Please add SOME sort of LP loss reduction when you have an AFK.

Emerald Fang··99 votes·2,470 views

There's so many scenarios where AFK's could happen in lower and even higher ELO that it makes a positive winrate harder to achieve. Carrying a 4v5 sure takes skill but it's impractical because that one man makes a huge difference (especially if they are the tank or ADC). I almost have to win 60% of my games just to break EVEN because I know 1 in 5 will likely have someone AFK on my team (hopefully the enemy team).

Here is a system I am proposing: If someone goes AFK on your team and you surrender within 5 - 10 (undecided) minutes of their disconnection, your LP loss will be reduced by 33%. Additionally, the AFK player will take a 33% increase in losses. Note that an AFK before 15 minutes will automatically trigger this surrender at 15 minutes (it's a one-time deal though). The 5 minute window allows for allies to reconnect (for example if your duo partner disconnects you can chat "he/she's having bad connection, he/she will be back on in a bit" so they don't surrender. However a team can't prolong this. For example, if there is an AFK and the ally team was winning, about to win, and after 10 minutes they get aced and are going to lose, they can't just pop an ff just to reduce their LP. It's a risky undertaking if ahead but good to have if behind and then someone ragequits or has to leave early on.

_AFK penalties are also a bit light. By increasing LP loss there's a bigger incentive to stay in the game and try rather than ragequitting. Maybe intentional feeders may rise but the report button is there and maybe Riot would have incentive to look at reports more carefully.

Also if someone is AFK at 7 minutes for example, and the five minute window can't happen, a one-time ff will automatically open at 15 minutes. If voted no, no LP loss reduction will occur.

HOWEVER (added later): If the enemy team has an AFK, you will gain 33% fewer LP upon winning the game (if you still lose then losses are normal). This is to keep it fair. It's much easier to win a 4v5 and getting the same amount of LP means that luck somewhat plays a factor in your games (if they have an AFK then you got lucky and gained some LP for free).

Promos would still count as a loss.

TLDR: AFK's inhibit lower-ELO climbing, as well as further establishing ELO hell. A slight loss of LP when allies are AFK (provided the team surrenders within 5 minutes).

Thank you.

58 Comments

Kieferr6 votes

That would lead to players bullying teammates who are having bad games/feedeing to go quit, so they can benefit from lower lp loss. Which in turn will drastically increase toxicity and verbal abuse.

Velzard of Koz29 votes

Why does this argument always come up. Thinking this would occur on large scale is extreme irrational exaggeration. Toxicity is still here and people still ask you to afk If you do bad as they'd rather play 4v5 than 4v6 and yet people don't afk due to that. Not everyone is so unstable they would do it and many of those who would are looking for excuse to afk anyway.

When remakes were supposed to be released, many people, people like you, instantly jumped on the first (stupid) argument that those who pick something non-traditional will be flamed to afk in the first minutes so that premades can remake. Now we have remake and I can't see this apocalyptic scenario coming true. Not everyone is manipulative psycho. Not everyone is unstable. So I doubt it will happen in such big measure that we will need to bend to this Nirvana fallacy people like to bring up mindlessly.

devdev4631 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6XNXd3B4,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-06-16T20:47:43.479+0000)

Why does this argument always come up. Thinking this would occur on large scale is extreme irrational exaggeration. Toxicity is still here and people still ask you to afk If you do bad as they'd rather play 4v5 than 4v6 and yet people don't afk due to that. Not everyone is so unstable they would do it and many of those who would are looking for excuse to afk anyway.

When remakes were supposed to be released, many people, people like you, instantly jumped on the first (stupid) argument that those who pick something non-traditional will be flamed to afk in the first minutes so that premades can remake. Now we have remake and I can't see this apocalyptic scenario coming true. Not everyone is manipulative psycho. Not everyone is unstable. So I doubt it will happen in such big measure that we will need to bend to this Nirvana fallacy people like to bring up mindlessly.

So people are already toxic. Your argument is that incentivising toxicity shouldn't be an issue because what.... It's already as toxic as it could possibly be?? Not true at all, and really the only way your argument holds water.

Just because people are already toxic doesn't mean they should be incentivised to be more toxic by being rewarded with less lp loss if they succeed in being toxic enough to get the person to actually afk.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

You do realize people are also toxic due to AFKs? This solution will add a reason to be toxic as well as removing one. The question is: Are more people toxic due to AFKs or due to non-traditional picks?

Also saying I claim that we are already toxic enough that we cannot be any more toxic shows you have missed my point real hard. The point was that the con of this system is emotionally weaker people who would AFK. I pointed out these people are already there, they already can be abused in many ways -> forcing to dodge in champ select, forcing to AFK early for remake, forcing to AFK later. Counterargument is that adding this system will suddenly make these abuse cases sky-rocket into so many cases they would grow into relevant issue and I am asking why? Why this would change it so much when Remake did not?

devdev4631 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6XNXd3B4,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-17T13:36:55.600+0000)

You do realize people are also toxic due to AFKs? This solution will add a reason to be toxic as well as removing one. The question is: Are more people toxic due to AFKs or due to non-traditional picks?

Also saying I claim that we are already toxic enough that we cannot be any more toxic shows you have missed my point real hard. The point was that the con of this system is emotionally weaker people who would AFK. I pointed out these people are already there, they already can be abused in many ways -> forcing to dodge in champ select, forcing to AFK early for remake, forcing to AFK later. Counterargument is that adding this system will suddenly make these abuse cases sky-rocket into so many cases they would grow into relevant issue and I am asking why? Why this would change it so much when Remake did not?

Yeah people can be toxic because of afks... What's your point? The situation we are discussing here is a team that got smashed and is ready to give up, so someone would want to get an ally to leave so they don't lose as much lp due to the shitters holding them back.

Or do you mean a situation where someone just leaves and you surrender or lose because of that? This doesn't really make sense... Who are they being toxic towards? The people who afkd?

The people on your team want you to afk after you have a bad game because they get rewarded for it if they succeed in making you afk, causing more instances of people flaming you when you do poorly. This is not contingent upon whether said person getting flamed actually leaves or not. The issue is the increased toxicity, not increased amounts of people who afk due to being flamed.

Cavesloth2 votes

People will always bring up arguments like this, this board is full of contrarians who just like to argue for the sake of arguing. Thank goodness there are intelligent people like you to defend the people coming up with good ideas from these trolls.

Kieferr1 votes

I'd rather be hated for what I believe in, than to be loved for being a mindless drone like you who agrees with everything you see on the boards.

Cavesloth1 votes

ROFL. I don't even know where to begin with that one, I'm laughing too hard.

crippler381 votes

It's an argument that always comes up because in the few instances it WOULD happen, well there are some people who are not too emotionally strong playing video games.

They should be stronger, but they aren't, and the fact that this opens up a reason for people to be assholes means that even MORE people will be assholes.

Should they be reported? heck yeah, will they be reported? Probably.

Doesn't mean we should give people a reason to be toxic besides their own frustrations though, being toxic to someone in order to encourage them to make you lose LP gives them a reason.

Some people just need a reason, especially when the risks are low, again I don't think a reason should be given.

Another reason I think this would be better off not checked is because then what's to stop people from wanting a similar system put in for inters? I know we all would want to lose less LP if someone on our team is trolling or inting or whatever but that opens up the cases of people who are just bad being targeted just so the others won't lose LP.

People are jerks if they have a reason, don't give them a reason.

Velzard of Koz1 votes
  1. Do you know what else happens in few instances? People losing game and bunch of LP due to later AFK. Why these people should be ignored but the few that would be forced to AFK should not?

  2. Even MORE people will be assholes? Or less, though. Imagine someone losing multiple games due to afk. They go to another game and nearly single smallest mistake will tilt them into being assholes. If they get feeling that the lose of AFK wasn't equal to that one they deserve, they will very likely not be toxic. Major source of toxicity is feeling you are losing injustifiedly and one such reason toxic individual can feel this way is losing due to AFK.

2a) We can argue that the person on the edge of tilt should get a pause from playing. The same way we may restrict the person who would be unstable and would AFK, so this is status quo.

2b) Point of this suggestion is that it's more complex. So I am not claming it will explicitly be less, but that we don't know. You cannot explicitly say there will be more toxicity as people will get reason to be toxic as well as losing one.

2c) I'd like to point out If you pick something non-traditional, people can force you to dodge. You lose promo point or some LP while they get away with it. So on certain scale, we already have this system in champ select. Does something remotely apocalyptic happen?

People are jerks if they have a reason, don't give them a reason.

Yet again, one thing you are missing: People are jerks if they have a reason, let's remove one such reason.

crippler381 votes

That's adding one that's more likely to occur then.

They can add it if they want, I'm just aware that doing so will give more people a reason to bully their teammates and be toxic if they are losing, and losing happens more often than afks.

I would prefer a system that more harshly punishes AFK and repeat AFKers by barring them from ranked for a long while or something.

Giving incentive, no matter how small, to someone to leave the game because it's not going well is very likely to lead to teammates being more toxic if they're losing.

Complexity won't change that people are very likely to try to bully people out of ranked for being bad, nobody can force me to dodge at this moment in time because I won't dodge. I do not agree with 'being forced to dodge' because that is a decision made by you, the player.

Teammates being toxic worse than teammates being strange and doing something you don't agree with.

I would prefer it if the remake system lasted a bit later into the game, like say your teammate reconnects then disconnects forever just before the game asks you for a remake, and then the game never asks you for a remake. I also think that adding a system to reduce LP loss from afks would be nice, don't get me wrong I would like to not lose points because someone who I happened to be matched with is either an asshole, on a potato, or something came up and they really have to go.

Maybe when a game is flagged for this AFK lp guard surrender, the whole team could get reported and flagged for review. This special report would be worth nothing unless any toxicity were to be found (so if the team was not bullying the afk before they leave nothing happens) and this would allow those players to be punished if they manage to bully someone into leaving since they themselves cannot report if they afk.

After all, there can't be more AFK games than games that are being reported right?

Velzard of Koz1 votes

I would prefer a system that more harshly punishes AFK and repeat AFKers by barring them from ranked for a long while or something.

And what exactly will the system accomplish? You can lose five games in row due to AFK and they might be five different people afking for the first time, leaving with no proper punishment. I'd prefer system that helps victims of AFKers directly and actually works. And yet again, what makes you believe that people will be unhandedly more toxic because of this but remake somehow ppassed without big tide of toxicity. Paranoia?

I do not agree with 'being forced to dodge' because that is a decision made by you, the player.

Okay, sorry, I would try being polite, but here I just lost it and am officially doubting you having IQ high enough for me to continue in this discussion. You are afraid of people being forced to AFK but forced to dodge does not exist as that is choice of player. Half of my brain just died reading it.

crippler381 votes

Fair enough that I'm stupid, I just don't agree with anything that could possibly make any more people toxic.

I dislike toxic people in my games, ranked or normal, more than I dislike people who go afk.

I prefer to play with people who aren't being a hissy and pissy, that's how I do.

Kieferr1 votes

Lol, talking about a "nirvana fallacy" when I've counted with both hands numerous ad hominems in your response... And you expect me to take you seriously? I may not be as educated as you are on this topic, but I've done my best to present what I believe is a likely consequence of such a system, one that has "abuse" written all over it. And all you can do is call me stupid and mindless. Oh, I'm so sorry I stated an opinion you didn't like, you bigot. Let me make it up to you by starting some more threads about why yasuos E needs a 6 second cd and every rework in the past 3 years should be completely reverted. Maybe that will score me some internet points. F off.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

LOL.

  1. I didn't call you explicitly midless or stupid. I said this argument is brought up mindlessly (like buzzwords) and that it is stupid argument due to the irrational exaggeration.

  2. I suppose the thing with Yasuo and rework is supposed to be some bigoted (oh, the irony) assumption about me. Try several different scenarios, you'll hit one.

Cavesloth2 votes

Not to mention that hopefully the honor update will also help toxicity in general, meaning this kind of bullying may become much rarer in the future anyway.

The Lexer3 votes

But the person afking wouldn't be benefited, so there is no reason to afk. In fact, it's even more worth it to stay because you can report and there is solid evidence that the flamer will be punished.

OlafRagnarson1 votes

{quoted}

That would lead to players bullying teammates who are having bad games/feedeing to go quit, so they can benefit from lower lp loss. Which in turn will drastically increase toxicity and verbal abuse.

What a brain dead argument. So you think that instead of having a chance to win, a chance to come back, too many players are going to take for sure loss just so they can lose a little less? Stupid.

Kieferr1 votes

Oh, I'm so sorry for giving an opinion that is contrary to the collective hivemind of the boards community. I forgot unpopular opinions were frowned upon and subject to mass ridicule and name-calling. I should've known better, honestly. But hey, at the end of the day, Riot doesn't give a jack fuck about you or your thoughts, and I have nothing to lose while you can continue crying over everything Riot does that you don't like. F off.

hallfro3 votes

I agree that some form of LP reduction would be nice.

However, claiming that AFK's reduce your theoretical 50% winrate is statistically wrong- the likelihood of having an AFK on your team is the exact same as the likelihood he is on the enemy team.

alcatrazEscapee3 votes

In fact, if you assume that you yourself don't afk as much as a random player, the chance of having an afk on your team is less than having one on the enemy team. Meaning theoretically: afks boost your winrate over 50%, despite the randomness of their appearance.

Emerald Fang1 votes

I see.

hallfro1 votes

An excellent point! AFKs are without a doubt frustrating still.

XDargosX2 votes

I didn't read the entire thing, but hell yea it sounds like a good idea. Kinda harsh playing ranked and having your team afk.. an lp loss reduction of ANY kind would be awesome. Please don't play ranked if you're lagging out, have to leave soon, or whatever other reason to afk... really sucks for the team.

Emerald Fang3 votes

Thank you! Yeah, I know. Especially in lower ELO, people lag out or don't have time very frequently.

Primal Fear1 votes

In all honesty, I was Gold V this week and got to Gold II with an 80% winrate. I know that Gold isn't the bottom of the barrel, but I am not the best player and even I can carry games in Gold.

Carrying games in low ELO shouldn't be hard, even if someone AFKs. If you can't carry your team, then you belong at the ELO you are.

ReySolomon1 votes

Depends on the champion i'm sure you master yi?

Primal Fear1 votes

I actually mostly play Miss Fortune. You could've just simply figured that one out yourself.

ReySolomon1 votes

I could of but i'm actually lazy to check srry

FilDaFunk1 votes

There I was thinking this was a team game

devdev4631 votes

All this would do is inflate people's elo slightly higher than it should be due to the fact that you have greater control over the amount of leavers on your team (you) than you do on the enemy team.

Cavesloth1 votes

Well thought out and well put. I approve.

Hackelele1 votes

Afks need a bigger ban timer especially when its intentional ive had games where someones playing then say there going for food or something mid game in ranked. My last 6 promos ive had a afk every SINGLE game which screws you over. ADC's normally while winning.

Then you get the opponents saying get skill, EZ and all this 5v4. They should have some unsportsmanlike penalty.(lose autofill protect or something)

Emerald Fang1 votes

I completely agree with this. 20 minutes is a good amount but it's so easy to wait out and there's no pain attached. There needs to be a short ban for these people:

Warning 24-hour ban (can't play games but can access the shop etc) 48-hour ban 72-hour ban for each subsequent offense

DaFluffyPotato1 votes

I do feel like there should be some sort of compensation for having an AFKer or an intentional feeder(which is kind of hard to prove, which I understand), I don't feel like the time frame should be 5 minutes. The new client can be really slow and if you have a brownout it's almost impossible to wait for your internet to start up, log in, reconnect, and load in 5 minutes. I'd say that 10 minutes would be fair. It would also encourage players with an AFKer to keep going and not immediately surrender(in hopes of LP compensation) and either wait for their teammate to come back or for the 10 minutes.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Yeah I'm going to change this to 10 minutes.

idontgiveabother1 votes

I made a thread similar to this but not as well structured and it got swept under the rug. I suggested more harsher changes such as the person afking gets a heavy amount of lp loss and no one else loses any (since it was out of their control, no reason to punish that). That would also stop people from trying to abuse the system.

Also losses shouldn't count in promos if their are afks, I had to deal with that getting into platinum multiple times. I do like your ideas I just don't think they should be so lenient but I support anything that will help this.

Kingdom Corn1 votes

I deranked twice from silver 4 because of once an afk second time was a really salty adc that ran down mid. Feels bad man I wish riot would add a thing where if your team has 1 AFK in your game then it is not possible for you to derank.

Project Riven1 votes

This has been proposed many times, it's not going to happen.

Emerald Fang4 votes

I'll pay you 10 dollars to rename yourself to negative Nancy.

0ne Trickz yi1 votes

theres a problem like others have said it would lead to bullying people out of a game for LP What needs to happen is BIGGER LP losses for people who go AFK

Emerald Fang1 votes

This is a flawed argument. If people are being bullied and they don't mute their team, it's their problem. This would rarely happen and with every new feature there will be some sort of toxicity but the amount it would reduce is more than the amount it would create.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Why are we pretending afks are a low elo thing? I started in silver. Peaked at d2. Currently p3. Dcs have been about the same rate, at least from my point of view for years. The higher you get, though, the more likely you'll have a rage quitter.

Emerald Fang1 votes

It doesn't have to be lower ELO, but low ELO suffers from the 500-ping player whereas high ELO likely doesn't as much.

Cavesloth1 votes

Well to be fair ALOT of us don't know what happens in higher elo, its not that we're pretending it doesn't happen there, we just don't know it happens because we've never been there :(

StoRm491 votes

I just played a game in which if I won, I would've been in promos. But noooo. My top laner had to AFK in the middle of the game. It's simply ridiculous that we all have to lose the same amount of lp for losing a game with an AFK. This leads to us all having to waste more time trying to get lp. It's blatantly retarded that RIOT hasn't implemented a system in which AFKs that occur during game result in lp reduction. I'm sure there are a lot of other players who can relate to my frustration. This is simply stupid that we lose so much lp due to an AFK and RIOT should honestly do something useful for once and fix this.

Niaphim1 votes

Then you should also gain (33%) less LP against a team with an AFK. Only then will it be fair, otherwise you are just inflating LP gain without properly offsetting it.

Emerald Fang1 votes

This is actually a good idea. I will add it.

JESUSSAYSNO1 votes

No. You have lower odds of getting an AFK on your team if you arent the toxic AFKer. there's 5 players on the enemy team, 4 other players on your team. Enemies are 20% more likely to have the AFK, again, assuming you arent the problem.

AFKs hurt the enemy more than they hurt you. Minimizing LP losses for akfers would only result in rank bloat, with more bad players in higher ranks.

Your rank is the result of your ranked games. There's very little that can massively skew your rank if you play enough games. Outlying games that don't fit your trends are just that, outliars. They're not the norm. Your rank is the result of your play.

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