About assassins

chipndip1··12 votes·5,016 views

Their long-running problem in this game has been that they don't offer counter-play because they murder the minute their damage rotation starts. The whole reason why the assassin rework was attempted to begin with was because the resounding sentiment of the player base was that assassins were a fucking pain to deal with when they just wiped people the moment they were spotted.

So CT designs Akali, an assassin that is pretty much unable to quickly kill anyone without landing multiple moves at melee or close-to-it ranges. Well, because of this notion, coupled with how squishy she is, we run into new problems. She needs a way to not die while doing her damage rotation (Note that Akali's base armor is so low that she even with +5 armor, she has less starting armor...than Nami. She has a base armor of 23. Just a quick factoid for how easy it is for her to die if she messes up in even small ways). Other assassins don't need as powerful defensive tools because their job is much faster.

Akali's Twilight Shroud gives her the room to actually do her combos without being clicked on and beat down the minute she's in range. Alright, but we have a new problem. Akali's Shroud used to have a blink, and doesn't now. How does she turret dive? This is solved by allowing her W to drop turret aggro while she's in it, and counter-play is provided by allowing enemies to see her outline so they can hit her with freely aimed attacks to slow her down or stall her shroud. Even if she zones you from cs for a bit, if you're pretty healthy you can just walk back up while her W's down and punish her, and if you're low, you needed to go to fountain, anyway.

However, the resounding sentiment from the community is that it apparently hates Akali more than all the one-shot machines we had BEFORE Akali.

So here's the big question: If you guys hate getting LeBlanc'd on, but you ALSO dislike Akali because of the logistics of her game play, do you guys even like the concept of assassins at all?

Like, there's only 2 ways to go about it. Either they 1-shot people on sight or they have defensive mechanics that give them the time they need to chase down and finish up targets. Doing something like Evelynn where they just delay the inevitable doesn't really make much of a difference (I'm given a warning symbol, then she flies out of the darkness with the quickness and murders me before the Charm's done...what have we accomplished by designing this champ?) and pretty much has the same issue as the older assassins (all their game play is concentrated around one singular moment, and their job is to just delete you in that moment and hightail it out of there before you get to do anything about it...or they just die). Akali's the only solo lane assassin we have in the game that isn't designed around bursting people in a singular moment like this, and thus offers more time to play around her in fights...which was the ENTIRE POINT of everyone's complaining like 2 or so years ago. If you guys hate this as well, the hell else are assassins supposed to do?

I personally like this direction of assassin design that gives them stronger defensive tools and gives me longer to try to save myself somehow instead of getting K6'd the minute an assassin's on screen, so if anyone's wondering, the reason I defend Akali like I do is because I don't want the NEXT assassin to be a throwback to the cancer we've been dealing with before Akali. I DO NOT like being 1-shot.

18 Comments

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

do you guys even like the concept of assassins at all?

No. Not at all. Assassins cant be both balanced (in a soloq) and be fun to face. Period.

chipndip14 votes

{quoted}

No. Not at all. Assassins cant be both balanced (in a soloq) and be fun to face. Period.

I get that feel from this place, even though people try to argue otherwise in other instances.

PhantomSpirit1013 votes

Good argument about to be downvoted because you're talking about Akali being a good design which is against the boards and the fact that you're Chip... [zombie-brand-clap]

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

And he said CT did something right that wasn't the WW rework.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

And he said CT did something right that wasn't the WW rework.

Honestly, WW's rework was probably the worst work he's done, save Kalista.

WW's rework falls really flat once you move past the bells and whistles, kind of like Nunu's.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

I agree 100%.

Akali's shroud can be frustrating, but it's honestly the best thing Riot could have done. The only other alternative was just making her stronger defensively than every other assassin, but that just means you still can't kill her before she kills you. (And that doesn't even consider the problems of giving someone who builds Gunblade a lot of defenses...)

Akali is the healthiest assassin to date. One frustrating part of her kit to allow her to have a longer burst rotation you can actually do something against? I'd take that any day over the mindless burst of most assassins that boils down to having stopwatch, GA, a lot of tank stats, or dying.

Moody P2 votes

I still don't consider "kill someone very quickly" to be a design role that needs to be a class's entire and sole function. A champion can kill people fast but when it's the only thing that they really justify themselves by then that champion is probably not well-made.

Akali is a big step up because she has a clear advantage versus champs with targeted damage who have to wait until she destealths to try and counter-attack her compared to skillshot spammers who don't have to let up on their offense at all when fighting her. I wouldn't say she's perfect but she's easily the best foundation for an assassin kit so far. CertainlyT has a good track record of reinvigorating struggling classes - he gave us Yasuo, the first truly functioning melee ADC that's more than a heap of steroids slapped together, and now we have Akali.

PhantomSpirit1011 votes

Even though I hate most CT champs (because of my own bias), I feel like the only champ he messed up on was Kalista

chipndip13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l4WH0ghT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-20T22:48:47.303+0000)

I still don't consider "kill someone very quickly" to be a design role that needs to be a class's entire and sole function. A champion can kill people fast but when it's the only thing that they really justify themselves by then that champion is probably not well-made.

Akali is a big step up because she has a clear advantage versus champs with targeted damage who have to wait until she destealths to try and counter-attack her compared to skillshot spammers who don't have to let up on their offense at all when fighting her. I wouldn't say she's perfect but she's easily the best foundation for an assassin kit so far. CertainlyT has a good track record of reinvigorating struggling classes - he gave us Yasuo, the first truly functioning melee ADC that's more than a heap of steroids slapped together, and now we have Akali.

Imagine a CT juggernaut...or a CT enchanter.

PhantomSpirit1014 votes

enchanter

Riot still makes those?

chipndip13 votes

{quoted}

Riot still makes those?

Emphasis on imagine.

Infernape3 votes

Imagine a CT juggernaut

So Darius?

Moody P1 votes

darius isn't CT's anymore and wasn't a functioning juggernaut until the update, imo. champ was just there to make laning shit and then be shit for the rest of the game

Śhunpo2 votes

There isn't anything wrong with instant burst, it's instant burst that still oneshots you regardless of items. That's why Zed and Leblanc will forever remain frustrations to face since even without items they have enough base damage to deal most if not all of your HP.

On the other hand, a champion like old Kat was actually balanced in that regard, as well as Ekko in the fact that they need items in order to one-tap you.

I do agree with your post though, to an extent anyways, Riot should not be giving defensive tools to assassins, which is why I think the assassin update utterly failed. However with the one point I agree with I disagree with another equally, oneshotting is not inherently an issue by itself. Assassins especially should be the prime class for oneshotting, and a good baseline to establish for which class/champ is broken in regards to DPH (Damage Per Hit) and BPS (Burst Per Second). Example, if mages in general or just a champ like Galio alone are doing over 1/2 your HP without full combo'ing you that's a good indication that that class or champ is broken. Likewise, you can use assassins to gauge whether or not there is too much damage in the game, if an assassin doesn't even have to full combo you (unless insanely ahead) then there's too much damage in the game. But there's nothing wrong with oneshotting though, especially when you consider the toxic designs of ranged champs and CC based tanks which get factored into the mix.

Prestige AkaIi2 votes

This post sums up why I thought the Akali rework was actually going to be quite successful, leave it to the community to disappoint me. Akali offers, IMO, the most counterplay out of almost all the assassins, she has slow, backloaded burst compared to every other assassin, giving ample time to react accordingly. Me personally, since I got used to her kit I've not lost against an Akali ever, mainly because she's easy to counter as long as you walk away from W. If she doesn't get fed in laning phase, she loses, even if she wins laning phase, unless she snowballs to victory, she loses. She loses a lot.

I've been following your posts on Akali for a while and I've agreed with all of them. Back when you posted on the gameplay+ about not understanding the hate for Akali I was pretty happy. The boards were filled with Akali hate and I was super disappointed the community didn't like her, so seeing an objective post going over all the good things about her kit was pretty welcome.

Hügö2 votes

do you guys even like the concept of assassins at all?

The concept of assassins is my favorite in nearly all games. But the conecpt of assassins in league isn't a good one. The normal concept is to assassinate a high value target when it is the most vulnerable, so most likely being alone or weakened. In league on the other side assassins will dive completly into the enemy team initiate the fight and most likely end it aswell.

Reaper Claws1 votes

Bruh Khazix isn't even that bad, just stay near your teammates.

chipndip12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Claws,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l4WH0ghT,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-01-21T02:10:00.165+0000)

Bruh Khazix isn't even that bad, just stay near your teammates.

That's the counter-play for every assassin in the game.

The issue is that the moment you're caught out for even a moment, he gets bonus damage and slams your hp bar in one rotation.

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