Why are people saying ADCs are the main issue?

Elohaven·Dec 30, 2017·8 votes·1,561 views

Edit: People are not getting the point. I'm not saying lanes or champions are equal. That's a separate discussion. I'm saying ADCs are not the reason we're in this situation. I'm talking about board members who want nerfs to the marksmen class in total which is ridiculous.

ADCs are the most influential role and deal the most damage but they are not the main issue. Are some ADCs a problem? Yes.

Some junglers are a problem. Some bruisers are a problem. Some assassins are a problem Some tanks are a problem. Some supports are a problem,

Nerfing ADCs as a class and making their item set more expensive will not make the game better. This would lead to assassin nerfs, then tanks, then supports, etc.

Right now, the main issue is that all classes are gaining items too fast and the numbers in the runes needs to be tuned. Damage creep which has led to easier gold income which has led to easier snowballing is a problem.

59 Comments

ShahamutDec 30, 201715 votes

the thing with ADC itemization though is that it is the cheapest items in the game, for the class that scales the hardest with them.

When ADC's get their items faster than every other class, the classes that spike mid game don't really get a chance to shine, because when they get their items, the ADC's are already spiking on their own items and the window for a mid game champ shrinks with every item the adc gets.

The game has become VERY fast paced, not just due to snowballing mechanics like tower first blood, but also to cheap itemization, power creep, etc, etc.

Gold gain, outside of the loss of Dragon gold and the introduction of tower first blood, has remained largely the same for everyone aside from supports.

Personally, I think the entire item system needs an overhaul. Yes, its preseason, and there are some ADC's/Runes/etc that need some balance work, but to say that ADC itemization being so cheap isn't part of the problem is just foolish.

So, I respectfully disagree with what seems to be your position that ADC itemization is not a problem.

ExecutionerDec 30, 20178 votes

Do you know why most adc do this? Were not doing it because its a problem. Were doing it for most bang for my buck. The classic way of building used to be item 3031 item 3087 item 3072 this used to be our core, till we got more items to run the other way. In the old patchs this would of been 10k gold. Now its 9700.

Now the new crit builds are 8600 gold. Literally 1k less, why is that? Were not buying a blood thrister which is another 1k to build.

Were buying something that hasn't changed in gold. Essentially the same item, just different passives. Now that the shields and heals from a support basically become our hp, that would of been from life steal. So we really dont need life steal items that much any more for us. All we need now is the last whisper for the armor pen and a defensive item to keep our own dumb ass alive.

In all reality we didn't do anything but changed the way we build ourselves. Phantom Dancer has been around 2800 to 2600 gold, and infinity lost 200 gold. However infinity edge has lost of the crit chance, and ad off the item. That is why its 3400 and not 3600 or 3800.

However the only real problems with the ADC itemization is basically the two items. item 3087 item 3094 People want adc to not be able to build basically the two items to bring them up to at least 9k.

PhearBunnyDec 30, 20174 votes

Vayne is the only true problem. Everything else is capable of being counterpick or counterplayed.

The only exception is Vayne.

VesemirDec 30, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is the only true problem. Everything else is capable of being counterpick or counterplayed.

The only exception is Vayne.

Yeah counter Twitch or MF please. Vayne has a dangerous kit. She goes in. Twitch oneshots your team from afar same with MF. You are just a bandwagon Vayne hater.

Somebody Love MeDec 30, 20173 votes

You can just walk out of MF ult. Or jump on her and interrupt it.

You can't interrupt Twitch. And he will just stealth, re-position, and then gun you down.

Vayne is single target as hell, so whoever she isn't mowing down can mow her down.

PhearBunnyDec 31, 20173 votes

I can counter MF or Twitch simply by picking an assassin and doing my job. NOTHING counters Vayne

She is the best assassin in the game. = too strong vs adcs The best duelist in the game. = too strong vs everything The best tank buster in the game.= too strong vs tanks The most mechanical champ in the game. = too strong vs everything, only weakness is human error.

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I can counter MF or Twitch simply by picking an assassin and doing my job.

And this is the reason for your misunderstanding of the meta and mechanics, you yourself are benefiting too greatly from riot's mistakes.

Somebody Love MeDec 31, 20173 votes

Vayne can deal with assassins because she excels at 1v1s, but she can't deal with groups fucking her up. In teamfights, she has to go in and do damage. She has to get in your face. Punish her then. Yes, she has a team, but so do you. You usually prioritize the ADC in fights anyway. Vayne literally gives herself to you by rolling at your face xD

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Actual Trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3LGmk8W,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-31T22:26:51.056+0000)

Vayne can deal with assassins because she excels at 1v1s, but she can't deal with groups fucking her up. In teamfights, she has to go in and do damage. She has to get in your face. Punish her then. Yes, she has a team, but so do you. You usually prioritize the ADC in fights anyway. Vayne literally gives herself to you by rolling at your face xD

I'm not sure I understand your point. I have no problem with vayne herself. My only issue is that the game balance is broken not the champ balance.

Somebody Love MeDec 31, 20171 votes

Yikes I responded to the wrong person. My bad xD it was meant for the other guy

OxyrottenDec 31, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Actual Trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3LGmk8W,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-31T22:48:48.079+0000)

Yikes I responded to the wrong person. My bad xD it was meant for the other guy

Lol it happens.

VesemirJan 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Actual Trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3LGmk8W,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-12-30T21:30:43.240+0000)

You can just walk out of MF ult. Or jump on her and interrupt it.

You can't interrupt Twitch. And he will just stealth, re-position, and then gun you down.

Vayne is single target as hell, so whoever she isn't mowing down can mow her down.

Yeah no. You dont walk out of MF ult when a team fight breaks on. You either become the ones who escape and chased by the enemy team and eventually killed. Or you stay in her ultimate to get 100-0. Also i dont know if you know this but there is a role called support that will peel and protect the adc. Jumping on MF will guarantee you getting killed just to interrupt her ult which will turn the tf to 4v5. Also with the amount of CC in the game right now, there is no way you will reach MF without getting killed.

Somebody Love MeJan 4, 20182 votes

Supports peel ADCs successfully as long as the ADC is moving. MF stays still, so she can't do anything when someone jumps on her. She has to cancel the ult, which removes one problem for the enemy team.

And you can walk out of MF ult because it's a cone, so you either walk to the side, or if you're at the end, walk away from her. Of course, she tries to combo her ult with CC and her E, but unless your getting body blocked by your whole team, you can make it out before the full channel completes lmao

NasuunaDec 31, 20173 votes

nerf it all

Damage dealers deal to much damage leading to tank items that mitigate to hard leading to adcs 3 shotting everybody except tanks who take 30seconds to 5v1

AirKingNeoDec 31, 20173 votes

except most adcs aren't 3 shotting people.

NekoniClawsDec 31, 20172 votes

People hate skills they can't dodge. People will approach Lux and then blame themself for not dodging her Q- but they'll be mad that the ADC's damage was undodgeable (even though both classes are balanced around this).

ShablagooDec 31, 20172 votes

Because the game has been made completely about them, jg gank bot, mid gank bot, top tp bot, that is if you want to win. They also scale faster now, it isnt time its items 2 items and its late game for them, supports also have such a massive impact on the game now, which is great but also annoying because they mostly effect adc's thats why they were so cancer with ardent. Somethings change with the preseason I think others can carry now, but what annoys ppl the most is the lack of real balancing when it comes to adc's its like riot doesnt seem to want to nerf them, examples are twitch, and rn ez and kinda mf, instead of nerfing them they just wait it out their last nerfs were not enough. They literally havent even touched twitch at all and he was completely broken the entire last season. Certain champs in the adc's role will never be able to compete like ashe who is really fun. And it becomes a snowball meta because it you dont the adc will take over which is annoying. Assassins dont have the control over adc's as much it is mostly mages mid lane. These are just some that can be thought of, basically adc's really kinda ruin the game for everyone because of their impact on the game. Also beat them before they scale is a bad form of counteplay.

ElohavenDec 31, 20171 votes

A lane with 2 people will always have the highest importance

ExecutionerDec 31, 20171 votes

He wont understand, all he sees is red.

ShablagooDec 31, 20173 votes

Which is what ppl hate man.. You dont get it ppl dont want the game to be about only bot lane, mid lane wants to be able to carry, top lane wants to be able to carry, and jungle wants to be able to carry bot lane should not be the only one to have that privilege because their are two ppl. Jungle making bot lane carry by ganking isnt carrying, top tping bot isnt carrying, mind ganking bot isnt carry that is just giving bot the lead so they can carry. Which is what ppl are sick of especially top, top lane literally no longer has any effect on the game unless they help bot, that is the state of the game rn how can you not expect ppl to completely despise bot lane when they literally have 98 percent of the say in how a game goes.

The only times league was fun last seasons was when lethality was good oh wait adc's abused it. Or when dd was op, oh wait, then db came out oh wait MissFortune ruined that. Almost everything that was introduced this season, and was op, was centered around bot lane dont even get me started on ardent. It makes the game so boring.

ElohavenDec 31, 20171 votes

Who said they can't carry? Toplane can splitpush and carry or roam and carry. Jungle can carry the whole game with good pressure and timing. Mid can just roam and carry as well.

Top laners can carry right now and shred towers.

ShablagooJan 1, 20181 votes

Jungle gets there carry from carrying another lane and pressuring them, but you really think that pressuring top offers the same value or carry potential as pressuring bottom, if you do you dont play the game.

No top laner shreds towers as fast as adc's, they have a range advantage that allows them way better sieging and shreding then top laners. Mid has to roam to a lane and pressure it again same as jg why pressure top when you can pressure bot with the most value. In fact that is the problem the fact that pressuring a certain lane( bottom in this case) offers real carry potential compared to any other lane. For example two junglers both pressure a lane one top and on bottom, unless the bot lane is full of apes, the bot lane will carry the game after two items. No contest, if mid does the same thing the again bot lane will win the game. This is the frustrating state of the game, but now what is even more frustrating is how short the games are.

ElohavenJan 1, 20181 votes

Tryndamere, Jax, Udyr, Nasus and Yorick shred towers faster than ADCs.

Pressuring bot offers better results because you get two potential kills, a drake, a tower, and two people behind. That's 40% of the team compared to 20%. The argument is 40% of the team should be equal to 20% of the team in influence and power. That makes no sense.

ShablagooJan 1, 20181 votes

Nasus and Yorick only excel because of demolish nasus also needs stacks. Other then that non of the othes do not shred faster then adc's. Your going to tell me udyr shreds towers faster then trist? Such a joke dude, not only that but they have way better sieging then any other class.

Bot shouldnt have that much impact on the game which is what ppl complain about. Top has rift yet it still only offers like 3% total influence on the game. It isnt even 40% it is more like 87%, mid offering 5% only to offering it because they roam bot and jg offering 5% because they pressure bot and give them kills. The 3% remaining is top which offer only the potential tp bot. If you dont have some global ult or tp bot you are useless to the team.

ElohavenJan 1, 20181 votes

"Your going to tell me udyr shreds towers faster then trist? Such a joke dude, "

Are you kidding me? We're not comparing single champions. We're comparing the classes in general. You were the one introducing a general class. No. Actually, any toplaner with demolish shreds towers faster than an ADC early game. Supports help ADCs and botlane is the weakest tower. You can't compare Tristana and Udyr together because Trist was designed to shred towers. Udyr is not. You should compare Tristana to Nasus then as their tower shredding ramps up as they grow.

Rift does not offer 3% influence. Stop pulling numbers out of nowhere. Statistically, from op.gg, those with Rift have a 78% chance of winning the game. Usually because at that point that team has a lead.

Jungle and mid do not offer 5% influence. At this point, you're pulling numbers out your ass with no reference to your sources. Point me to them. Bot has the highest interaction between champions in the game - not influence if you're speaking from its events. People go to bot to get a drag, two potential double kills, and a tower. That's more of a value than ganking top or mid especially with infernal drakes at botlane. You also put their main damage source behind and get to safely snowball and kill their team without worries of getting demolished by their behind ADC. In addition, two people get behind rather than one. 40% of the team gets behind. Botlane tower is also the weakest.

ShablagooJan 1, 20181 votes

Ok but you literally listed single champion you think compare and shred towers faster then adc's, which is why I gave a a adc that shreds faster then them. The introduction of this rune doesnt even mean anything too adc's still are the best siegers and tower takers in the game, with high ad scalings as well as attack speed they will be better tower takers.

Because that is the general amount of actual influence those lanes and things provide you also pull numbers out of your ass as well so you obviously are just putting a feel into it. Also I am talking about the influence on the game in general, top lane only provides that much influence into the game. Also if the team has the lead they already dont have a chance of winning regardless unless ofc the adc farms up and the other team protects them. And bot lane having that much influence in the game is the problem. Also supports being kill actually should even provide that much dmg to a game because it is their base abilities that provide the utility to the team. If the adc gets behind then they should just move to the lane that is carrying to push their lead but because the other adc is ahead they completely dominate. Adc dont have counter-play other then kill them first or completely remove them from the game which, leaves a unhealthy aspect of the game.

ElohavenJan 2, 20181 votes

you literally listed single champion you think

No, I listed several. They're not the only good splitpushers either.

you also pull numbers out of your ass as well so you obviously are just putting a feel into it.

I gave my sources - you didn't. Don't be salty.

Ok but you literally listed single champion you think compare and shred towers faster then adc's, which is why I gave a a adc that shreds faster then them. The introduction of this rune doesnt even mean anything too adc's still are the best siegers and tower takers in the game, with high ad scalings as well as attack speed they will be better tower takers.

I gave those examples to talk about a general class and the wide range of champions in that class that are viable for the specified action: seiging.

ADCs by late game are the best seigers because that's the point of their role. Nuking power and squishiness. That is what gives them value.

Demolish is relevant. It makes toplaners much stronger early game for seiging and supports able to help take towers faster. You can start a snowball in any lane. People prefer top or bot because the enemy team will lose frontline defense or damage.

Also supports being kill actually should even provide that much dmg to a game because it is their base abilities that provide the utility to the team

Supports already do both and it's actually an issue with some. Poke lanes are meta for a reason.

If the adc gets behind then they should just move to the lane that is carrying to push their lead but because the other adc is ahead they completely dominate. Adc dont have counter-play other then kill them first or completely remove them from the game which, leaves a unhealthy aspect of the game.

Removing ADCs is a horrid idea. I won't even go into how stupid that is. Make a thread about it if you feel it is that important. They have counterplay with armor items and how easy it is to one-shot them. You can also CC them. If you want to use that statement for ADCs, we can use the same statement for top laners and junglers.

ShablagooJan 2, 20181 votes

And I listed an one adc in fact that beats them in tower shred so I still dont see the point your trying to make. If I offer a adc which is better then them then your argument doesnt stand does it.

You listed stats for rift so how does that translate to the influence on the game of the top lane? Im explictly talkign about the fact that you think each role offers 20% to the game. Top does not, in fact I dont even think you play top, offer 20% influence to the game only champions that do are tanks which provide again shielding and protection for the adc.

Then isnt that just even more influence bot has over the game, the support follows the adc around so they have both the best sieger in the game along with demolish while top has a lone split pusher who doesnt really impact the game much at all. And again you just proved my point adc's are the best siegers why, cuz they destory towers the fastest.

Again way to much influence in general in the bot lane dmg, utility, and heals in cases, that was sona before the nerf. Which was a good catch by riot because she has no counterplay in her kit other the missing her ult herself.

I am not talking about removing adc's I am talking about the fact that in lane one adc will remove another from the game when they get the lead. Which leaves the other team at a complete lost for sure, getting killed by an assassin over and over while trying to farm practically leaves, the team with the losing adc, with a 4v5 situation which they cannot win. On top of that adc's now snowball harder then any other class rn which is really a problem they shouldnt, but then again everything does rn. What it turns into is champions like ez and mf being the most viable while lucian and another remains unplayable ez was like that for the entire s7 and when the adc was strong they completely dominated lethality mf, vayne at one point, twitch too, and now vayne is coming back.

Killing something faster then they kill you isnt counterplay. That is a basic aspect of the game, that is their only counterplay. The same statement can be used for example against and op champion like malz, kill him before he kills you. That isnt counterplay that is just you not having any options. I am talking about counterplay in the sense that mages need to land skillshots and the counterplay being dodging them, or using assassins delay times to go all out. Or using zhonya's to dodge a zed/fizz ult. That is counterplay, explict windows of opportunity in which one is able to outplay someone, windows which show themselves. For adc's their is now window, the fact that all their dmg comes from point clicking leaves now windows other then killing them faster or having cc to make sure they do no dmg to kill them. But nothing in their actual kits allows for counterplay. The same thing would be said for Rengar before his rework, their was no window in which one could outplay him the only think being cc him or kill him faster yet adc mains complained and got what they wanted. So why is it adc dont get the same treatment, why is it jihn, varus and graves are rare adc's yet are not as successful as other adc's like twitch and mf. It is because those champions have the same level of counterplay as the old rengar next to none. It doesnt have to do with rengars stealth it was the fact that his dmg was instant and could not be dodged it is the same with some adc's.

ElohavenJan 2, 20181 votes

And I listed an one adc in fact that beats them in tower shred so I still dont see the point your trying to make. If I offer a adc which is better then them then your argument doesnt stand does it.

It still does. I'm talking about classes, not individual champs. 5th or 7th time I said this. Seeing as you ignored the entire point of my post and want to keep whining, I'm leaving you to your ignorance.

ShablagooJan 3, 20181 votes

Dude and the adc class is still better in sieging and tower shredding, of the class that you list just one champion of the adc class individually beats almost all of them so regardless of a the class vs class adc still wins, so again the your argument fails. Seeing as how you ignore the rest of my post it seems that you dont have an argument anymore so good day to you too(tips fedora).

Somebody Love MeDec 31, 20172 votes

That's not true actually. Before the bot lane meta, every lane was equal. ADC and support have to split exp, so they're underleveled, putting them at lower value early. Yes, they're still underleveled now, but now Marksman spike faster and harder than every other class, leading to bot lane being the place that matters most. That, and the bot tower having no armor, so its an easier first turret.

ElohavenDec 31, 20171 votes

No, not every lane was equal. Top had two people and so did bot. Mid had one person.

Marksmen spike faster due to the amount of healing, shields, and lifesteal from runes and champion abilities. Before all of this, the average marksmen build was the same as a toplaners due to the need of lifesteal items. Now there is not a need.

Marksmen do not spike faster. They hit spikes at 15, 20-25, and 30. Until 25 minutes, marksmen have not hit their core items while assassins, junglers, and midlaners have already gained theirs.

They spike harder than every other class because they're meant for the lategame and shredding. Botlane matters the most because dragon is there.

The issue isn't the marksmen class though. That's my point. It's the situation and damage creep around it.

Somebody Love MeJan 1, 20181 votes

How far back are you going :o I'm talking season 6 to before mid season 7.

ElohavenJan 1, 20181 votes

We're tangent to the main point.

Somebody Love MeJan 1, 20181 votes

Back to the point. Marksmen have always scaled the hardest. That's not the problem. The problem is that they scale faster. Marksmen spike faster because of the midseason 7 buff to their items. All crit became cheaper and more synergistic (Shiv RFC) and some items had damage buffs, but no power was trimmed to even out the price reduction and random buffs. ADCs were known to be unmatched late game, but with their items cheaper, late game champs scaled too fast. Some ADCs even got individual buffs.

At some earlier point in time, supports also got buffed. I think it was preseason 7. New items got added, some synergies added as well. So now with both bot lane roles buffed, they both grew in value, to the point of crowding out other roles.

ElohavenJan 1, 20181 votes

My earlier posts highlights why ADC items are cheap and why ADCs scale so fast. Due to healing, shields, and no need for lifesteal, they can get cheaper items. The reason crit is so cheap is because Bloodthirster and BORK were necessities for ADCs as well. Until runes gave 8% lifesteal, ability healing, supports withs shields and heals, tanks with shields and peel, and CC all made these expensive lifestreal items unnecessary.

TL;DR the state of the game with itemization and damage creep caused this.

The main point is - ADCs aren't directly the issue or the main issue. Items and damage creep are. If crit was made to be more expensive, we would see ADCs scale the same again. We also need to tune rune numbers

AirKingNeoDec 30, 20171 votes

Actually, most numbers in the runes are lower than season 6-7 runes, especially Precision.

ExecutionerDec 30, 20171 votes

Really? I didn't know that.

AirKingNeoDec 31, 20171 votes

Press the Attack is way worse than Fervor. Fleet Footwork is way worse than Warlord's Bloodlust.

AhristocatsDec 31, 20172 votes

And that's good

It fixed adcs not being weak in early game and the problem of adcs being reliable was still not fixed

AirKingNeoDec 31, 20171 votes

That implies being reliable is a bad thing to exist
A lot of champions miss fervor, but thank god for Warlords nerfs.

AhristocatsDec 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That implies being reliable is a bad thing to exist

when everything else is unreliable it is bad indeed

i don't like my damage as morde being delayed as fuck since the rework, but an adc is still able to kill me so fast and that from a high range

When you play Mordekaiser botlane you realise why you actually need an adc in your team If you play Morde, you need people to enable you, whoever it is you need someone and if your team is braindead and suicide or never group you will lose the game

If you play an ADC (at least i do) you see the contrast between playing an immobile melee, you don't need anyone to enable you you can rightclick from 550 range without any problems

this does not mean an adc can 1v5, it means that an adc can kill someone alone without any issue in some situations, while in those situations mordekaiser or other immobile melees would not reach them

and that is the sole reasons adcs are played in every game, the source of their DPS is the most reliable one

AirKingNeoDec 31, 20171 votes

Most things in league are reliable. Even many skillshots are reliable.

ElohavenDec 30, 20171 votes

We're not comparing runes. The base stats of champions, inability to customize early game resistances to team comps, coupled with the amount of damage and synergy of the new rune system is problematic.

Critmaster GarenJan 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Right now, the main issue is that all classes are gaining items too fast and the numbers in the runes needs to be tuned.

right now, the main issue is that bot lane has the cheapest itemization in the game. this isnt something that has only been going on since the rune changes, but the entire course of the past season and people arent just pointing at marksmen for the past couple month, but almost the entire past year for good reason.

support items have always been cheap, but gold generation has been notably ramped up over the course of the years, and riot pushed for increased support item synergy with marksmen. support items dont grant ap or effects that benefit other classes anymore. they made them specifically for supports to protect marksmen. this means marksmen benefit more from support power spikes.
riot has added more sources of sustain outside of the expensive lifesteal items for to the game. be it support itemization like or fleet footwork (formerly warlords). this allows them to skip the 3500 price range lifesteal items and go straight for greedy crit/lethality stacking builds.
crit itemization is at the same time the cheapest carry iteization in the game while it outscales the items of all other carry types. three crit items are a good 500 to 1000 gold cheaper than three bruiser items, or three mage items since finished zeal items are a fucking 300 to 600 gold cheaper than the items of other carry types, despite their cubic scaling. even assassin itemization which is the next cheapest on the list (and picked up by marksmen when its not crit stacking) is more expensive with 2900 gold for lethality items vs. 2600 gold for zeal items.
bot lane has the most potential for gold generation on the map. turret first blood and two champions on bot lane can easily snowball the hell out of the game in favour of the winning bot lane off one single fight.

combine all these factors, and then you get a situation where a supposedly lategame scaling class of champions hits their main power spike 10 minutes too early in most games. maybe not all games. but almost every game its the bot lane that snowballs out of control. it takes a miracle for you to snowball another lane harder than bot and be able to have some agency over the game.

hitting marksmen items with a massive price increase and possibly nerfing turret first blood again is exactly what needs to happen. marksmen mains always try to shift the blame on other champion types.

"marksmen are too strong only because supports are too strong."

"bot lane only snowballs because junglers are too strong"

"marksmen are unkillable because tanks protect too well."

every single time these fucking excuses. the entire current situation is a result of bot lane marksmen abusing lethality for early power spikes since it was introduced and pushing crit reliant bot lane marksmen out of the meta, and riots attempt to "fix" the situation by making crit items insanely cheap and have crit marksmen power spike the same time as lethality marksmen.

hit zeal items with a 200 gold to 300 gold price increase.
prevent from stacking
nerf lethality for ranged champions, so the lever doesnt just flip from a crit meta on bot lane to a lethality meta again.

these are the two things that need to happen.

AbsoluenceJan 5, 20181 votes

Let me break it down to ya.

This is the list of roles by importance, as statistics suggest:

Honestly when a team comes down to relying on a Support carry, you are in for a hell of a trouble. Basically, either the support out carries all other roles or is the only thing keeping the other team fighting. I really do find support carries the hardest to defeat.

ElohavenJan 5, 20181 votes

No, stats don't suggest that.

Granted, ADCs are important but junglers and midlaners are equally as important for game viability, impact, and objectives. Why else would Yasuo, Katarina, Kayn, Zed, Zoe, Udyr, Shyvanna, and more champions still be viable or strong.

Why don't all players shift to ADC mains?

All roles are equally important.

Critmaster GarenJan 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, stats don't suggest that.

Granted, ADCs are important but junglers and midlaners are equally as important for game viability, impact, and objectives. Why else would Yasuo, Katarina, Kayn, Zed, Zoe, Udyr, Shyvanna, and more champions still be viable or strong.

Why don't all players shift to ADC mains?

All roles are equally important.

so you mean to tell me that those crit stacking adc havent been a problem since last season?

most of the snowball comes out of bot lane, and not jungle or mid lane.

AbsoluenceJan 5, 20181 votes

Elovan don't know what stats is. Leave him to his oblivion.

ElohavenJan 5, 20181 votes

You're not even reading my posts.

First of all, I never said ADCs weren't an issue. Read my post.

Second of all, no - last season enchanters were an issue due to ardent censer, excessive shielding, and poke lanes were preferred. Crit-stacking ADCs weren't an issue - only Twitch. Crit-stacking ADCs were harder to kill due to supports being a nuisance and excessive peel.

It was right after the assassin meta.

Now, most of the snowball comes from botlane?

Midlane snowballs equally as hard as botlane and is one of the primary reasons games end as well.