Mechanically difficult champions aren't rewarding due to excessive damage/low-skill counters

Emerald Fang··5 votes·1,966 views

(This is a bit disorganized; I'm sorry)

There's nothing like perfectly executing your combo and abilities to dodge 3 ults, position perfectly to contest an objective, and get a few collateral CS in the process, just to have someone boop you to death due to the overabundance of 250% critical strikes.

Or having an assassin 100-0 you in the blink of an eye, without you having any advance warning.

Or having a full tank able to perma-CC you and kill you at the same time.

Mechanically difficult champions constantly get stomped by champions that can run at you and kill you immediately. Take a Kaisa who can have perfect positioning in lane, beautiful CS and trading, etc. Then they kill the enemy ADC and live with 15% health left, because they played very sensibly, used ultimate at the right time to position themself away from the support's damage, kited the ADC to survive. Then, as they are backing in a bush or under tower, happy about their success, Master Yi runs at 800 units per second towards the Kaisa, boops her once (critting for 300+ damage after 15 minutes of the game), and then Q's out because there happens to be minions nearby he can use as a free escape. People think that's a flashy, high-skill play for some reason.

Why play an ADC like Kaisa who requires mechanical skill and smart ultimate timing, when I can just play Caitlyn, siege their tower with traps, and then get my support to play Morgana so I can insta-trap while rooted, deal too much damage, and win with 50% less brainpower used? The only reason I play Kai'sa over Caitlyn is because I personally like the mechanical effort she takes, and I don't like mechanically simple champs.

I ask for advice for climbing out of bronze. You know what the number 1 response I get is? Take a guess, is it: a) Focus on getting 8 CS per minute; farming can win the lane in low ELO. b) Make sure you work on positioning. Know the enemy's limits, read up on champion ranges, etc. c) Objectives are key, towers are more important than kills. d) Queue with a duo, because it decreases the anomalies like AFKs and trolls on your team which can gradually increase winrate.

Nope, it's actually secret letter e: e) Play Annie or Lux; they're really simple champions, require no skill and you can carry easily.

We are playing a game where the best advice to climb in ranked, a mode where the only thing you can control is PURELY your mechanical skill at the role you main and the game in general, is to pick a champion with little to no mechanical skill.

No wonder ELO hell is a thing... people are just spamming faceroll champions and never learning how to truly use champions that require some skill, so when they face even the slightest adversity in lane matchups they get tilted that they can't deal with someone like a Fiora, who requires BARELY more skill than someone like a garen.

Critical Strike needs to be either SEVERELY reduced across the board or replaced with a better system. Make all items with CHC grant CHD instead, literally do not care if I take 1200 crit damage per auto as long as I know that they are about to crit and I had a chance to get the hell away from them. I don't know why crit % doesn't match the exact amount of autos that crit. For example, 20% = 1 in 5 autos crit, always. 50% means every other attack is a critical strike. Why is it still RNG, it seems like the easiest change ever to make yet it still hasn't happened.

And BY THE WAY, Riot tries to disguise the disgusting amount of damage in the game with flashy new champions.

Pyke is not flashy, he is not that mechanically difficult. He has a resetting assassinate which is X-shaped hopefully due to the design, because making a skillshot specially shaped does not make it any more skillful when landed (except for Velkoz when he uses geometry). Hell, Kai'sa isn't particularly mechanically difficult, but she does take some skill to work well.

Some champions that legitimately have very high skill ceilings include: Yasuo , Katarina , Azir , Cassiopeia (maybe), Kalista , Nidalee , Thresh ,and MAYBE Viktor. Some champions with very low skill ceilings (on the champion themself, not on the lane matchup or game skills like positioning) include: Annie , Fizz , DrMundo , Jax , Lux , MasterYi , Veigar , Warwick , and XinZhao.

They ALL do ridiculous damage. The only difference is that you need to know how to play the higher skill champions a LOT better to get the full damage potential. Even professionals haven't reached the skill ceiling of some of these champions and they never will, it's just so damn high. But the issue is that when they're sub-perfect with the champion, they deal less damage than someone with mastery of a simpler champion. A pro player could be ridiculously good at mid lane and know how to play perfectly, but with League of counterpicks the name of the game these days, someone can just pick a really simple champ like Annie to completely stomp on someone like Yasuo or Katarina. That pro player might have been amazing if they had chosen Annie, but since they chose a higher skill champ they already set themselves at a disadvantage because there's so many more opportunities to mess up and lose out on potential trades/picks.

But nah, let's play Zyra support so we can zone off the entire lane forever, deal more damage than the ADC at every point in the early game and possibly mid-game, and have a root that is double autoattack range and barely fucking visible on the map (even with colorblind mode on it has the tendency to blend into the map especially on certain skins).

13 Comments

Aptest4 votes

Let me ask you two basic question, and one follow up question:

1 should low mechanical skill champions be viable? 2 should high mechanical skill champions be viable? 3 what does answering both 1 and 2 mean, in terms of the power relation between the two types?

here is a bonus question: does playing Caitlin in bronze 2 require less skill than playing Kaisa in bronze 2?

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Let me ask you two basic question, and one follow up question:

1 should low mechanical skill champions be viable? 2 should high mechanical skill champions be viable? 3 what does answering both 1 and 2 mean, in terms of the power relation between the two types?

here is a bonus question: does playing Caitlin in bronze 2 require less skill than playing Kaisa in bronze 2?

Yes, Yes, and yes IMO.

Low skill champions should be viable as reliable counterpicks who lack much ability to outplay or be outplayed and shine when part of a competent team.

High skill champions should be viable as skill-based champions who have a lot of ability to outplay and shine in splitting or dueling situations.

At a baseline caitlyn and kai sa have the same required skills, but caitlyn doesnt have a whole of outplay potential... where as kai sa has a great deal of potential to outplay and BE outplayed. Compared to caitlyn, kai sa is much riskier without as much reward.

Aptest2 votes

If Kaisa and Caitlin have, as you've put it, different use cases, than the reward for picking the "high skill" kaisa should manifest when her specific use is useful in the context of the team composition and strategy.

The answer to the question, "why play the high skill and fun kaisa, when I could just play Cait and win", is self evident: you've detailed the answer yourself.

Cait requires the same amount of skill as Kaisa. What does it mean? it means there are some things that require skill, that a cait player will do in the match, and a Kaisa player will not... and vice versa.

remakoro3 votes

Didnt read after you suggested that Kaisa is mechanically difficult champion.

Paroe2 votes

I think making it so x/10 autos are crits would be a strange mechanic for crit. However, crit being replaced entirely with % increased bonus AD? Effectively similar, much more controllable. A marksman with 600AD at full build with 1.5 attack speed is infinitely better than a marksman with 50% crit, 250% crit damage, 300AD, and 1.5 attack speed. You KNOW what youre getting into and their numbers are largely static.

Although im of the opinion that external crit (such as that on items) can be removed entirely, with champions such as ashe and yasuo getting their crit-scaling replaced with an AD amp for yasuo and AD scaling slow for ashe.

Hyquiem1 votes

{quoted}

I think making it so x/10 autos are crits would be a strange mechanic for crit. However, crit being replaced entirely with % increased bonus AD? Effectively similar, much more controllable. A marksman with 600AD at full build with 1.5 attack speed is infinitely better than a marksman with 50% crit, 250% crit damage, 300AD, and 1.5 attack speed. You KNOW what youre getting into and their numbers are largely static.

Although im of the opinion that external crit (such as that on items) can be removed entirely, with champions such as ashe and yasuo getting their crit-scaling replaced with an AD amp for yasuo and AD scaling slow for ashe.

But the posts not about crit... it’s about why mechanical have now just become useless even if they are played right b/c easy champions beat them

Emerald Fang1 votes

It's about both and I edited the title to be more accurate.

saltran1 votes

You guys know that Ashe crit does? Ashe has rng crit like EVERY ADC, the only thing that changes is that instead of extra dmg, when Ashe crits she slows more.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

You guys know that Ashe crit does? Ashe has rng crit like EVERY ADC, the only thing that changes is that instead of extra dmg, when Ashe crits she slows more.

... Yes. And thats actually very aweful as a mechanic because the point of crit is to hurt more. Uncoupling ashe from crit will do her much good. But thats just my opinion on crit - that it can, at this current point with out current damage, be removed entirely with only 5-10% attack speed buffs to compensate.

AR URF2 votes

in before "wtf you talking about Yasuo takes no skill to play" people come in.

saltran1 votes

Well, the Boards were screaming for weeks that Vayne was a braindead champ so I wouldn't be surprised if they also think that Yasuo is easy.

AR URF1 votes

{quoted}

Well, the Boards were screaming for weeks that Vayne was a braindead champ so I wouldn't be surprised if they also think that Yasuo is easy.

Yeah that whole thing comes from "well vayne just right clicks" Literally people that say that are assassin mains.

Ranmaru2 votes

Kaisa isnt hard though. I should know because I play her sometimes

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