the problem. The mentality of the player base is. Everyone wants to be a hero. So few want to serve in the thankless (yet utterly vital) Support Role that the system is forced to put people in it arbitrarily. As a Support Main, the current model is a boon for me, because no auto-filled Support is going to have a fair shake in the areas that matter to Support Mains. If, in a 30 minute game, I put down 35 wards and destroy 5, and your support puts down 11 and destroys none, you shouldn't wonder why we took every dragon and seemed to know where you were going to be the entire game.

chipndip1Dec 24, 20161 votes

The number 1 cop out people have used about this issue is that "It's not the role, it's the people playing it that don't realize just how fun it is!". You sound like Orland Brown. "I'm not absolutely bat shit insane. I'M A GENIUS and I'm going to make everyone realize it!" If support was fun enough to play and populate, you wouldn't have to TELL people that it is. It'd just be populated.

SchmidttyGamesDec 24, 20162 votes

Your response is a cop-out, so don't try to fling garbage where it doesn't belong.

Support is a specialist role. They provide Vision Control, Objective Control, Recon, and protection for the weakest non-Support on the board. This player base largely does not want to fill this role, and it is proven every day by people like you who crap on it. Never mind that I study all of these things. Forget the fact that a good Support is the reason you're going to know exactly what to do and when. The role is a problem because sometimes YOU have to play it?

I don't buy that. Not for a second.

chipndip1Dec 24, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l6ExzyoB,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-24T22:16:35.734+0000)

Your response is a cop-out, so don't try to fling garbage where it doesn't belong.

You know what? YOU TELL ME. How is my response to you a cop out? How is telling you that "If support was 'perfectly fine', it'd be self evident and thus we wouldn't have this problem" a cop out. You tell me.

Support is a specialist role.

That's literally like saying "I know you didn't like it the first time around, but eating live roaches is a very niche delicacy only a few with truly exquisite taste buds would unde-"

No, it's just stupid and you're in denial. You don't have to describe to me the taste of that roach. Describing it doesn't make it any more appealing. And with that said, you don't have to describe to people the responsibilities of supports because WE ALREADY KNOW. Ward some shit. Deward the other shit. Lane with your marksman. Roam sometimes. Land your hard cc. Buy heal/shield items. Spam heals/shields. Win the game hopefully. It may vary from game to game but goodness it's not rocket science.

This player base largely does not want to fill this role, and it is proven every day by people like you who crap on it.

You're actually ridiculous. It's proven by this auto-fill debacle we got ourselves into ever since last season. I'm simply calling for more support mains than just myself to be honest with yourselves about the state of the role from a big picture perspective. The game play of the role is a low point in comparison to the others in this game. That's the problem. You can't do something about that if you won't even admit it, and if you won't, we're basically forfeiting ourselves to eternal auto-fill.

Never mind that I study all of these things. Forget the fact that a good Support is the reason you're going to know exactly what to do and when. The role is a problem because sometimes YOU have to play it?

ANYONE can be a good shot caller. The fuck is this? And no, the problem is that no one wants to play it because something's wrong with its gameplay, not "they don't know about the intricacies and riveting action-packed excitement of warding a bush".

SchmidttyGamesDec 24, 20161 votes

Point 1: Tenant of Logic "Begs the Question". You crap on Supports and Support Players by accusing the role of being at issue when you clearly don't know what they are meant to do.

Point 2: Then explain to me what you think a Support should do, in your opinion? To me, it's vision control, objective control, and recon. While you're busy CSing, I have the time to watch the mini-map. If I'm doing my job well, I can give you information you will certainly miss. A good support is not your bloody slave. A good support works for the entire team.

Point 3: You crapped on me immediately, so I don't see how you can call it ridiculous without being a hypocrite. The role, itself, is in a good place. The player base is what is making the role toxic, which reinforces my Point 1.

Point 4: True, but no other role has the time, nor the inclination, do what the Support is built for. You don't want to miss CS. I miss CS the entire game, so I'll ward the dragon pit. It's not about always being the Shot Caller, it's about providing your shot caller with the proper information to make good Calls.

Also, let it be plainly said that you are attempting to tell me what I do and do not know in a role that I study actively, and play far more often than you do. You do not know everything, nor is your opinion paramount. Not everyone is the same as you, and you need to accept that.

chipndip1Dec 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l6ExzyoB,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-24T22:48:12.256+0000)

Point 1: Tenant of Logic "Begs the Question". You crap on Supports and Support Players by accusing the role of being at issue when you clearly don't know what they are meant to do.

I don't think you're using "begs the question" correctly, but I find it funny that you just assume I don't know what a support does. I'm a support main.

Point 2: Then explain to me what you think a Support should do, in your opinion? To me, it's vision control, objective control, and recon. While you're busy CSing, I have the time to watch the mini-map. If I'm doing my job well, I can give you information you will certainly miss. A good support is not your bloody slave. A good support works for the entire team.

I don't cs. I MAIN SUPPORT. STOP TELLING ME THINGS I ALREADY KNOW.

With that said, my problem isn't "what a support should do". That's micro-scale thinking. The problem is in two parts:

We have a myriad of possible champ classes and play patterns in the role, but itemization is heavily slanted in favor of defensive enchanters to the point where wardens like Thresh rush Redemption. Where every other position has its itemization fleshed out to support a vast array of play styles, support is stuck in one camp. Don't like it? Tough shit. This is where some moron will reference Zyra and Brand, and I'll have to waste calories explaining that they don't deal damage through builds, but rather their bases, because support doesn't allow for scaling ap since there's hardly any items in the role with ap on them worth buying.
There's a good few champs that could use major work about now. The enchanter play style is too heavily focused around mashing shields and heals, but enchanters are the main types of champs you'll see as support options. Having defensive champions isn't a problem in and of itself, but not everyone likes going full-on defense, nor do they like how brain-dead that defensive (if not blatantly passive) play is.

Point 3: You crapped on me immediately, so I don't see how you can call it ridiculous without being a hypocrite. The role, itself, is in a good place. The player base is what is making the role toxic, which reinforces my Point 1.

Isn't YOUR logic the circular one here? You're asserting that the role is in a good place, but the player base is just avoiding it, but if it's being avoided to the point of being a problem, then it's evident that something's wrong, and yet you say it's not wrong? You're blaming people for having a natural reaction to something they don't want to deal with because they don't want to deal with it given that that thing is the way it is. Instead of looking for a cause of the problem, you're pointing at the symptoms and saying "fix your shit".

Point 4: True, but no other role has the time, nor the inclination, do what the Support is built for. You don't want to miss CS. I miss CS the entire game, so I'll ward the dragon pit. It's not about always being the Shot Caller, it's about providing your shot caller with the proper information to make good Calls.

Junglers are supposed to have their eye on the map just as much as a support is anyway. That makes at least one other person that should be just as able to shot call as the support is, if not more.

Also, let it be plainly said that you are attempting to tell me what I do and do not know in a role that I study actively, and play far more often than you do. You do not know everything, nor is your opinion paramount. Not everyone is the same as you, and you need to accept that.

You have no idea...

Silly NeekoDec 24, 20162 votes

As i said. Karma is coming around to bite all those people in the rear about always talking bad about, and always blaming the supports for losses.

If i had a nickle every time i heard "your 0/(insert deaths here) so shut up" and they completely ignore the 27+ assists...... Lol

That and if i had a nickle every time i heard someone say that support role is the easiest role, anyone can play it and do well.....

SchmidttyGamesDec 24, 20161 votes

It looks easy if you have no idea what they are doing. Many people think that Support is simply the ADC's winger (or slave/bitch as I've also heard), which is honestly disheartening.

"You're 0/3 with no CS." Okay, but my carry is 4/0 with twice the CS of their 3/3 carry. BTW I also have 4 assists.

"Why did you leave lane?" To ward so that we can see things coming.

"You can't go to mid!" Why not? Our mid got a kill and is pushing tower. You were backed anyway.

"I died 1v3 under their tower you suck at life." I pinged their jungler incoming from scuttle but you stayed there to push tower. I'm glad that's my fault.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Silly NeekoDec 24, 20161 votes

Or when you go to ward tribush on blue side, or go around to the back to ward river bush on red side..... THATS when they decide to go and try to poke on people like caitlyn and morg/leona mix xD

Honestly the reason why people fail so much at support, is because they have no sense of team work. They are all busy thinking they are the greatest, im winning this game all by myself....... Mean while support and adc are forced to work together in lane (until the support gets tired of the adc and leaves) which if the enemy has more coordination and is duo, and you are two solos.... It makes life a bit more difficult at bott lane lol. All champs are easy enough to get the hang of, you play the game, you watch how they are played, do a few games with them, and you can usually play them well enough to do something meaningful. This does not mean you are an expert at them, just that you know how to play them well enough to do something meaningful.

With support, you need to have knowledge of your champs AND knowledge of the ADC (and visa versa) and know how aggressive one adc is over another. You also have to account for the ally and enemy jungler. So you go from a lane that normally deals with 2 MABEY 3 but rarely 4 champions on the average in the game to deal with (you, enemy laner, enemy jungle, and then occasional mid and your jungle roams) to needing to watch and keep track of up to 4 if not 5 due to teleport top enemys, along with where your adc, jung, and mid are along with playing your champion.