Undefined progress in the Honor system

Neosphoros·Nov 26, 2018·1 votes·1,058 views

Have you noticed that almost everything in the game is based on some known progress indicator? This is the case in the promotion of the level of our profile, the same is true for the promotion of heroes and the same is in the game itself. Why, then, nobody knows what it is and what indicator depends on the positions of honor that we gain? We do not even know how many votes we have from a certain type and nobody knows how many votes we have at all. Why is it helpful to inform us about the amount of honors we have received in a given game and why is it helpful to inform us about the number of honors just after logging into the game? Do we have to record all these votes on a piece of paper to be able to count them later? Is not that funny. It is like information without information.

20 Comments

NeosphorosNov 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-11-29T19:07:17.598+0000)

Honor progression is undefined. It weights different things then just # of honor received. For example you get a bit extra progression if every player on a team honors. Heres the FAQ

But how you can expect that everything is right if those informations (how many positive voices we have) is hidden from us.

Exactly the same is with MMR... RIOT force us to believe, that animal which standing a front of us - is a pink unicorn.

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000) Again we can see the systems end goal and compaire it to that. Do negative players who get punished lose honor? Yes. Do Players who frequently get honor grow? Yes. Not an act of complete faith. If you want to say riots lying to us on how it works then the burden of proof is on you. You saying we cant trust the guys who made the system to tell us how their system works requires us to take you on faith.

I'm not saying that RIOT is lying, but I'm not saying that all his actions are transparent, which means that they can be honest. If we can not verify something, we can not be sure that we are treated equally with others - justly.

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

Checkpoints mark progression. Why do you even need to know that you have x amount of honors for z?

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kyIfr0qN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-01T15:01:22.913+0000)

Checkpoints mark progression. Why do you even need to know that you have x amount of honors for z?

"...we can not verify something, we can not be sure that we are treated equally with others - justly."

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

And everyone progresses at a different rate; so the number doesn't matter. There isn't a 500 honors = 1 checkpoint. All displaying the numbers will do is lead to posts complaining "I have gotten 2k gg honors and am still honor lvl 1/3/4 checkpoint whatever".

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

...so, why?

Why one player can be promoted with 500 but another from 1000 votes (from same level)? Is this not a favoritism one players over others?

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

Not really. You can argue it is as people who behave will progress faster than people who are making snide comments and being reported.

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

So it simply means that both amounts of votes (honors and reports) should be simply known.

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

Quantity of reports can be requested via a support ticket. It will give you information after a month of waiting.

Quantity of honors simply doesn't matter, so why waste resources?

Neither needs to be public knowledge.

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kyIfr0qN,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T15:43:45.967+0000)

Quantity of reports can be requested via a support ticket. It will give you information after a month of waiting.

Quantity of honors simply doesn't matter, so why waste resources?

Neither needs to be public knowledge.

"Nothing really matter" and "nothing can be to public knowledge"... our games history, profile progresion, honor lvl and how it works... but then we will have to ask ourselfs if any rules could have any sens and if the games we are playing are fair-play?

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

What?

EleshakaiDec 1, 20181 votes

This guy's a conspiracy theorist with an anti-Riot propaganda agenda. Don't take what he says seriously. You'll be better off for it.

(in another thread he claimed that Riot disconnecting players randomly 'as a joke' was more likely than their internet failing)

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20182 votes

<.<

I just commented on that thread to you. What odd timing.

EleshakaiDec 1, 20181 votes

It was meant to be. [slayer-jinx-catface]

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

I have tried to say... that with point of Eleshakai view - we do not have to know nothing to play... but gaming without knowing about conditions could we call as a fair?

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

If you are referring to the afk, then yes; it is fair. Why? Because 9 other people have potential issues that could happen too. Shit happens. Power outages happen during storms.

If you mean reports and what not, the only condition you need to be aware of is the condition of "Don't be a jerk."

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

I was referring to general issues.

In principle - a paradigm:

Knowledge about the conditions of action makes the game in which we are - it becomes more understandable.

Imperial PandaaDec 1, 20181 votes

Knowledge about conditions doesn't make things more understandable. If it did, there wouldn't be war in the world. There wouldn't be people getting punished. There wouldn't be people acting like dicks.

NeosphorosDec 1, 20181 votes

...and the world would be wonderful ;)

NeosphorosDec 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T21:31:06.543+0000)

@Honor -shrugs- doesn't impact gameplay so I don't care much. The only thing I miss is being able to give people honorable opponents. Its a system that is shaped by player decisions so there no real control. End of the day you can still see when you got honored in a game, you still get rewards, and toxic folks lose out on this free stuff.

As I have already noted, the tone of your words is very strange. Each time you trying to justify RIOT by suggesting that it is should be not important for us how the game is created, whether its elements are logical and whether if we have the same right to enjoy the same pleasure - we have to accept it as it is.

Why?

@devs set milestone. no man...you don't get it at all. If you make a system to work off a curve you can have a 100% unbiased system that only provides max rewards to a small %. There is literally no reason to make it unfair to any 1 player and provide extra help to another. I don't need to know the system or the math or the reason why because of simple application of logic.

Situation 1. You want the system to be fair and reward any and everyone who is "honorable. Solution. You make a system then that any player who avoids toxic behavior can with enough games played get to max rewards. This is what riot claims. (in Riot FAQ on honor. "If I get no Honors, do I still level up? You will. All you have to do is show up and try to win in all your games.") This means that if you just grind away enough honor you eventually will see max level.

Situation 2. I'm a greedy dev and I do not want to give away a bunch of free shit. Solution. Put the honor system on a curve. I now set what percentile of players will get max level rewards. Now only the folks who play a lot and get the most honor see it and a majority of players are going to be in what ever tier of honor I break the %'s down by.

Situation 3. Im a greedy dev and I don't want to give away free shit. Solution. I set it to be rng and randomly favor growths of some players and randomly cripple growths of other players.

Situation 3 is less effective then 2. First. It does not make the system function for anything, your not seeing high honor players get rewarded, a toxic account might randomly be selected for high gains. 2. Its RNG so as a dev I cant calculate exactly how many people will or will not get free stuff. If I made it a curve I have an exact % of the players and thus I can look at how many active players I have to calculate how much stuff I give away and at any point readjust my percentiles. You see? I don't need to have the exact math, just an understanding of different solutions and what they would accomplish.

As players how do we check which system it is? Look at relatively non toxic accounts. Look at honor level and # of games played. See If there is a trend of higher # games = higher honor level.

So simply it is possible to say that you are writing as a greedy dev, but I'm - a player - I'm expecting that I have the same chances to achieve "TOP" like others - now it is possible to understand that this is impossible becouse nobody knows what is the formula and it is nothing to do with tolerance, skills and experience.