Remove "last hit assistance" from Zed's passive

NodirjonSattarov··20 votes·5,834 views

Now, by "last hit assistance" I mean the below 50% HP -> 6/8/10% bonus magic damage to minions. What is amusing is that this doesn't have a CD meaning that if there are 3 minions below 50% then he can apply the passive to all 3 of them.

Consider the following scenario to further elucidate the strength:

At 10 minutes melee minions have 585.5 HP so when they're below 292.75 Zed will about level 8 or 9 but let's round DOWN and say he's level 8. I looked up Master Zed player, Laceration, at a game where he farmed decently well and performed decently to try to be as unbiased as possible. At 10 minutes he has built Youmoos in this particular game and has additionally purchased a long sword for a total of 65 bonus AD.

> Level 8 Zed Base AD: 82.6AD Bonus AD: 65 Total AD: 147.6

Now, to calculate damage done to minions below 50% HP.

> Level 6 passive damage: 6% MAX HP So: (585.5)(.06) = 35.13 magic damage

Finally, total damage to minions below 50% with items and passive:

> 35.13 + 147.6 = 182.74 damage

So a little over 62% of the damage to minions below 50% is produced by the passive. It would make sense if they intended this to be a little assistance for lower elo players to last hit under tower however for high elo players that typically don't have trouble last hitting this is simply a bonus, an example is how low elo players don't typically know how to push efficiently but high elo players can abuse this. Similarly to how low elo players don't know how to use Ryze properly but the higher in elo you go the more he's abused (and even more so in professional play). The difference is that Ryze doesn't have a "handicap" for low elo. By no means am I comparing the two champions themselves, I am simply comparing the fundamentals of their gameplay with respect to influence in elo.

21 Comments

WorksAtAGayBar8 votes

It's very annoying, since shoving him under tower should give you an advantage but he just farms safely and laughs as he gets almost all of them with his manaless spells and autos.

nomani2 votes

It does give you an advantage almost all of his matchups are ranged and if he's using his manaless spells and autos to kill them that means you literally get to harass him for free. If he's actually farming all of them for free under tower without no punishment you're not playing properly.

Aulzeren0r6 votes

See, your math is just fine up until the end. The passive, of 6% max health when under 50%, only does (35.13/182.74) * 100% = 19.2% of the total damage of the auto. What you're saying is that Zed's auto will do 62% of a minion's remaining health at this point, which is true. What's important, though, is that even without the passive, his auto does (147.6/279.75) * 100% = 50.4% of the minion's health anyway. At that window, even a bronze player is likely to get the CS. Where the passive is important is in his mid- and late-game, where it offers just enough more damage in his combo to make it possible for him to successfully pop a carry while giving him kill pressure against full tanks as well.

As a side note, youmuu's costs 2900 gold, so having youmuu's and a long sword at 10 minutes is far beyond "unbiased".

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

As a side note, youmuu's costs 2900 gold, so having youmuu's and a long sword at 10 minutes is far beyond "unbiased"

I only said Youmoo's because it is where the player, Laceration, was at around 10 minute in a game where he wasn't blatantly fed.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=laceration

His game was a day ago where he went 5/6/4 and had 6.8cs/min

Okay, I should have not included the damage from base+bonus AD, my bad. That 19.2% is huge though, you can't disregard the impact it has with last hitting. If the passive is intended to apply additional damage mid/late game then make it less reliable to CS with in the early game. Even if the individual doesn't know how the passive works will still occasionally benefit from it by inadvertently last hitting.

IP Masquerena4 votes

I know he needs it for champs, so it can stay, just remove it's effect on minions and done, balanced.

Most problems people have with the passive is that it works on creeps, which it shouldn't.

Warlord Rhinark5 votes

Better nerf Shen.

[sg-ezreal]

feintfiend2 votes

If you're abusing your range its only fair he has some way to deal with it

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

Abusing range? Is there a way to use range without abusing it?

Rathar Dashing2 votes

I think it's weird that Zed's passive has NEVER been touched by the balance team.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l2ZL4n97,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-08T23:47:06.234+0000)

I think it's weird that Zed's passive has NEVER been touched by the balance team.

this. This aspect of his passive has been criticized plenty in the past.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

I'm just curious why it hasn't ever been used as a balance lever. They seem to always either change the damage on his Q or R, or mess around with his W mechanics.

SmileyTurtle41 votes

shit you put some thought into this one. riot read dis^

Who Fed Ru1 votes

the champ went to shit enough already after they basically nerfed all his runes and duskblade

NotAPurpleFrog1 votes

Not just to minions.

MarkedOfKane1 votes

I don't see what the big deal is over Zed having that ability when Riot is releasing and updating champions that basically do the same thing.

Annie Cassiopeia Irelia Kalista Fizz

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

Annie? She doesn't have last hit assistance. She gets some mana refunded.

Cass's E is about the same as her auto damage so she has to aa-> E correctly to get the minion. There is no assistance.

Irelia Q is straight bullshit. Not sure why they implemented 100% damage to minions.

I'm not sure where you're going with Kalista or Fizz. I'm pretty sure Fizz doesn't have last hit assistance but has to auto the same target with his thing applied which is vastly different than Zed auto-ing a minion below 50%. Kalista has mana return.

MarkedOfKane1 votes

{quoted}

Annie? She doesn't have last hit assistance. She gets some mana refunded.

Cass's E is about the same as her auto damage so she has to aa-> E correctly to get the minion. There is no assistance.

Irelia Q is straight bullshit. Not sure why they implemented 100% damage to minions.

I'm not sure where you're going with Kalista or Fizz. I'm pretty sure Fizz doesn't have last hit assistance but has to auto the same target with his thing applied which is vastly different than Zed auto-ing a minion below 50%. Kalista has mana return.

Annie's CD also gets halved. Fizz's W deals bonus damage, resets on kill and restores mana, Kalista resets and restores mana on kill.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

How is that last hit assistance?

MarkedOfKane1 votes

{quoted}

How is that last hit assistance?

Because it literally is?

-Resets on kill -Refunds your mana on kill -Deals more damage than usual -Does not only apply to last hitting champions meaning it's intended purpose is for last hitting minions

{quoted}

How is that last hit assistance?

Then tell me how Zed's passive is last hit assistance.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

It is quite literally 40 free magic damage. I take it that you think that TF blue card is also last hit assistance instead of resource management.

Want to know the difference between the champions you listed vs Zed? Zed gets it for free whereas the other champions have to use abilities to get the benefit.

MarkedOfKane1 votes

{quoted}

It is quite literally 40 free magic damage. I take it that you think that TF blue card is also last hit assistance instead of resource management.

Want to know the difference between the champions you listed vs Zed? Zed gets it for free whereas the other champions have to use abilities to get the benefit.

No I wouldn't totally count TF's blue card as last hit assistance. Its great for last hitting however.

So you're really drawing the line at having to push a button makes it no longer last his assistance? If so, then why did you accept Irelia's as last hit assistance when it does the same thing as everybody else I listed except it doesn't refund the mana cost?

It is quite literally 40 free magic damage

The other abilities are also free damage...

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